Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando
OK, I am going to do all comparisions here to masters of other professions
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCommando role in combat?
An ability to deal an unparalleled bolus (initial burst) of damage and apply a very high damage over time (DOT) attack at master to a group . As a trade off, the commando has lower damage per second (DPS). Unfortunately, the present combat system favors DPS in a pvp battle, since a miss by a commando gives them 0 dmg for 6-15 seconds when using a sepecial. Further, the present range limitations on the DOT specials mean that comandoes can be kited by ranged professions and must be within range of very powerfulmelee specials for which they lack appropriate defenses.Additionally, the commando has an unparalleled array (at least in theory) at his/her disposal. Unfortunately, the commando is less skilled with his weapons than any other elite profession. Also, the commando only gains specials that can be used within the above mentioned 16m. Further, 2 of the commandoes classes weapons (grenades and heavyweapons)cannot be used indoors presently and one weapons (the Heavy Acid Rifle(HAR))modifiers do not work presently.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The commando should be either a) able to use all basic elite ranged combat weapons (i.e. the t-21, dx-2, and dxr6) and vibroknuclers without additional benefits (i.e. a commando would be a master of all weapons that they have the trees trained in but not get more bonuses for speed, accuracy, specials) or b) receive enhanced modifiers to their existing weapons, have existing weapons revised to re-adjust limitations (such as extending specials from 16m to 32m; allow hw/grenade use indoors; make grenades/hw more easy to craft; give the HAR an amor piercing value)
What offensive abilities?
The commando should be the penultimate of damage in the game, only rivaled possibly by the bounty hunter (I personally think commando should be better than commando based upon sp distribution, but thats a seperate issue). Commandoes should either a) be able act like elite shock troops, able to take down and unarmored/unbuffed opponent in amatter of shots or b) resemblecover operationsunits in the military, possing weapons capable of combating a large group, such as high firing wait suppression weapons and also have the ability to take out hardend targets and vehicles. Ithink the commandoyou were shooting for more resembles the second option. To achieve this, the commando weapons would have to be completely redone, with the HAReitherredone with a lower damage and higher firing rate and specials or replaced by another weapon, such as the beam rifle.Also, the commando should get their own specials for the lp, rather than having to invest more points in another elite just to use this weapon effectively.
What defensive abilities?
Presently, the commando class has some of the lowest defenses of any elite proffession. As a trade off for this, it would be nice for either commando specific armor to be introduced that was lower in encumberance or give the commando lower encumbrance with existing armor.
What unique abilities?
The commando should be the best profession at taking out structures and vehicles. Presently these are few and far between, and a master pistoleer with novice commando can cause more damage with a launcher pistol than a master commando can with a rocket launcher. It would be nice if these rocket launchers caused more damage to justify the sp expenditure and costs (1k credits per shot). Also, a commando specifc mission terminal would be nice, giving more military style missions, such as take out a bunker, rescue a hostage from overwhelming odds. Presently, most missions are not appropriate to the commandoes skill, even without DOT stacking. Also, when battlefields are re-introduced, there should be either commando emplacements or the ability to erect these.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Massive damage output, acting as the spearhead of an attack, NOT A SUPPORT CLASS.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Commandoes SHOULD rely heavily on weaponsmiths for consumable weapons, but most dont given the associated costs. Commandoes rely heavily on armorsmiths for advanced composite, and it would be nice to get commando specific armor. Commandoes DO rely Doctors and Combat medics since they lack the skill points to have ANY of these skills. Commandoes also rely heavily on smugglers to get good speed sliced flamethrowers to reduce the IMMENSE lag between shots. Commandoes, also rely on chefs for food buffs since they cant masterthis proffession either.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Commandoes should be able to engage any other opponent on an equal footing. Commandoes should rely on rifelman and carbiniersto soften up targets with melee classes and pistoleers complenenting the commandoes. A radical alternative would be to allow commandoes to be a fire suppression class, giving them high rate of fire weapons with area attacks (e.g. the .50 caliber machine gun), but I dont like this as much. Presently, this class lacks a strong definition, and is vulnerable to all classes
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Commandoes are elite SOLDIERS, specializing in large scale assault and destruction of vehicles/structures/anything in their way. Presently they are cannon fodder to other players, few people use AT-ST as these cant be healed, creaating a dirth of targets, and there are few attackable buildings presently, with commando weapons of limited effectiveness against these.
