Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando

Fondler
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:31 pm
#105

I think the commando class should make me want to take this...

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=36726

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=36727

back.

Unfortunately, tacwraith has pointed out exactly what will actually happen, so I doubt I'll be coming back.

GG. Bye Sony Online Entertainment, It's about time you started EARNING your money.



no sig
Esarod
Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:28 pm
#106

The commando's sole purpose is to deal large amounts of damage to stubborn targets. They are the ones you call in when you can't take down an AT-ST or a dozen rebel troopers. Their weapons should strike fear in the target's eyes, praying that they survive the volley of flame and lightning. They shouldn't, however, be able to run and gun like a pistoleer. They are slow and steady shooters, but each hit should be relatively deadly. Unfortunately, the current skill tree for commando just plain sucks. I vote for a revamp of the whole skill tree. This skill tree should reflect the requirements to become a novice commando. As a result, here's an example that I've been pondering that may receive a lot of cheers and jeers:


I. Long Range Support




Esraod Ifevv
Alliance Ace Pilot
Esarod
Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:20 pm
#107

Sorry about the bad post:


The commando's sole purpose is to deal large amounts of damage to stubborn targets. They are the ones you call in when you can't take down an AT-ST or a dozen rebel troopers. Their weapons should strike fear in the target's eyes, praying that they survive the volley of flame and lightning. They shouldn't, however, be able to run and gun like a pistoleer nor always win one on one. They are slow and steady SUPPORT shooters, but each hit (if achieved) should be relatively deadly. Unfortunately, the current skill tree for commando just plain sucks. I vote for a revamp of the whole skill tree. This skill tree should reflect the requirements to become a novice commando. As a result, here's an example that I've been pondering that may receive a lot of cheers and jeers:


I. Long Range Support

2. Medium Range Support

3. Short Range Support

4. Melee Range Support


Sprinkle each tree w/ various accuracy, speed, and defense based on apporpriate name (e.g. ranged defense for Long and Medium, melee defense for Short and Melee). Place exisiting weapons in tree based on where they would be most accurate (grenades should be Medium, as should Flame and HLC). Create new weapons and skills that would allow the commando to "support" a battle, but not own it solo (yea I know most of you would rather have Commandos pwn everything and everyone, but that would defeat the purpose of the word "support"). Make the Master level worthwhile to earn!


my 2 cents.



Esraod Ifevv
Alliance Ace Pilot
AureliusHibiki
Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:59 am
#108


What defines theCommando role in combat?


Personally, When I picture a Commando, it isn't as some huge, dimwitted barbarian with a chaingun marching down the middle of a battle spraying bullets like some people think. I think of a Navy SEAL, trained in special operations, completly undetectable until they pounce with a small, efficient weapon or their bare hands.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Commandos should be able to shield themselves from view by other players, maybe even other player's radar. They should keep the grenades, although grenades need to work better. Also shaped charges etc that could be used to destroy vehicles and installations.


What offensive abilities?


They should be quick, deadly and stealthy. A small Assualt Rifle would be far better then a Flamethrower, but Commandos should also specialize in some nasty little surprises like Cryoban grenades that stun, hit for cold damage and maybe freeze a person for a few seconds. Stealth attacks like Garotte wire, backstabs.


What defensive abilities?


None, If they get caught, they should be easier to kill then a Meatlump Buffoon.


What unique abilities?


