Doctor Archive

Thread: Put Medical Survey back on the issues list

Scoooter
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:27 am
#14

Traigus,



My point is not that drastic.


My point is that the community put it there and the comminity should decide if it is removed.


If the majority of the community feels that the answer is sufficient the it will not get voted in the top 5.






Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn
TaeRocko
Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:17 am
#15

Seriously when will it end...no one class will have everything. I think part of the reason the devs said "no" was to set a precedent. Let's say they said sure.. Doctors can have the equivalent of novice artisan and novice scout for surveying and harvesting. Well then, we aren't the only class that is in this boat...armorsmith and tailor need scout resources for their products...do we then give them novice scout level harvesting? When you get through all the professions, you've just given half of the scout abilities to a considerable amount of elite classes. Would survey benefit my skill points..sure, it would save me 15 I spend on novice artisan, but that's why we get 250 to allocate.

From Traigus's perspective...he brought the issue to the devs, they turned it down. Why, when there are so many other issues, bring it to them again? I'd be willing to bet if someone offered an "I win" button with novice moron, the community would vote for it. Being a correspondent requires the use of discretion. There are 33 professions in this game, and there are going to be overlaps.

Looking at issues doesn't just bring the question "do docs want it", but also "is it fair/balanced", "is it good for the game", etc. The question is who decides the answers...well initially it's the doctor community, but when it is brought to the devs, they overrule some of those answers. There may be a time down the road for the devs to revisit it, but a couple months is not it.

There are many other issues to be looked at, there's no need to waste them on answers we already have.

-Tae



----------------------------

Taeimoe - retired BH 2/4/4/4

Master Doctor/Master Blender
Scoooter
Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:18 am
#16

Well Songe if we are misinformed it is because no one has posted the response.


Following are the responses


In response to the Doctor Top 5 issues on 12/18/03 Zarlor reported the following response: “We have reservations about implementing such a change. The Surveying skill is considered integral to the Artisan profession and skill point expenditure is a basic challenge in the game and all professions have to make such choices.


However we acknowledge that the Docs feel some kind of problem exists on a root issue for this matter. As such a continuing discussion will be ongoing to ensure proper determination of that root problem and to hopefully find a mutually beneficial solution to that issue.”


Ref: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=doctor&message.id=24681


In response to the Combat Medic Top 5 issues on 12/19/03 Pahdbacca repeated the Doc response listed above.


Ref: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=18281


In response to our Top 5 issues on 12/20/03 Traigus reported the following response: “This would lessen the value of skillpoints spent by other professions. Skillpoint costs are a major balance factor in the game... ‘Skill point expenditure is a basic challenge in the game and all professions have to make such choices.’ This holds true for medical advanced professions as well (See Doc and CM Top 5 lists). The devs will continue to monitor this issue, across all medical professions.”



This is not an emphatic no to me, it is a "we will continue to monitor" and "it needs more discussion on the problem"


That is why Zarlor is keeping it open.


Is there dev corresponence past this that we have not been informed of?


All I know from this information dropping it arbitrarily is not good and the community should decide if this answer is sufficient. To me this says this answer tells me that it needs to stay on their radar screen







Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn
Travin64068
Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:43 am
#17

I believe that at one point Wookiees asked for armor and the Devs told them "Not going to happen". That was a balance issue too. Nothing in this game is set in stone. There are other issues I would rather see brought up to the Devs, but I do think the Doctor community should be given the chance to vote on this.


- Travin



Travin Greytin - Master Doctor - Master BE (12 point)
(Sunrunner) CTI Industries (5000, 6000) Kaadara Naboo
Support Medic Missions
Ivoe Greytin - Master Bounty Hunter - Master Creature Handler
(Sunrunner)
Marrow1
Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:52 am
#18

There is a cost to putting this issue in our top 5. The cost is that the item that may get bumped from our list may be an item that the Dev's will be willing and able to fix. But becuase we keep putting an item up on the list that the Dev's don't want to change we loose the chance to get something else fixed.


When making the top 5 list you must think of not only how important an item is to get changed but also how likely the Dev's will change it.


