Doctor Archive
Thread: An Honest and Open discussion of Buffing. (LONG)
Call me crazy, but for the PVE environment, I would much prefer the developers allocate some time on upgrading AI to increase the challenge level instead of nerfing buff's. And I mean AI, not increasing HAM and resists to infinity. The reason that has happened is because it is cheaper and more cost effective to have developers change those numbers then have them program and test new AI sequences.
I like buffs, I don't think they should be changed at all. What is boring is the extremely predictable AI of all the critter/ NPC's in-game. Currently, you don't take much damage in PVE because the first or second shot done by an NPC is a special, then they do 8-12 regular attacks, and another special. Most master elite combat prof's can take out up to 22k HAM NPC's before they have a chance to get the heavy shots thrown at you. As for critters, the AI is simply close range and attack, unless they have specials, then the same sequence for NPC's occur's. So of course buff's seem overpowered in PVE, but I would much rather the change take place on the side of AI then the player (Doctor) side. Give mob's more specials, more block/ dodge/ counterattack mods, more interaction and coordination, etc etc etc.
As for PVP... well, the coding for the power of buff packswas there from the start, the 75% PVP damage reduction was put in a few months later. Not many doctors were running around buffing for 3k by the time some professions were hitting 2-3k a hit. Maybe remove OR reduce the PVP damage reduction to say 50%+/- instead of changing/ nerfing buffs??
Either way, the answer in my opinion doesn't reside in buff's or armor, it resides in poor AI and a poorly thought out PVP game engine.
Ha'ole Lolo
Master Doctor
Gooney wrote:
Even the combat revamp cant change the weighted advantage that Doc buffs give versus an unbuffed player.
3k HAM > 800 HAM.
So regardless as to what the combat revamp does Buffing has to be addressed.
For all we know the combat revamp might increase all player HAMs to average at 3000. Should this happen, buffing itself needs not be addressed in any way and it is already affected in a major way. There are plenty of other possibilities too.
One other point I think you made somewhere along the discussion in this thread was that buffing income for doctorswould not in your opinion be affected by reducing the buffs to say, 800. They're still the best buffs around, sure, but do you honestly think all the players that currently go and get buffed would do the same if the best buff power was 800? Such a buff doesn't really help you much in combat. It's like C buffpacks now...and do you know anyone who buys C buffs to go hunting? At least not with a price of anywhere near 10k I'm sure you don't. And this WILL affect the doctors income, which I'm really hoping the devswon't touch.
Anyway, like I said, it's way too early for this "nerf buffs" discussion. We will just have to wait and see how the planned combat revamp works out.
Some people like to play solo, I am one of those. I enjoy my group hunts, but it is not always possible for me to group. The current buff system allows me to take on a lot of high end content alone. I would not dare say it's a breeze either. I went to the NS labour camp yesterday, and got killed in the first room. I am TKM/master doc, had 2k buffs on.
I realise you are bored with the game, but please realise not everyone is as elite a combat person as you. For some of us to enjoy the high end content we need this level of help. If I want to take on even higher end content, I will organise a guild hunt for the weekend. There are several people in my guild who are able to enjoy more high end content thanks to buffs, and if they were to be nerfed, I'm sure they would leave the game unhappy that they were unable to experience most of it.
As a few have said previously, if you don't like the buff system and want a challenge, please don't use buffs. No need to cry nerf justbecause you can beat the system.
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Some people like to play solo, I am one of those. I enjoy my group hunts, but it is not always possible for me to group. The current buff system allows me to take on a lot of high end content alone. I would not dare say it's a breeze either. I went to the NS labour camp yesterday, and got killed in the first room. I am TKM/master doc, had 2k buffs on.
I realise you are bored with the game, but please realise not everyone is as elite a combat person as you. For some of us to enjoy the high end content we need this level of help. If I want to take on even higher end content, I will organise a guild hunt for the weekend. There are several people in my guild who are able to enjoy more high end content thanks to buffs, and if they were to be nerfed, I'm sure they would leave the game unhappy that they were unable to experience most of it.
As a few have said previously, if you don't like the buff system and want a challenge, please don't use buffs. No need to cry nerf justbecause you can beat the system.
Howdy Mate,
I agree whole heartedly with your post...its just not relevant given the preceeding posts in this thread.
-I am not bored with the game, but many are as there isnt much challenge for a fully armored/buffed elite.
-I do like and use buffs.
-I do believe that the current buffing system is unbalancing.
I am not specifically calling for a nerf, although I do believe one will be done. I was hoping (if you bothered to read the very first post you would know this), to get a consensus of other docs so that we could give valid, coherent input prior to the combat revamp.
However, I see now that the vast majority are in favor of the current system and so being are setting themselves up for a terrible disappointment once the combat revamp gets implemented. No one knows what that will be though so I figured a rational suggestion by docs to devs via correspondent would be helpful.
Nevermind, I'm sorry I brought it up.
