Doctor Archive
Thread: Buffs possible REDUCTION of business?
pircio
Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:50 am
#27
well let me throw my 2 cents into this argument now.
I spend about 2 to 3 hours a night buffing people outside of coronet on valcyn server. I charge 10k per, each buff takes about 1.5 minutes. that's 1.2 million credits a NIGHT i can make. that's 120 buffs.
before i used to buy my buffs, i would spend 300k on the amount of buffpacks i would need to accomplish this goal, 60k on a crate of bivoli, and 30k on a crate of brandy.
total expenses, 390k, thats 800k profit per night.
yes, i made a lot of money in a week, i spent that money buying resources and paying for extractors and factories and making smart moves in the forums. now my expenses are 90k, now i make over 1.1 mil a night if i go out to buff. for 3 hrs worth of work in a party group do you honestly think i could make 1.1 mil on res and stim? not a chance. sure it might be boring just sitting there, but all those people benefit off of you and can do whatever they want on their own or in groups, i've had a lot of good conversations w/ people in line, other docs, and have met a lot of good contacts with resources, and hookups for me. i probably have a handful of people,3 or 4, that tell me everytime i get on asking whats up and if they can get a buff.
so for sitting at my computer, and just macro buffing making money it might be boring for you, and sometimes for me it is too. but i'm making money, decent money, and with that money i will start my next project which is med crafting in bulk. i'm sitting on over 100k of good resources and 5 factories, all because of buffing. i started with 50k for cash and worked my way up, took a month, but it was worth it.i love thinking about all the extra XP and monsters sleign because of me, even though i wasn't there.
by taking out buffs its not just stat increases, its cashflow and crafting. anyone can go novice medic and use stim b's that'll heal all in 2 hits, but what is a DOCTOR to do after stim B's? run around curing wounds for tips? don't get me wrong, igo out with my friends because they need a doc, because even fully buffed there's stuff we can't kill.
SpicyChani
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:05 am
#28
tomakawk wrote:
sorry to say this but ur argument doesnt realy hold true-
iiv ran into a fight with jantas amoured up with buffs of over 2500 and they have still almost killed me
I find janta, unarmord, buffed 2200, and brandy, Sometiems without VK's just to keep from dulling them. What the heck are you doing wrong? Even with 4 Janta's on me, i rarely have to use a stim.
captenjonny
Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:22 am
#29
The constant cry of the buff-nerfer:
"Buffs are killing the game because they make grouping unnecessary."
First I think there is nothing wrong with the buffs/armor/food as they currently exist. I recognize that there is a contingent of players who want to group, longing for the days when grouping was not an option. I do not understand why they still can not do this? Buffing and armor use is an option. Choose not to use them and PRESTO! there you have it. It's not that simple though because in order to do this you must first INVEST EFFORT to pull together like minded players, set as time to meet, set a time to play, hammer out the loot divisions etc. etc.etc.
What the buff-nerfers want is to force EVERYONE else to play in thier preferred style when obviously, by the sheer number of solo groupers, few want to play in that way. Because they do not want to put out the effort necessary to play in groups they opt instead to flood these forums trying to convince the devs that forced grouping on everything over a kreetle is a good idea.
Again the point is made that the corvette, DWB, and caves exist for the sole purpose of group activity. I hear stories of people soloing these things but there are ver, very few of them. If they can fix the battlefields then again this opens another great grouping possibility.
I am not concerned about SOE. They know who pays the bills and they will not nerf buffs/armor/food and risk losing vas majority of currently satisfied customers who are not power gamers, who get into the game for an hour and deserve content.
"Buffs are killing the game because they make grouping unnecessary."
First I think there is nothing wrong with the buffs/armor/food as they currently exist. I recognize that there is a contingent of players who want to group, longing for the days when grouping was not an option. I do not understand why they still can not do this? Buffing and armor use is an option. Choose not to use them and PRESTO! there you have it. It's not that simple though because in order to do this you must first INVEST EFFORT to pull together like minded players, set as time to meet, set a time to play, hammer out the loot divisions etc. etc.etc.
What the buff-nerfers want is to force EVERYONE else to play in thier preferred style when obviously, by the sheer number of solo groupers, few want to play in that way. Because they do not want to put out the effort necessary to play in groups they opt instead to flood these forums trying to convince the devs that forced grouping on everything over a kreetle is a good idea.
Again the point is made that the corvette, DWB, and caves exist for the sole purpose of group activity. I hear stories of people soloing these things but there are ver, very few of them. If they can fix the battlefields then again this opens another great grouping possibility.