Imagine if all our top 5 items were things that the Dev's know about and have rejected. Imagine if all the docs felt that the buffs should be 3-5k a set, avian meat should be harvestable by an extractor and not a scout, all med resouces should spawn with 900+ stats, etc. Would that make the Doc life great? Sure. Would the Dev's do any of this. NO. So what good would the top 5 be? All our attempts at change would be wasted.


The goal of the top 5 from a Doc's view is not to tell Dev's of an issue but to get the issues changed.


IMO this issue is known by the Dev's and they have made a call.


Marrow










__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
Scoooter
Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:15 pm
#19






Marrow1 wrote:

There is a cost to putting this issue in our top 5. The cost is that the item that may get bumped from our list may be an item that the Dev's will be willing and able to fix. But becuase we keep putting an item up on the list that the Dev's don't want to change we loose the chance to get something else fixed.


When making the top 5 list you must think of not only how important an item is to get changed but also how likely the Dev's will change it.


Imagine if all our top 5 items were things that the Dev's know about and have rejected. Imagine if all the docs felt that the buffs should be 3-5k a set, avian meat should be harvestable by an extractor and not a scout, all med resouces should spawn with 900+ stats, etc. Would that make the Doc life great? Sure. Would the Dev's do any of this. NO. So what good would the top 5 be? All our attempts at change would be wasted.


The goal of the top 5 from a Doc's view is not to tell Dev's of an issue but to get the issues changed.


IMO this issue is known by the Dev's and they have made a call.


Marrow












If you look at the above dev responses there is not a no, but a "we will watch" And "there is a root issue here"


SInce this does not show a "no" my issue is it has been removed and not by vote.


If people feel it is not a top 5 issue anymore they can vote that way. If they do they do. My issue is that it has been removed for us and nothing has been posted from a dev that says "it wont happen"


Like the above poster said wookie armor used to be that way.


Well the dev response is a non answer so it need to stay on the issues list.


Now we are in the middle of a top 5 vote. That should dictate whether its stays on the top 5.




Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn
Chickenbone
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:30 pm
#20

Surveying skills belong to Artisans IMHO. You can still master a fighting class and master Doctor with 18 skill pts. left over for either novice artisan or novice scout. You can alternate between these 2 novice professions to survey or harvest avian meat. Surveying with novice artisan is not that bad witha speeder.



*********************
Gorath: Aradjin
Intrepid:Thorus
Bria: Gorangutar
Starsider: Bien
*********************
Traigus
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:34 pm
#21

The base issue is that docs can't get enough.

The refusal of /survey /sample means you won't be getting it yourself. (Write off /harvest while we are at it).

The next step in getting what we want is working with making the economy more friendly to docs.


I'm actaully going to stop posting to this thread, because you refuse to look at a bigger picture here. Since I'm not going to change my opinion, and you aren't going to change yours, this thread is just wasting time we can both spend doing other things.

I'll say it again.

You don't like the way I'm doing it, have me removed. Even better, try to get the job yourself. I could certainly use more time to actually Play SWG instead of working here on the boards or doing stuff on TC.

-T



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"We've got a blind date with destiny -- and it looks like she ordered the lobster."

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DoctorCoryn
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:01 pm
#22






Traigus wrote:
The base issue is that docs can't get enough.

The refusal of /survey /sample means you won't be getting it yourself. (Write off /harvest while we are at it).

The next step in getting what we want is working with making the economy more friendly to docs.


I'm actaully going to stop posting to this thread, because you refuse to look at a bigger picture here. Since I'm not going to change my opinion, and you aren't going to change yours, this thread is just wasting time we can both spend doing other things.

I'll say it again.

You don't like the way I'm doing it, have me removed. Even better, try to get the job yourself. I could certainly use more time to actually Play SWG instead of working here on the boards or doing stuff on TC.

-T




then show us what you've seen... you claim to be privy to the "big picture"... share it with the community rather than beating us over the head with your self-important lecturing and filtering information to fit your viewpoint





-----------------------
Coryn Dularen (Shen)
Master Doctor, Master Carbineer
==Former HGate Chief Medical Officer==
Official Carbineer Motto: "Carbineer - Stunning crowds since Publish 7"

"The Irish MP's are NOT 'after me frosted lucky charms'"
vortexala
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:42 pm
#23

Onebig picture is this... All three of the Medical Professions are interconnected. Issues crossover through all three top 5s all the time. Why use up an issue slot in Doc on the resource gathering issue(which, trust me, I think we deserve) when it can simply be put forth on the Medic List.