The ability to hide from other players, take down heavily armored targets, destroy installations,some hand to hand combat attacks that could do devestating damage if they have the element of surprise.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


I think Commandos should work alone, but in a group they could provide, in conjucture with a Squad Leader, the ability to hide from Radar until they attack.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Personally, I think they should have a Commando Armor, craftable only by a Master Armorsmith, but so does every other profession. They should act as the first line in the GCW, as a sort of super scout that can handle some situations on their own.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Commandos should be designed for the person who wants to be able to fight alone for the most part. That's how it is now, but we're more of a Berserker class then the finesse one imagines with the word "Commando"


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Assassins




______________________________________________________
Eve Stratafyre, Starsider Master Markswoman, Master Pyrotechnics Expert
WhatVVB
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:29 pm
#109


The one thing that I would think would make commandos better is the flamethrower should do flamesingle1 damage all the time, but can only be used at 15m or less. Make a flamethrower more like a flamethrower! Put a big tank on the back and make them run slower with the flamethrower equiped.
Fondler
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:51 am
#110



WhatVVB wrote:
The one thing that I would think would make commandos better is the flamethrower should do flamesingle1 damage all the time, but can only be used at 15m or less. Make a flamethrower more like a flamethrower! Put a big tank on the back and make them run slower with the flamethrower equiped.





People like this are the reason I'm quitting this game. I don't go into other profession's "In Concept" threads and try to get their professions made any crappier/less effective than they are, I would appreciate the same courtesy from other players.



no sig
Koveros
Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:41 pm
#111

I believe that commando is the wrong name for the class. Eliminate the unarmed requirement and call them Heavy weapons specialist (a previous suggestion worth repeating). So that leaves us with a name, Commando, and a role to assign. Commandos are equipped to use any weapon and they are stealthy. they also deal with explosives. They can infiltrate an enemy base, quitely knife any sentries, plant explosives along a wall to breach it, then use the enemy turret to provide cover for his buddies.


I feel that since they are supposed to be able to use all weapons, this means that commando should have the prereqs of master brawler (gives a purpose to master brawler, other than warcry2) AND master marksman. they could use just about every weapon available and have some specials to go along with it.


Next, what the profession would actually have for it's trees:


1. Stealth - they would have terrain negociation because if they didn't, they would have to take scout and they already have alot of points dedicated. also, they would have the ability to mask their allegiances, so they don't show up as a huge red triangle advertising an enemy. As long as they don't let others see them take somebody out, they would stay masked. also, he could disguise himself as a member of the faction he was going after.


2. Melee weapons. they should get cool specials that work with mainly one-handed and unarmed. most commandos stealthily running around don't take long vibro axes, they use small weapons that are easy to wield in close quarters. Besides, we need another pofession that uses unarmed.


3. Ranged weapons. they should use any of the marksman weapons for any situation. their specails whould reflect that diversity. A commando can snipe sombody, run to the next room and unload a carbine into a group of guards, then do a cool trickshot with a pistol to get away, or disarm somebody they want to question.


4. Explosives - Commandos love to blow stuff up. sneak in, plant a bomb, sneak out, then blow the place up. Grenades and rocket launchers are for the heavy weapons guys. the Commando uses bombs. he can make anti-personell bombs like mines, he can make wall-destroying bombs, and he should be able to set of huge base-destroying bombs from the inside.


other thoughts: he doesn't need others to finish his mission. he is a solo artist. of course he would need the weaponsmiths to make the cool weapons, the entertainers to heal the mind, and medics to heal his bruises, because everybody needs these things.


an example of how I see a commando working: he takes a mission to blow up a rebel base (faction mission). First, he sneaks up to it. He then quitely takes out one of the defenders, then has the option of disguise (the idea being that he takes the uniform, but mobs don't care whos underwear you have on) and he can then pretend to be a rebel. now that they think he is an ally, he then walks up, quitley plants an anti personell bomb, and walks off. BOOM! The defenders are all hurt, or at least heavily damaged. He then whips out a carbine and mows them down, probably taking a few hits due to teleportation or simply tough mobs. after the defenders are dealt with, he places another bomb on the base itself, destroying it in one hit, rather than shooting at it with bullets or hitting it with a stick.