I am not concerned about SOE. They know who pays the bills and they will not nerf buffs/armor/food and risk losing vas majority of currently satisfied customers who are not power gamers, who get into the game for an hour and deserve content.
HEckhart
Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:35 am
#30
I miss group hunting, I remember back in the days before people realised the power of buffs, when the encumberance stats on the armor really mattered. It was really fun to go out hunting in large groups, healing and rezzing. I remember when people were at the starports shouting "Looking for hunting group" Instead of "Looking for solo group".
One of the main reasonsI dont like to go group hunting today, besides with peopleI really know and trust, is the "first click-first-loot" system. The group-loot message helped out a bit against the ninja looters, but what really would be nice issome kind of alternative looting sytem where the players take turns on the looting rights, or a designated looter or something like that.There could bea selection of looting right systemsthat is available for the group leader who decides which system should apply to the particular group.
-Hermann
weshutch
Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:16 pm
#31
I'm a bit disturbed by all the nerf-cry's for Docs. Most of it is coming from people who want to feel needed in a group or think that they make the game too easy. Two things:
1)Try soloing the DWB/Corvett/NS elders without any medic skills or a medic around. Then tell me that Docs/Medics aren't needed anymore. I personally have never seen a group hunt going after high-end content where a Doc or CM wasn't more than welcome (and didnt have to go through dozens of stims).
2) If you really want to play "like in the good old days"....What on earth is stopping you??? Get a group together, go on a hunt. Buff for only 1500 or not at all. Heal to your hearts content. This game is whatever YOU make it, so if there are so many people that want that old-school feel of absolutly needing a medic around on a hunt...then find each other and DO IT. I just dont see the logic to thinking that buffs need to be nerfed in order for you to play without them.
1)Try soloing the DWB/Corvett/NS elders without any medic skills or a medic around. Then tell me that Docs/Medics aren't needed anymore. I personally have never seen a group hunt going after high-end content where a Doc or CM wasn't more than welcome (and didnt have to go through dozens of stims).
2) If you really want to play "like in the good old days"....What on earth is stopping you??? Get a group together, go on a hunt. Buff for only 1500 or not at all. Heal to your hearts content. This game is whatever YOU make it, so if there are so many people that want that old-school feel of absolutly needing a medic around on a hunt...then find each other and DO IT. I just dont see the logic to thinking that buffs need to be nerfed in order for you to play without them.
HEckhart
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:03 pm
#32
weshutch wrote:
I'm a bit disturbed by all the nerf-cry's for Docs. Most of it is coming from people who want to feel needed in a group or think that they make the game too easy. Two things:
1)Try soloing the DWB/Corvett/NS elders without any medic skills or a medic around. Then tell me that Docs/Medics aren't needed anymore. I personally have never seen a group hunt going after high-end content where a Doc or CM wasn't more than welcome (and didnt have to go through dozens of stims).
2) If you really want to play "like in the good old days"....What on earth is stopping you??? Get a group together, go on a hunt. Buff for only 1500 or not at all. Heal to your hearts content. This game is whatever YOU make it, so if there are so many people that want that old-school feel of absolutly needing a medic around on a hunt...then find each other and DO IT. I just dont see the logic to thinking that buffs need to be nerfed in order for you to play without them.
Good point, I shall try that out.
Homever I suspect that things will change after the combat balance anyway.
evfields
Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:56 pm
#33
It's good to see this discussion taking off 
I think my original point was a bit misunderstood - I don't propose taking buffs out of the game, nor food, nor armor. These (almost) unarguably makes any combat character a God. Personally, I don't see the fun in destroying everything.
I know I'm no game developer and this would likely be extremely flawed, but here is a hypothetical solution:
Doctors buff health/action primaries to up to 200%, tops.
Secondaries cannot be buffed.
Therefore armor is brought in line, because all the sudden encumbrance means something.
But because primaries can be buffed, stim E's and the like mean something, and all the sudden doctors are in demand. People need their damage healed. Also, with the current buffs (disregarding poison/disease buffs) if you get say a poison that ticks for 100, it's no biggie. You'll regen it in hafl a second. But if secondary buffs were taken out, people would need doctors in the field to heal poisons.
While I could understand why some may cry nerf if secondary buffs were taken out (not that anything like that will happen until the combat revamp), saying that 2/3 of a doctor's key ability was taken away, I would disagree. 2/3 of buffing would be taken away, but the use of stims, rezzes, state heals, etc would go up, likely just making doctors more useful.
