Doctor Archive

I don't think the issue of nerfing buffs has been brought up as the answer for making PvE more challenging. PvE becoming more challenging happens to be a side effect of reducing buffs that answers a common complaint. The real issue is the stratification that occurs between buffed and unbuffed characters. If you are not buffed(doc,food,spice) you for the most part cannot compete with someone who is, especially if they are wearing highly protective armor that otherwise could not even be worn.

Many are tired of seeing half of the population in the same type of armor and the guy buffed, stuffed, spiced, and drunk Imp in 90% who can fight all of Anchorhead be cause there is no doctor available to buff(or the factional reverse stiuation). You could even blame doc buffs in part for makingstun weapons and mind attacksthe uber PvPattacks of choice as they allow heavy compostie suits that are all but invulnerable to other attacks and and are so suberior to entertainer buffs that mind is an even more attractive target.

The issue at hand is whether or not buffs should be the necessity they have become. Reducing them to a point of balance where they are a valuable edge but not required will obviously reduce demand for doc buffs. In effect, doctors enjoy a near monopoly over anyone who wants to fight, especially in PvP. Certainly there are alot in this thread who say it should be left as is but, keep in mind what forum this is. (Yes, I have a doctor character)

The question raised about what HAMs we are supposed to be playing with is a good one.I think looking at the enter buffs and where they total out to could be one place to look. Once uber buffs and armor became commonplace, wookiees became obsolete and the encumbrance hierarchy of armor became meaningless.The conning and mission systems do not seem to be able to deal with such large buffs. The buffs used to be random you would usually have one or two weak buffs. With the new system the average seems to be considerably higher and the issue not surprisingly has come to the forefront.

With the upcoming revamp there is probably little nerfing that should be done until after it hits. IfI were to have my way, one pack would buff both secondaries of a given HAM bar for the same amount as they do now but it would be divided in half and applied to each stat. This would make encumbrance matter again and reduce the outrageous levels of regeneration possible while compensating Doctors with lowered costs to offset the probable loss in sales. Improve some of the lesser used armor types with one really good resist type like ubese and we might even start to see some variation in the armor being worn.

SakeO

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SakeO wrote:

Unfortunately, reprogramming AI and reducing the PvP damage reduction will do little to the fact that it is prohibitively difficult to for an unbuffed player to even threaten an otherwise identical but buffed player. This is especially true if you are not a rifleman with a jawa rifle or CM and high resist composite is involved. Yes, player tactics can make a difference but, 2k+ buffs(especially to secondaries) tip the balance so far that even multiple opponents against 1 seem not to matter.

Hopefully the combat revamp will adress this issue but, if it is something similar to the current system, I would ask to see secondary buffs cut to roughly half the current level. If you want to keep the docs happy, make it one enhance pack for the two secondaries of each bar and split the curent total buff in half among the two stats. They would have their expenses cut by a third and would likely be able to charge most of what they do now.

SakeO

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Well, there's the thing I see in almost every "nerf" post on the boards... a PVP vs PVE difference in gameplay. I am starting to wonder if the two are compatible in the same gaming environment, or more specifically, is SWG capable of handling both... and maintaing subscribers to keep it alive.

But to your first point specifically, why should a non-buffed player have an edge over a buffed one? I read on these Doctor boards once a great statement... "maybe we arent suppose to play with 1k HAM." It's that forced interdependency thing, where it is a Doc's role to put player's at the stats the dev's perhaps intended us to be at. I mean, Carniverous Nuna's have more HAM then players do unbuffed . Player HAM is pathetic unbuffed, and I also doubt it was intended for us to injure ourselves more in using specials then the damage we are dealing. Buff's get rid of that issue.

If most player's are wanting buff's nerfed because PVE is boring, I think the problem is the mob's AI. If player's want buff's nerfed because of no damage taken in PVP, I think the problem is damage reduction. Either way, I don't see how reducing or eliminating buff's are going to make things more interesting or exciting.Mob's will still be boring and PVP will be the same, though fights might last a few seconds longer. On the other hand, upgrading AI and tweaking the PVP game engine will make for a better overall game. Oh, and more content would be nice too... but that's another thread .

Ha'ole Lolo

Master Doctor

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Daisame wrote:

You do not appear to be aware that the combat rebalance is more than just how much damage your D18 pistol does. It includes things like HAM, specials, Armor, and more. I would seriously wait until the combat rebalance happens and then, if needed bring this discussion up again.

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Message Edited by Gooney on 05-06-2004 12:44 PM

Message Edited by Gooney on 05-06-2004 12:45 PM

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Gooney wrote:

The overall premis I brought up is that the current system is detrimental to the game.

-Gooney

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Again, not much more than any other profession.

Our current percentage of altering peoples stats over their base should be carried over to the comabt revamp.

Regardless if our buffs hit for 200 points each, that 200 points should carry the player as far as our 2400's currently do.

The combat revamp will address how better to knock those stats down, but that is not our concern. We pump 'em up, and it's the Dev's job to knock 'em back down.

They need to make AI, smarter, reconfigure calculations, etc, all the things they claim they are currently doing.

Wait till the revamps over Gooney

BTW the direct answer to your post is highlighted in green above.

this does need to be talked about i think ever doc will agree to that but i just dont see how you can say this, that or the other should happen untill we know what is happening with the HAM and how it will be set out.

right now we have 3 main HAM bars with 2 subsections, so for arguments sake lets say 'we' all decide that it would be a good idea to say make a 2k buff to the main 3 stats as a maxmum and a 1k buff is the maximum to all of the substats, then the revamp comes along the dev's have changed the HAM setup to something like this. (this is just an example btw i dont think this will happen)

you have 1 health bar and 1 subsection and then 1 bar with no subsections that is only used up when you use your special attacks. the health bar are your hit points, the subsection determins how much encumbrance your armor has and the effects it has to your specials moves bar,as for as buffs go you can only buff the health bar and the subsection the spacial moves bar cannot be buffed.

now all the descusion we have had and things we have agreed upon to be good ideas are now useless and we have to start all over again.

so yes i think this needs to be talked about but untill we are told how the new system will work and told how the HAM is set out and what has changed what can and cant be buffed, how buffs will effect the new HAM system i dont see how we can begin to have asensible discussion on the subject.

Message Edited by Tiberian74 on 05-06-2004 05:34 AM

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Gooney wrote:

Even the combat revamp cant change the weighted advantage that Doc buffs give versus an unbuffed player.

3k HAM > 800 HAM.

So regardless as to what the combat revamp does Buffing has to be addressed.

What I am interested in is what other Docs think should be done. I ask because there is no way to objectivly look at the current buffing system and draw the conclusion that it is good for the game.

-Gooney

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