I feel this could work in pvp and pve. with pve, you can pretend to be one of them, hurt them, then blow up their base with ease. To prevent easy base destruction, the commando will have to kill all the defenders before he can set up the base bomb, or else things would get out of hand quickly. also, his bombs could be used on nests, provided no more defenders are around. In pvp, a commando could wither sneak up and either knife or snipe an opposite faction member, then use the ability to disguse himself. he then walks around pretending to be on the other side, all the time taking out people with little or no fuss. I guess the Commando would have to have some special TEF privaleges though to get that to work.
Epa1patine
Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:30 am
#112

I have not read all of the previous post on commando so forgive me ifI say something that has already been mentioned. I have mixed feelings about the commando profession. I think they should be one of the stronger professions in the game combat wise but at the same time maintain some type of exploitable weekeness by other professions.


But in a sense nothing is wrong with commando in and of itself. I think the main thing is how easy it is to attain the profession and the ease of being able to lev up quickly.

With only having to master marksman and unarmed combat in brawler it leaves may skill points left to fill in the blanks on commando.
Givin the extra skill points a commando with Flamethrower 4 can pour all combat exp into Teras Kasi and gain all of TK's major defense mods and then take the remaining points and apply them to medic.


Combat wise that makes the Commando pretty self reliant. There isnt really much more you need to solo and type of combat. With the name of the prefession being commando...and keeping with the military theme commando players should be restrickted to not being other professions. And maybe be limited to faction players only and not neutral players. When was the last time you saw a commando for hire. You dont thats called a bounty hunter! When a player chooses to be a commando he should be part of a faction and should be limited to only that combat based sklill.


Heavy weapon exp should be nerfed. Can anyone tell me why when i kill a worrt with a flame throwerI get as much as 85 exp and whenI kill it with a pistolas apistoleer the most you will get is 45. Thats an example on a small scale. It really doesnt make sense that a heavy weapon can deal 1000 points of dmg on the low end and kill worrts in 1 shot should get more exp than person whokills the same creature with a different weapon does. Unless its a high end profession getting less exp than a starting profession. Example would be a Novice Marksman gets 100exp for killing a rill and a Novice Commando should get 10 exp for killing a rill.


If you are going to be a commando then why do you have to master unarmed combat in brawler. A profession completly based on heavy weapons needs to know how to fist fight??? This would be fine if it were actually applied once you are a commando, but it isnt. Scout in someway should also have a part in making a commando, this would make it harder for one to become one and also spend more skill points.


Commandos are support personel, not one man armys, like others have said, they should not be a solo based profession. They should be more like a squad leader ...something that a group would benifit from having, but alone the commando is vulnerable. Maybe commandos should not be able to fire a flamethrower in a small room without taking any damage himself. All us nerds remember playing D&D and having a wizard ...Fireball was a great spell but not in a small room it would kill everyone. These same type of common sense rules should apply. If in real lifewould youbarge into abar with a rocket launcher to kill one guy!! No you would use a pistol cause its more accurate and you have more control over it. Commandos can be completly reckless and not suffer a penalty for it, thats a huge problem. Maybe alot of this will be resolved when the new combat system is in place.


epa1patine


4thewookie
Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:18 pm
#113

I just started Commando so i don't know about alot of there issues but one i do know of. The HAR sucks, even the shooting animation sucks. Please replace it with the DC-15 clone trooper rifle. I think this would be much better.



Show the Wookiee's LOVE.........
Yesurb
Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:50 pm
#114

Q. What is the profession’s role?
A. The Commando's role is in taking down high-hit point targets, and thinning out concentrations of troops (grenades, flamethrower).

Q. How should the profession progress?
A. Novice Commando has access to heavy weapons, grenades, charges, and certain specialized weapons. At the Novice level, the accuracy of heavy weapons is good (being a master marksman), but the range is limited. The accuracy of specialized weapons may be not so good. As the commando progresses through the profession, range and accuracy is increased on grenades, rocket launchers and specialized weapons. New weapons are added to the arsenal, increasingly more powerful. Explosive packs get more and more damage rating.

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

Q. What defines the Commando role in combat?
A. High hitpoint, stationary targets. Large group of targets.

Q. What basic combat elements should they possess?
A. Grenades, Charges, Launched Weapons, and Flamethrower.

Q. What offensive abilities?
A. Ability to throw grenades, plant charges on stationary targets, launch a variety of projectile weapons, and flame targets.