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
By definition in the dictionary, the word "commando" is defined as:
1)an amphibious military unit trained in raids into enemy territory
2) a member of a military unit trained as shock troops for hit and run raids
What does this mean to me and how does this translate to me for SWG? The Commando should be alot like the U.S. Special ForcesNavy Seals. They would specialize in massive damage attacks with the intent to kill or cripple their opponent their opponent in a single hit. They would be able to move into a strike zone to perform reconaissance virtually undetected and move out.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
This is the Commandos bread and butter here. They are all about damage. Although, I feel that the four skill colums should be revamped. Here is what I would like to see.
1) Demolitians - This would be for both weapons and explosives. I would like to see Plastic Explosives that could be placed on doors or lairs to inflict massive damage. The Plastic Explosives would take like 30 seconds uninterrupted to successfully place. Also the placement of Land Mines that would also have like a 30 second placement time. I feel Grenades should be placed here as well but each grenade should have a crippling ability such as knockdown, stun, intimidate, etc. Grenades currently have no real practical use other than to gain combat XP.
2) Reconnaissance - This tree would contain skills such as recon. If you performed recon undetected for 30 seconds on a lair, building, or particular mob, you would gain added combat bonuses. This would have the opportunity for you to learn valuable information that may prove useful on a future raid such as learning of a secret entrance to a building or when watch rotation took place for the guards at a base.
3) Heavy Weapons Expertise - This skill would cover all heavy weapons. The Flamethrower is fine as is but the other weapons need a SERIOUS boost in effectiveness. If the Rocket Launcher is going to be dispensible, that is fine. But..... The damage needs to make it worthwhile. The Rocket Launcher should have a 15 second aim with a 15 second delay afterwards as well. The RL's primary use would be against structures. Remember massive damage? This rocket needs to be able to do 5 to 10k damage depending on Heavy Weapons skill and have an AoE effect of 15 meters in each direction full damage and an additional 10 meters 50% damage. If aimed at a structure, the structure would be dealt 5X regular damage. The Acid Rifle sucks. No one uses the skill. The DX2 Pistol FAR outdamages it. This is not right. The Acid Rifle should have around a 5second delay and deal around 1000 damage per hit with an armor piercing acid DOT that deals 5k damage over 60 seconds. Each time a new acid shot hits, it just continues the current aci DOT with no additional damage but does extend the tiem of the DOT to 60 seconds from that shot.
4) Small Sidearms - each Commando needs to have the ability to get down and dirty with their trusty Launcher Pistol. The only problem is that we must use skills from the Pistoleer tree to be effective with it. We need a Commando line of offensive skills for our pistol. These skills should mimic the 3rd column of the Pistoleer tree but to about 75% efficiency. We also should recieve attack speed and to hit bonuses with our pistol here.
What defensive abilities?
We already have them. Burst Run!!!!!!! 
This is not our true purpose. The only ability I would like to see and it would fit nicely under the recon tree is the ability Take Cover. This would allow a commando to use the terrain as armor such as hiding behind a tree or rock. Then depending on the skill there would be a possibility for the structure to take damage instead of the commando. I would say TakeCover1 would have 10% chance, TakeCover2 20% chance, and as a Master Commando TakeCover3 with a 40% chance.
What unique abilities?