-Gooney
Eurynome wrote:
One other point I think you made somewhere along the discussion in this thread was that buffing income for doctorswould not in your opinion be affected by reducing the buffs to say, 800. They're still the best buffs around, sure, but do you honestly think all the players that currently go and get buffed would do the same if the best buff power was 800? Such a buff doesn't really help you much in combat. It's like C buffpacks now...and do you know anyone who buys C buffs to go hunting? At least not with a price of anywhere near 10k I'm sure you don't. And this WILL affect the doctors income, which I'm really hoping the devswon't touch.
Anyway, like I said, it's way too early for this "nerf buffs" discussion. We will just have to wait and see how the planned combat revamp works out.
Greets,
1) Yes, I do honestly believe that folks will still pay for 800-1000 buffs like they do today. Players will always pay to have the "Best" of what ever a thing is. Not only that but 800-1000 buffs as I explained earlier are still 2 or 3 times as good as food buffs or spice...even more so if you consider the duration. A buff of this type will still effectivly double your stats.
2) People dont buy C buffs because doctors dont use em. Production costs for a C buff are only marginally smaller than for a D buff, however a C currently is often less than half as powerful as a D. I used Cs all the time while I was skilling up, having completed the crafting tree first they were the logical choice. I even used A's and B's early on.
But again the purpose of the original post wasn't a call for a nerf per se, but acall totake up the discussion. IMO a nerf is ineveitable, I was hopping for a little constructive discourse...guess I should have known better.
-Gooney
I did read your post, I am a master doc myself and have been for a very long time, and that is my consensus,a long winded way of saying, there is nothing wrong withthe power of doc buffsfrom my perspective, and it seems, from most others.
Your post reads more like you want the game to be more challenging because you find it too easy, and while I respect that you have an opinion, perhaps I made my opinion sound more like an attack? If so I apologise. I see no evidence of the system being unbalancing. I do see evidence of your ability to beat it the system though through good skills. Have you tried killing everything on the corvette yet? Have you succeeded?
My guild does not find the current top content to be too easy, and I certainly don't. Rancor hunts cause my guild problems fully buffed, though a small party of us have succeeded on the corvette, we were pretty lucky too. Any kind of reduction to the buffing system will simply put this content beyond our ability. Perhaps that is what the devs want, and if so they will change it. If they do change it, I hope they inform us what % of the player base they expect to reach the high end content of the game. They've always said this game was for the casual player.
I see no reason to mess with the system.
It'd be a synch to implement too...
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
I did read your post, I am a master doc myself and have been for a very long time, and that is my consensus,a long winded way of saying, there is nothing wrong withthe power of doc buffsfrom my perspective, and it seems, from most others.
Your post reads more like you want the game to be more challenging because you find it too easy, and while I respect that you have an opinion, perhaps I made my opinion sound more like an attack? If so I apologise. I see no evidence of the system being unbalancing. I do see evidence of your ability to beat it the system though through good skills. Have you tried killing everything on the corvette yet? Have you succeeded?
My guild does not find the current top content to be too easy, and I certainly don't. Rancor hunts cause my guild problems fully buffed, though a small party of us have succeeded on the corvette, we were pretty lucky too. Any kind of reduction to the buffing system will simply put this content beyond our ability. Perhaps that is what the devs want, and if so they will change it. If they do change it, I hope they inform us what % of the player base they expect to reach the high end content of the game. They've always said this game was for the casual player.
I see no reason to mess with the system.
Here's the problem with your discussion and your request to exclude armor from the equation.
YOU CAN'T
Buffing is ONE way in this game that you can 'enhance' or better equip your character.
Here are a few others.
BE'd clothes
NIce weapon
Droid
Armor
Chef food
Entertainment buffs
Stimpacks
Creature Pets
Faction Pets
Grouping (get a few friends together and you will kill easier)
All of these things make you more powerful and more successful in the game.
DO I think doctor buffs are one of the more powerful influences on the players experience, yes...
But I have fought buffed, WITHOUT a few of the above things and I WAS NOT invincible, actually I was getting my arse kicked.
Don't forget that when you have no combat skills, ie. damage mitigation and defense bonuses, you will get damaged more. So are combat classes to uber too now because of that?
I think we stop talking about buffs until the combat rebalance comes out.
This will actually highlight your point a little.
I have mastered all 32 professions in the grindfor jedi, and I believe that the casual gamer would not get far in many of these professionswithout the aid of the current buffs. After achieving jedi,I decided to go back to TKM/Doc, and started hunting the savage quenker at unarmed 3, fully buffed, unarmoured. I died within 30 seconds. After that I wore 80% kinetic resist composite, and started using stim b's to help me out. I did die again later on but i killed about 4 before i did
As you may have noted, savage quenker HAM has now been doubled, and if it had of been like that from the start I would not have taken them on at UA3, let alone survived even buffed and armoured. I believe this was a bug.
I don't see that as being all powerful though.
Gooney wrote:
MasterNerfSlayer,
Its not about being all powerful. Its about being overpowered.
Perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong. Maybe it was the intention of the devs from the beginning to allow Pre-Master combat classes solo 10-20k missions. Odd that they should implement the "Consider" at all in that case.
-Gooney