My .02
Osarz, I miss our old Piket hunts with you the CM and Epoque also
Ananais2
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:26 pm
#34
wow one stared for pointing out doc buffs arnt the be all and end all of overpowerdness in the game 
and yes that is a real word!
kikyom
Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:30 am
#35
believe it or not ... i was a doctor right when the buff system was introduced. I don't really disagree buffs should be downside. however i like to point out its a choice. you choose to play buffed or un buffed. you choose to play solo or grouped. no one forces you to do so. yes the economy is wild and its easy for a combat player to rake in 150k in credits in a matter of a few missions.
yes it makes the game more solo able a venture i tend to enjoy. I dont want to have to group for everything. Thats why i like the idea of high end content, i.e. death watch bunker. not saying its not plausable to solo it but in most manners its often grouped. do you seriously want it to go back everyone hunting squals, doctors chasing people to heal 300 health? Thats insane.
buffs have been downgraded once and everyone buffs are generally about the same. same thing with armor, its a choice ...
there is always content you have to want it to seek it...
Brainplay
Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:22 am
#36
Officially it was buffs AND armor thats going to be changed.
Does that mean reduced? NO ONE KNOWS
Whats the % range on the armor then? NO ONE KNOWS
How much are they going to reduce buffs? NO ONE KNOWS
If they reduce armor and buffs will they tone down npc's? NO ONE KNOWS
If they reduce armor and buffs will people have to group to be effective against stuff tougher than meatlumps? YES
Is grouping in an MMORPG an important thing besides getting better paying missions? YES
Silvarran
Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:58 am
#37
Well this is a reply I posted for another post here:
The specials are going to have a Timer on them, like a few seconds delay before you can use them again...look in the in devolpment or in concept forums..they have also discussed nerfing the armor and buffs but no specifics and this is all talk about the combat upgrade which wont be in a few weeks....My guess, and its only a guess, is that Doc buffs will be more along the lines of what Musician/Dancer Bufss are like for the mind pool now...as for armor..40-60% caps I am guessing....The devs discuss this stuff in the forums I listed you just have to dig a bit sometimes to get to it.
Taking buffs totally out of the game would make being a doctor almost useless...Medics can do almost everything a doctor can do except for a few things, mainly be rez if the buffs are gone....
trifidac
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:54 am
#38
There is a simple solution now for people who think buffs are ruining the game. Buy JTL. There is no one sitting outside coronet offering to buff your x-wing. No need to worry about getting a rez, because there is no such thing in space. The other benefit is that Jedi die out there just as easily as everyone else, regardless of their Jedi ranking.
MaherBot
Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:24 pm
#39
Let me explain this from each side., first the people who like armor, buffs and stats as they are now:
You people are greedy. . . simple as that, you know why? Cause you like Solo groups, you like 30k a mission, you like killing large mobs alone so YOU get the drop. Ex. Nightsister, Krayts, GDK, Lord Nayx, Sith faction etc. You dont want the system to change cause you dont play for content, you play for money and items. You assume this is fun but you clearly have no idea what a challenge is or the thrill of killing somthing that was Really hard to kill, when I say hard I dont mean it has 100k health compared to your 2-3k health, I mean it near kill or even incaped you few times. You dont like fighting things that are stronger then you. You like to be able to kill stuff quickly and move to the next one. All that goes through your thick skulls is MONEY, ITEMS, MONEY, ITEMS, MONEY, MR. BIG SHOT SOLOER. You know excatly who you are and you dont want this to change cause you will have to start relying on others and that scares the hell ou of you knowing you have to share drops.
From the people who dont like armor, buffs and stats as they are and need to be removed or atleast modified:
I agree with these people, I am a Master Doctor/ Pikemen, I have been this excat class for 15 months now and havent changed a thing. Buffs and armor are overpowered but you cant take them out of the game. You people need to realize that although they dull out the action and the thrill of game, in CERTAIN cases they are needed. NS, Krayts, etc BUT only in the case to keep a person alive and going and not solo the darn thing. Yes I remember back when the game came out and going with groups of 20+ north of Wayfar to kill Krayts when they use ot spawn up there. OF course being a pikemen, with weak buffs, weak weapons(there were no LVAs at this time btw), no comp armor and running at a Krayt was sucide, but it was damn fun. Sure there were arguments over the drops, but you know what the ones arguing back then are the Solo group people now I bet. Now that they can do it alone so they dont want to go back to "the good/bad old days." They are going to lower buffs and armor in the combat revamp which is just fine with me. The only reason we have mobs with a Quarter million health or more is cause of the current buff and armor system, once they revamp those they will have to revamp mobs soon after.