The recon as stated above would be very useful and inline with the true definition of commando
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
If the Commando is able to successfully perform recon, the entire group should share the combat bonuses for the duration of that fight or like 5 minutes. The commando could also place land mines around camp to prevent attacks or use plastic explosives to destroy a structure such as a small building or a door.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
There should be some mutual bonuses shared if they are grouped with a Squad Leader. Also recon benefits would be shared with the group.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
We should be powerful but can only be that way dependant on the other classes. We would need doctor buffs, a medic, a weaponsmith for repeat purchases, an armorsmith for new armor and to repair aromor, and a Smuggler to slice ALL of these weapons and armor we get. We would be powerful but much like Batman.... nearly powerless without our utility belt 
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
We would be the icebreakers for a raid by gaining recon for the raid. Also our use of demolitions would play a key part in infiltrating enemy bases and compounds. Commandos would be sent in like the US Marines for the first wave of cleanup under heavy fire with the intention of punching a hole in the enemies defenses so that the other classes could take out the enemy now that their spirits have been weakened by the first wave of attacks.
This is how I envision the Commando in SWG. Right now the commando is in Limbo hanging on only by their use of the flamethrower. Many Master Commandoes have left the profession becausea 0040 Commando is just as powerful. We need to make this class more useful all the way around.
If only Ivoni had been given a chance to participate in forums like this oneback when he was still in SWG... 
What defines theCommando role in combat?
Commandos are small fighting forces specially trained for making quick destructive raids against enemy-held areas.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Versatility. A commando should be able to strike fast and hard at a target in any situation whether the enemy isentrenched or in a heavily armored vehicle.
What offensive abilities?
Since theCommando is designed for veryspecific missions, inreality they have many ways to dispose of the enemy. Anability to attack withvarying types of damage such as heat, blast, electrical, andacid should be key to a Commando's victory.
What defensive abilities?
A Commando uses stealth. In a sci-fi world like Star Wars it is more stereotypical to see Commandos clad in heavy armor. If an enemy approches a Commando for melee combat the Commando should be able to throw down the oppenent in self defense.
What unique abilities?
The Commando is about taking out the target. An example is if it is a building, the Commando will have explosives. Something simillar could be used on GCW buildings with high amounts of defense.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
In PvE the Commando's ability to attack with different types of heavy hittingweapons should be the advantage. When going into PvP Commando's should not even have spray or cone of fire type attacks, their purpose is concentrated attacks.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Commandos should be the first wave of attack when assulting the enemy.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Even with the Commando's self defense abilities, they should not be able to take repeated hits against them. Commando's are not focused on defense.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A Commando's role is a focused and devistating attack on a target whether it be an AT-AT, a base's defenses,or other key points of the battle. A Commando should not be out in the open field going head on with waves of enemies.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
kicking ass and taking names. they are the tanks. they blowstuff up, blow people up. able to sneek around and do "stealthy" type things.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
commados are, well, commandos. they should be able to sneak around while dishing out the damage. be good with a sniper rifle and a knife. also they should be conditioned; they shouldn't suffer battle fatigue as bad as other professsions. (i mean you dont go around killing people and not get atleast a little bit desenseatized) they should be the front lines-men- engage multipul targets at a time with the FT for example.further more they should be able to handle heavy combat droids (if they are ever added to the game:smileytongue that dish out heavy firepower
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
-the ability to conceal themselves from other's radars. (player mask-scent)
-interact with the environment. use thier surondings to thier advantage and take shelter behind them are dive into a ditch to shelter from debris kinda thing.
What unique abilities?
-player mask scent (see above)
-advanced take cover (see above)
-new weapons (see above)
-ability to lay single land mines (to avoid the whole world being covered in mines, maybe a timelimit or the commando can't go 1km away from the mine or it detonates)
-anti-tank/vehicle weapons. special weapons that blow away ATSTs (to a certain extent) and the such
-lower armor encumberance for commandos. they have been trained to wear it effectivly, so why the high HAM costs?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
-hide group for enemy radar (PvP)
-set up manable turrets for heavy firepower, high suppresive power, able to dig a trench or ditch for cover
How could/should they interact with other professions?
