Doctor Archive

Thread: Enhance Constitution D

Marrow1
Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:06 am
#14






beyowulf wrote:






Marrow1 wrote:


There is a harm.


Just ask your self one question after you have rubberbanded 5 times in 5 minutes: Do the devs alway make changes smooth?








Even without considering the possible harm of a bad patch why ask for something that waters down the skill needed to make good packs? The harm in doing that is that it removes some of the challenge from being a crafting doc. Let's just all make sure that everyone can do exactly the same thing and not reward either skill or effort. There is a real risk to this kind of thinking....


....it means that the differences in packs would level out, reducing the rewards for those docs that craft to a higher standard of craftsmanship. Where then is their incentive to keep crafting or perhaps being a doc? Let's penalize them for their skill! Bravo!


....it makes being a doc more attractive to people who are not interested in being a doc but are interested in making credits. I know that resources are a challenge for buff packs-I've been at this long enough to know-but if they "dumb-down" the schems, then resources are the only barrier. Let's further water down our profession. Woot!


This is, of course, just my opinion.






Agree


Anything the Devs might do to change things would only make it worse.





__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

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KDenelor
Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:53 am
#15






MasterNerfSlayer wrote:

I figured as much... we need to get it on the issues list!


Calling Dr Griggs...






heck, if we have to bring something "in line" with others then why not make em all take 2 ABEC's?



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Ledao
Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:55 am
#16






beyowulf wrote:



Even without considering the possible harm of a bad patch why ask for something that waters down the skill needed to make good packs? The harm in doing that is that it removes some of the challenge from being a crafting doc. Let's just all make sure that everyone can do exactly the same thing and not reward either skill or effort. There is a real risk to this kind of thinking....


....it means that the differences in packs would level out, reducing the rewards for those docs that craft to a higher standard of craftsmanship. Where then is their incentive to keep crafting or perhaps being a doc? Let's penalize them for their skill! Bravo!


....it makes being a doc more attractive to people who are not interested in being a doc but are interested in making credits. I know that resources are a challenge for buff packs-I've been at this long enough to know-but if they "dumb-down" the schems, then resources are the only barrier. Let's further water down our profession. Woot!


This is, of course, just my opinion.






Well put. Can we just call it my opinion too?






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Marrow1
Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:21 am
#17






beyowulf wrote:





Marrow1 wrote:



Agree

Anything the Devs might do to change things would only make it worse.






I agree with you...in part. It's easy to beat on the Devs-heaven only knows we've had some excellent opportunities lately to experience the hind end of complex development projects, but I don't think the reason to avoid this is because the Devs will botch it.


I don't care how the Devs would execute it-I disagree with the principle of the idea.





I did not mean they would botch it in some unintended way. Let look at the most likely options.


1. All packs use 22avian/gas and 3 ABEC. The average avian/gas for a set goes up and our flexability goes down. There is no reward in working to match the Action pack and the one interesting thing in the doc lineup goes byby.


2. All packs use 28avian/gas and 3 ABEC. Same as (1) only worse.


3. All packs use 22avian/gas and 2 ABEC. Same as (1) but we get a small break on wheat/fiber.


4. All packs use org/inorg like Action. All the avian goes down the tubes. Very unlikely to happen.


5. As part of the CU the crafting in general changes. Oh boy, that will get ugly fast.


So in the end there really are great fixes to be had.






__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
nikko11
Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:42 pm
#18

As I said, this has always been.


There is no reason for it to be changed. This enables easier creation of packs with the leftover in the set of ABECs.


Please focus on true issues, this is NOT a true issue.





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slockard
Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:23 pm
#19

I so rarely get to make a good comment, but here goes. I think this is working as intended for another reason. This makes the one buff a dancer/musician/entertainer really needs a little easier to make. So it works out well for them, and well for doctors. I see no reason to change it either, as you not only hurt doctors, but hurt entertainers a bit.


Just my humble opinion though. I don't confess to command encyclopedic knowledge of the game





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MasterNerfSlayer
Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:51 pm
#20






nikko11 wrote:

As I said, this has always been.


There is no reason for it to be changed. This enables easier creation of packs with the leftover in the set of ABECs.


Please focus on true issues, this is NOT a true issue.





I'm noticing a trend of people feeling like we're trying to take the challenge in the game away from them. This really isn't the case. There is no rhyme or reason to the current pack requirements at all.Four packs require the same resources, andtwo differ from each other and the rest. If that were Health and Action, and those packs had the same requirements as each other, I'd see it as intended (ie. they buff the same type of stat: pool size). But it is Action and Constitution.


I don't blame people for liking the challenge, and heck, if you'd prefer that Health and Action be different from the subs, sure, or even make pool size buffs take resource set x, pool cost buffs take resource set y and pool regen buffs take resource set z then fine! I can see that being just as legit as what I believe is intended (all the same resource set), but I don't see why it should be left as Action and Constitution. There is no pattern to that. No logic.


Message Edited by MasterNerfSlayer on 02-02-2005 02:01 PM




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nikko11
Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:49 pm
#21

Yes, I take great pride in the fact that I will experiment very hard to get those quickness packs to be identical to the other packs, as it is different with the requirements.

Honestly, I probably spend twice as long making Con packs, and Action packs.


What it has to do with is the fact thatthere are more important issues to worry about, and the more low value changes are suggested, the more time spent away from worthwhile projects such as making enhance A - Cs worthwhile, creating a revive timer, making field hospitals give the medical center bonus, or reducing mind use of state stims to make them worthwhile, or any of the many other issues affecting doctors.