Q. What defensive abilities?
A. For a commando, the best defense is a good offense. They have the skills of the master marksman, and the skills of Unarmed 4... There should be no defensive mods. Commandos should be slow moving targets, large length of time between ordinance fires, but huge amounts of damage.

Q. What unique abilities?
A. Their weapons should be unique. I think commandos should also be able to plant charges. These are timer or remote detonated that take 60 seconds to place.

Q. Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A. Ability to take down stationary targets quickly.

Q. How could/should they interact with other professions?
A. They should be designed primarily for crowd control and stationary targets. A single commando should not fare well verses a ranged target. Verses a melee target, they can only rely on their flamethrower.

Q. What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A. Commando needs to be grouped with others for defense. They are not a solo player.

Q. What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A. They should be able to plant charges to take bases down.



----
Eatibus Postmanicus
Ranger/Rifleman
SasKarna
Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:35 pm
#115

Hello mr thunderheart oh mighty god of SOE galaxy. Me is Saskarna and feel you should see commando prayer grounds to understand our sarrow at dying profession. We see all sides to argument, but feel like noone sees our even though they say they do. my latest tale of woe should enlighten you to our current feelings quite nicely. its not rude or hateful. but it sums up comedically that we basically feel left out, and all we want is some clarity, so we can sit back and say truly, were screwed, but maybe its not so bad. right now, commandos say, were screwed, i wanna die or be a chef, etc. its very depressing
SasKarna
Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:43 pm
#116






Ocaigann wrote:

I really don't appreciate how strong commandos are. They shouldn't own PvP and PvE, along with bounty hunters and TKA. They hit so hard, they can almost always one shot players without composite, and even if you have armor, you'll just burn to death. They are definetly too strong, and I really hope they get put in line with other combat professions.





its unresearched comments like this that really damage ALL professions that are mightier than others. You plainly have not looked beyond, boohoo i got burned, or boohoo i havent made commando yet. or, everyone else complains, they must be bad. a commando does NOT own in PvP UNLESS. they are trained and probably mastered in something else. Yes we can one hit kill. assuming luck is on our side. it rarely is, and i was master long enough to see that. yes, PvE is rather easy against voritors, MAYBE pikets on a good day. but im sorry, we DO NOT own ANYTHING. The bitterness surrounds the XP farming, and if you dont like commandos taking all the xp DONT HUNT WITH ONE. ASK THEM TO PUT THE FLAMER UP....ive never refused to do this yet. Such ignorant whining about the power is so old its pathetic. Other professions have excellent power over commando....we havent nerfed those. Can you heal a disease with ointment yet? not, can you heal poison yourself? no, can you block a knockdown? not if your commando, cmon, theres so much more out there that can ace a commando its pathetic, and you worry about a flamer, cmon, really, have you EVEN tried commando? you dont understand it til you tried it, so save the boohooing til you have experience

PS this isnt meant to be a flame, but your post sums up the silliness of the whole commandos are uber army of ignorance, and its tiresome. just look for one second at a TREU commando, that is one with no other skills. they are not as tough as everyone things. and you have to BE ON to realise this, trust me
SasKarna
Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:46 pm
#117

sorry about the three post frenzy, but i had to add one more thing about this burn crap. an EXTREMELY smart medic dragged a body into a river BEFORE healing the body. the burn went out, funy but true. the medic was me. see. i TRIED things before i WHINED. i found water puts out flames, a burning person keeps getting incapped. put out the burn BEFORE healing, and your just gravy. did you EVER try this. and dont give me the tatooine junk. dont fight on tatooine if you dont wanna get flamed without water. did you try this on a planet WITH water. if you didnt, try it, if you were too far from water, WAIT TIL THE BURN STOPs. stop being in such a rush. but i guess this is all moot now anyway
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