-well they should have to buy most of thier equipment (armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, chefs, DEs)
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
-they need to buy their equipment from other players (crafters)
-they should be the suppresors (front-line guys that take all the fire while the rest pull off the acurate shots and set stuff up)
-group player mask-scent (see above)
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
-tank enemy soldiers
-breach enemy bases' walls
Do You Need Some Soal?What defines theCommando role in combat?
The Commando is the all around soldier, equal to special ops. The commando is not only great solo, but can be utilized in a group for higher firepower. In solo combat, the commando is able to survive better than anyone else and is able to infiltrate with more force than a spy. In a group of commandos, they become a powerful force to take down opposition. In a group with other different types, the commando mainly stays back and lays down the firepower, but can occasionally lead the group to battle and take the brunt of the blows.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
As a hybrid form, they need to have about 20% melee(in close)and 80% ranged abilities. So they need basic hand to hand combat and in close combat, as well as being able to throw heavy fire from range. From range, they are truly offensive, but in close, they are very well versed in defense as well as offense.
What offensive abilities?
Massive amounts of firepower from range, able to take out many small units at once, or one large unit.
Inclose, they are formidable to other melee forms and should easily take out ranged forms.
What defensive abilities?
Able to defend against hand to hand very well, in close combat well, but not able to defend as well from range. IMO they have 80% defense in close, and 20% at range, the opposite of their offense.
What unique abilities?
1) Explosives (Since there is no demolition expert, it has to go here). Detonation packs, grenades, mines, etc.
2) Terrain Negotiation /Burst Run Efficiency(Scout should be a requirement for this class, but since it's not, it's dumb for a commando not to have this). They are fast and move well with terrain.
3) Camoflague(either similar to ranger, butwithout moving or you must be prone crawling; or added defense by looking like surroundings, thus harder to hit).
4) Heavy Weapons. Can't have heavy firepower from range without heavy weapons.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
already stated in the beginning.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
it is unnecessary, except for preparation before combat/missions in which we need supplies (currently weaponsmiths, chefs, doctors, entertainers). We should be able to handle ourselves in a combat mission (we work best with other commandos, and possibly a squad leader).
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Dependancies: Leadership,we aren't leaders, we just follow orders and lay down fire on the assigned target
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Solo infiltration of bases (good missions from terminals could be made from this).
I am a master commando on gorath server. and i posted towards the first pages of the thread basically off the proverbial cuff. and i have had some more time to think about what i wrote and play in game and really feal out what my combat role should be. I have made some drastic changes as to what i think the commando needs to be in combat. My second look at a commando is based much more on meditation in game on how i feel i shoudl be in combat. lets proceed.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
I the commando should be an expert at taking out NPC encampments and vehicles. My damage types and combat abilities should reflect this. Ishould be limited in my ability to fight beast-typeMOBS to the point where I become very limited in the damage i can do on group hunts for MOBS. My damage type should be lessefective against a rancor than say against a rebel tank or imperial AT-ST.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
I the commando need weapons that wcan quickly cut through NPC MOB encampments and weapons with the ability to slowely do massive damage to structures and vehicles.
What defensive abilities?
Defence against vehicle type heavy damage or other heavy weapons. Less defence against melee types of damage that may come from an animal.
What unique abilities?
I the commando should be theONLY character type to have the ability to SOLO a rebel tank or ATST.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Usefull in taking out turrets and tanks and fortified structures as well as mowing down ranged nonplayer or player characters.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Would need to be in a group with other proffessions to be able to fight any sort of creature or beast in the game. I would need to hang back and throw grenades and shoot from a distance while other classes went up and did the main damage load to the MOB. But i would lead the charge against any tough ranged npc's, turrets or vehicles.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
taking out lots of rebel troopers or tanks, or storm troopers and atst's. I am THE GWC grunt
Thank you all for your input and feedback. This thread will now be fowarded to the Deleted Items folder.
Your flamethrower has been nerfed.
have a nice day.