Now lookin at this from the Doctor side, there are 2 side to this. Doctors in it for the Content of being of Doctor, that is crafting, healing, being a support class and being ok with this. Then there are the other people the recently to became Master Doctors, who are ONLY in it for the money.
Now the veteran Doctors I dont think they will mind at all with any change ot the system. We will still find a way to get by and still play a large role in PVP, PVE and other combat related stuff.
Now the noob wanna be Doctors who just recently got Master Doctor, the second they change the system these people are gone, they will drop the class and find other ways to make cash and complain saying "what did they do the to buffs" and "they ruined the class". Honestly these people should drop dead. I cant stand people who are only in somthing when the market or class in this case is hot. Ex. of this would be CH at Game Opening, Once they made this class EQUAL(NOT NERFED) with the other combats classes all the money and easy combat people dropped out. I personally love to sit down next to these money doctors in Cnet while they are charging 15-50k for buffs and offer my buffs of equal or better quality for only 8k.
Anyone complaining right now about them changing the system is a Greedy, Easy Money no content, Solo group guy.
Anyone who is ok with the changes coming is playing for Content not money for the most part and is most likly a veteran doctor who has stuck it out throught thick and thin.
My opinion here will for sure piss off some people, for those who need to Vent feel free to Email me in game. My characters name is Allandor Evermore, on Starsider Server. So there . . .
You people are greedy. . . simple as that, you know why? Cause you like Solo groups, you like 30k a mission, you like killing large mobs alone so YOU get the drop. Ex. Nightsister, Krayts, GDK, Lord Nayx, Sith faction etc. You dont want the system to change cause you dont play for content, you play for money and items. You assume this is fun but you clearly have no idea what a challenge is or the thrill of killing somthing that was Really hard to kill, when I say hard I dont mean it has 100k health compared to your 2-3k health, I mean it near kill or even incaped you few times. You dont like fighting things that are stronger then you. You like to be able to kill stuff quickly and move to the next one. All that goes through your thick skulls is MONEY, ITEMS, MONEY, ITEMS, MONEY, MR. BIG SHOT SOLOER. You know excatly who you are and you dont want this to change cause you will have to start relying on others and that scares the hell ou of you knowing you have to share drops.
From the people who dont like armor, buffs and stats as they are and need to be removed or atleast modified:
I agree with these people, I am a Master Doctor/ Pikemen, I have been this excat class for 15 months now and havent changed a thing. Buffs and armor are overpowered but you cant take them out of the game. You people need to realize that although they dull out the action and the thrill of game, in CERTAIN cases they are needed. NS, Krayts, etc BUT only in the case to keep a person alive and going and not solo the darn thing. Yes I remember back when the game came out and going with groups of 20+ north of Wayfar to kill Krayts when they use ot spawn up there. OF course being a pikemen, with weak buffs, weak weapons(there were no LVAs at this time btw), no comp armor and running at a Krayt was sucide, but it was damn fun. Sure there were arguments over the drops, but you know what the ones arguing back then are the Solo group people now I bet. Now that they can do it alone so they dont want to go back to "the good/bad old days." They are going to lower buffs and armor in the combat revamp which is just fine with me. The only reason we have mobs with a Quarter million health or more is cause of the current buff and armor system, once they revamp those they will have to revamp mobs soon after.
Now lookin at this from the Doctor side, there are 2 side to this. Doctors in it for the Content of being of Doctor, that is crafting, healing, being a support class and being ok with this. Then there are the other people the recently to became Master Doctors, who are ONLY in it for the money.
Now the veteran Doctors I dont think they will mind at all with any change ot the system. We will still find a way to get by and still play a large role in PVP, PVE and other combat related stuff.
Now the noob wanna be Doctors who just recently got Master Doctor, the second they change the system these people are gone, they will drop the class and find other ways to make cash and complain saying "what did they do the to buffs" and "they ruined the class". Honestly these people should drop dead. I cant stand people who are only in somthing when the market or class in this case is hot. Ex. of this would be CH at Game Opening, Once they made this class EQUAL(NOT NERFED) with the other combats classes all the money and easy combat people dropped out. I personally love to sit down next to these money doctors in Cnet while they are charging 15-50k for buffs and offer my buffs of equal or better quality for only 8k.
Anyone complaining right now about them changing the system is a Greedy, Easy Money no content, Solo group guy.
Anyone who is ok with the changes coming is playing for Content not money for the most part and is most likly a veteran doctor who has stuck it out throught thick and thin.
My opinion here will for sure piss off some people, for those who need to Vent feel free to Email me in game. My characters name is Allandor Evermore, on Starsider Server. So there . . .