Fine, some of those are issues relating to other issues of the game.

Also, in the past when resources quantities or types required have caused problems with crated items made prior to a patch. (items uncrated have different stats than listed)


And I don't know if you recall when the med use adjustments were changed, can't tell you how many packs I had made worthless by that patch.


Based on prior experience with those kinds of changes, I just disagree with making such a modification, as any change in the crafting process of buff packs would be harmful to our profession.


And congrats on the test center changes to the medic prof, those are exactly the kinds on important changes that we should be focusing on. If you had anything to do with pushing those through, I thank you.





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nikko11
Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:50 pm
#22

>I so rarely get to make a good comment, but here goes. I think this is working as intended for another reason. This makes the one buff a dancer/musician/entertainer >really needs a little easier to make. So it works out well for them, and well for doctors. I see no reason to change it either, as you not only hurt doctors, but hurt >entertainers a bit.


Good point. This is my most used pack.





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beyowulf
Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:59 am
#23






MasterNerfSlayer wrote:



I'm noticing a trend of people feeling like we're trying to take the challenge in the game away from them. This really isn't the case. There is no rhyme or reason to the current pack requirements at all.Four packs require the same resources, andtwo differ from each other and the rest. If that were Health and Action, and those packs had the same requirements as each other, I'd see it as intended (ie. they buff the same type of stat: pool size). But it is Action and Constitution.


I don't blame people for liking the challenge, and heck, if you'd prefer that Health and Action be different from the subs, sure, or even make pool size buffs take resource set x, pool cost buffs take resource set y and pool regen buffs take resource set z then fine! I can see that being just as legit as what I believe is intended (all the same resource set), but I don't see why it should be left as Action and Constitution. There is no pattern to that. No logic.






The only way we'll ever know if the schem's for the buffs are really "working as intended" would to be put the devs under the white hot light and interrogate them....until then anything we think is speculation....and while speculation drives the entertainment value of the boards, it's really just a waste of energy-outside the entertainment value. I know that if I were looking at the buff schems and wanted to make them more challenging to craft well, I'd do something like the present schem configuration. Viewed within the context the Devs created with all the other med schems, theD-level buff schemsare a consistent decision. Think about it the "illogic" of how it increases the challenge:



  • Primary stats are critical on the buffs, so let's make the pack composition as different as is practical on the Action and Health packs. How do we do that....hrm.....change the component mix and change the resource requirements.....yeah that works.


  • Okay, now the primaries are differentiated.....is that enough? Well....let's just take one more pack that has the same resource requirements and give it a different component mix. Which one?...hrm....let's just do Constitution.

Any schem configuration that makes Action and Health different from each other and in some way different then the rest of the packs is the simplest and most powerful way to raise the challenge of crafting buffs. To make crafting anything dramatically harder, you need to break up logical sets of schems.


Are the current schems illogical from the perspective of making buff packs as challenging to craft as possible? Nope...sure there are other ways to accomplish the goal, but this is one of the valid choices.


Could the devs have been a six-pack into a Friday afternoon un-winder when they came up with the schems? Sure.


Could it have been an intended plan to make crafting buffs a greater challenge? That's equally possible.


While each of your suggestions is brilliantly logical, they're also much easier to craft. Any combination that matches the schems for the primaries as a set and the secondaries as a set is really pretty easy....because your logical sets of stats are all crafted the same. Hum....does that mean the presentschem sets are a "logical" craftingchallenge?.......


More importantly, the Devs can and will only address a limited number of issues. Aside from the fact that I don't want the game "dumbed-down" for my enjoyment, I think that there are much more important issues for all of us to pursue.



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KDenelor
Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:08 am
#24






nikko11 wrote:

>I so rarely get to make a good comment, but here goes. I think this is working as intended for another reason. This makes the one buff a dancer/musician/entertainer >really needs a little easier to make. So it works out well for them, and well for doctors. I see no reason to change it either, as you not only hurt doctors, but hurt >entertainers a bit.


Good point. This is my most used pack.






HUH? one quickness buff and entertainers never use any action at all.



Kazmo and Kaman

Leader of Freedom's Hand in Patria, Dantooine
Swordsman, Rifleman, 2 Private Pilots, Light Jedi Knight and Retired Buffpack maker.
Vendors are no more. Tis a sad day.
slockard
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 pm
#25






KDenelor wrote:





nikko11 wrote:

>I so rarely get to make a good comment, but here goes. I think this is working as intended for another reason. This makes the one buff a dancer/musician/entertainer >really needs a little easier to make. So it works out well for them, and well for doctors. I see no reason to change it either, as you not only hurt doctors, but hurt >entertainers a bit.


Good point. This is my most used pack.






HUH? one quickness buff and entertainers never use any action at all.





Exact;y/. And it takes up less resources than the rest, making it easier for docs to focus on just that one pack for a run, to have seperate ones set aside or sold for entertainers.


Again, just a thought. I'd love to hear the devs actually weigh in on it





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Obata
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:21 pm
#26






KDenelor wrote:





nikko11 wrote:

>I so rarely get to make a good comment, but here goes. I think this is working as intended for another reason. This makes the one buff a dancer/musician/entertainer >really needs a little easier to make. So it works out well for them, and well for doctors. I see no reason to change it either, as you not only hurt doctors, but hurt >entertainers a bit.


Good point. This is my most used pack.






HUH? one quickness buff and entertainers never use any action at all.





Exactly. There is no need at all to buff an entertainer's action or stamina. With a quickness buff the flourishes don't burn any action.



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