Resource collection problems begin at the Medic level. Allow the issue to be handled at that level. If it gets implemented there, then all three medical profession(and BE to an extent) will reap the benefits. Vote for it on the Medic List and let it get put forth to the devs from there. Let the CM and Doc lists have that slot for something else we might be able to get implemented or fixed instead.


Remember, just because you became a Doctor or Combat Medic doesn't mean you are no longer a Medic...you can, and should, vote on that list of issues as well.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Zarlor
Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:40 pm
#24


All I will toss in here is that the official answer was not necessarily a "no", per se, *keeping in mind the baser issue of Medical Resources, not necessarily the specific issue of /survey or /sample) but more of a they would talk with me about it. I've promised I will continue to work on the issue, though, but I'm still waiting for that debate they promised me here. The issue IS on the Medic Top 5 and my personal opinion is that I have no problem keeping it there and continuing to follow up on it, and pointing out where it affects ALL of the medical professions.


So this issue is not kicked out the door.


If anything I'd say in some ways it may be beneficial to cut down duplications between the Medic, Doc and CM lists. However, I also think that having duplications that make it onto all 3 lists does tend to give a little extra emphasis to the issue as well. So it's kind of a give and take. We can try to emphasize an issue, or we can try to get more issues in front of the Devs at a time.


It's hard to say which is better, really.


I will say that each Corre has rights over their own areas to create their lists however they want to. Heck, very few other professions even have a voting process like the medical professions do. Most of the other Corres simply deduce what the Top 5 most likely is based on the issues they are seeing brought up on their forums and from personal insight. Whatever works for getting the issues noticed, though, seems to be good enough.


Suffice to say the Resource issue is not dead, at any rate. Itdoes live on in the Medic list if nothing else and I will be following up on it for all of us.


[Edit to clarify the stance that the "not a no" statment pertains to the Medical Resource issue, not necessarily the specific /survey solutions offered as a possible solution in that issue.]

Message Edited by Zarlor on 03-23-2004 08:11 PM



Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
glorydragon
Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:30 am
#25

this is a community issue. I have a friend on gorath who is a master artisan and aweapon smith, (I'm not sure how far hes goten) and he has put aside 4 of his lots for me for heavy mineral extractors and I pay him 50k a month and 3 cpu, he gives me almost all the inorganic I need and he makes a nice profit. my point is if you have friends this won't be that big of an issue.
Traigus
Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:03 am
#26

The issue is still open (materials not available enough). That is still on the list (46, 49, 59, 66, 71, 77) Though I would bet large amounts of $$ 77 won't happen for the same reasons, but it has more of a logical connection then /sample, /survey becasue docs do know hgow to cut things up..

We can fight to get more of material X into the world for us to get, (most likely still bought from another player).

With all respect, Zarlor tends to spin this issue more positive then the stuff I have read from the devs. We won't get /survey, /sample or /harvest. No ifs ands or buts. Zarlor's paraphrases of the dev responses don't convey the total tone of all the stuff we have seen. Don't take them as 100% poof of anything, because by the nature of what we are allowed to post, they aren't complete (no fault of Z's).

But the devs _will_ look into making sure we can get what we need in game (probably though economy, not through / skills). That is what they are tracking.

Don't confuse the root problem, with the solution you want.

The root issue, is docs don't feel they have enough access to the quantity of materials they need. 1 narrow solution is to give docs the ability to get it themselves, has indeed been turned down.

If the amount of avian meat doubled or tripled on live servers and the prices went down, part of the problem would be fixed with no skill change to doctors at all.

All the medical people[including BEs] and chefs are working with the Rangers and scouts to get creature harvests raised. This is trying to solve the problem without adding Doc skills that step on other professions.

All the crafting professions are still pressuring for rare resource spawns to be a bit more common (some server have been really hosed on certain types).

These are things that can get changed to work on the root problem (doctors need materials).

-T



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"We've got a blind date with destiny -- and it looks like she ordered the lobster."

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