Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando

supa187
Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:48 pm
#118

well said sas.



Goodfella


KDiller
Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:18 pm
#119



What defines theCommando role in combat?


The commando should be widely versed in combat. I want my skill points I spent on Master Marksman and Unarmed 4 to mean something. Commando should basically be the GCW form of a Marine or a Special Operations Force. They should be able to take out an enemy in numerous ways, not just heavy weapons.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


They be a all around soldier.Trained purely for combat. Whatever a combat situation calls for they should be able to do it. Maybe the group has no Rifleman and needs someone to shoot from range. The Commando pulls out his Assault Rifle and starts firing a spray of Assault Rifle shots (something designed to pack a real punch to the mind, but doesn't put the Riflemen out of a job). Or maybe you need an enemy squad inflicted with serious damage quickly. The Commando pulls out his Flamethrower and uses a flame cone.


What offensive abilities?


They should be all around. If a squad of enemies are charging they should need to inflict major damage with a flame cone. Theyshould be able to fire deadly shots at range with an Assault Rifle. They should be able to beat the life out of the enemy with their hands at close quarters. With unarmed attacks like headbutt or leg kick (leg kick would knock them of their feet knocking them down). I did Unarmed 4 and Master Marksman and I want to see it used for something as aCommando.


What defensive abilities?


Defense shouldn't be that high. They are the damage dealers. They are concentrating on inflicting severedamage on the enemy, not on dodging fire. They need to rely on armor to keep them safe.


What unique abilities?


Terrain negotiation - We are like Special Operation squad members. When moving from our base to the battlefield we should be able to cover the terrain fast and reach our destination quickly. Time is always an asset!


Stealth - Again back to the Special Operation idea. We need to be able to sneak into a area, place some explosives undetected, clear the area, and detonate. Of course there would be a special anti-stealth structure similar to the covert faction scanner.


Lower Encumb - We are trained to fight. We have gone through intense combat training. We have built up endurance and have learned how to use armor to our advantage. We should be rewarded for this.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Obviously the ability to damage the enemy and fill any combat role the group needs.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Weaponsmith - We are widely versed in combat. We need to have a large variety of weapons.


Armorsmith - As mentioned before we should have low defense. The armorsmith need to keep us defended from fire.


Combat groups - We are the all-around soldier. If they need something done they know who to talk to.


Medics/Entertainers - They will love the xp from healing the victims of Commandos.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Commandos should be elite and tough. Like a Special Operations task force, but in the field they need assitance! Maybe against a small group one or two would be effective, but inmajor battle (20vs20 or more) they need a squad to rely on. The squad should be able to depend on them to inflict major damage to enemy. In return the Commandos should respond on other combatants like Riflemen to finish off their target(s) after the target(s) have been incapped by the commando. Rifleman stands out as a major role to work with a Commando, but any role should play a part. Pistoleers to shoot quickly to keep enemies busy. TKAs should be able to tank also keeping the enemies busy.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


These are the guys people need to look for not when the need a turret shot down, but they need someone to preform any task. These guys should be able to hit a majority of an enemy squad with a flame cone, snipe from range with assault rifles, and fight close quarters with pistols or your hands.




Captain Izurx (MIA)
Loyal Member of Thought Bludgeon
Member of the Imperial Hall of Fame
DarkonSlayer
Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:00 am
#120




What defines theCommando role in combat?


A Commando is a combatant that is in the forfront of a battle or Campaign. They would be heavy weapon specialist and assault weapon specialists. They should be able to fight in melee or ranged. They would be the ones to take out enemy bases andspaceships using expolsives or juryrigged equipment. They can work alone or in groups.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Ranged, Thrown,Placed Explosives,and Melee


What offensive abilities?


Support line, Heavy weapon line, Assault weapon line, and Melee Line


What defensive abilities?


Support line, Heavy weapon line, Assault weapon line, and Melee Line


What unique abilities?


The use of an Expolsive that can be placed and on a timer.


The ability to go Covert and Overt without speaking to Faction Reps.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


The ability to use a wide variety of weapons, yet be specialized in none, hold the grenade/explosive.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Armor smith make their armor.


Weaponsmith make their weapons.


All the standard interactions that other classes have.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


A commando should be able to to solo missions that require their expolsive nature, but require the other professions to pull them out of the hot seat should things go wrong.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


The Commandos main role should be that subterfuge. They should be a hidden aspect being able to appear out of nowhere strike and disappear back into the void.



The Current Commando in the game is nothingmorethen a Heavy Weapons Specialistwith a requirement to take Unarmed Combat 4.


If any of these changes to the commando line should come about then the Current Commando line should have its title Change to Heavy Weapons Specialist. Of course that is my opinion.








LINA INVERSE
Smuggler/Politician/Pilot
LINA' INVERSE
Commando/Pilot
FLURRY SERVER

sidewinder78
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:45 pm
#121

The only problem I have with commando is that I'd like to be a weaponsmith too. but because I had to take unarmed 4 I wont have enough skill points to master both. The game said you should be able to master 3 professions and dabble in a 4th but thats one combination that wont work. It would be nice if you could use engineer 4 to get commando or unarmed 4. That way the people that want to be TKA and Commandos can still do that and those commandos like me that would liek to be able to make our own weapons could go that route as well. Besides, didnt there used to be skill that the commando got that let them tweek explosives? What happened to those? They seemed to fit perfectly with an engineer commando.
chibbs
Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:13 pm
#122


What defines theCommando role in combat?


I see a commando as being a special ops person. they should be elite in all forms of combat, heavy weapons, ranged, melee, and so on.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


ranged,melee,heavy weapons


What offensive abilities?


ranged, close combat (pistols/carbines), melee, and heavy weapons


What defensive abilities?


stronger defence all around, espically against melee


What unique abilities?


better/more specials for existing weapons, unique specials for other weapons (rifles,pistols, carbines)


i like the idea of being able to go overt with out talking to a recruiter


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


massive damage in a short peirod of time


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Armor smith make their armor.


Weaponsmith make their weapons.


All the standard interactions that other classes have.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


a comando shouldnt have to rely on any other combatants unless its a huge raid where the comando's skills are nessary


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


massive amounts of damage in a short peirod of time, blow **edit** up.




Over all i see the commando being like Schwartzenegger in Commando



======================================================================
chibbs
member of WDMKR
Master Marksman, Brawler 4-0-0-0, Commando 2-3-4-0, Scout 4-0-0-0, Medic 4-0-0-0
Imperial Rank:Warrent Officer II
======================================================================
Bevof
Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:40 pm
#123

The only thing I would recommend changing with this profession is give the heavy weapons more charges.
Nighthelm
Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:20 am
#124

/bump


The last post in this thread was 6 days ago. See a problem SOE?



Jered Nighthelm of the Keepers of a New Hope
Tierlieb
Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:32 am
#125



Hmmm... since my ideas do not fit into that schematic which Thunderheart devised, I'll make my statement short.


Rename "Commando" into "Heavy weapons guy" then start again asking the same questions.


Commandos are elite guys, well vised in every combat situation. This game doesn't work simply having such profession, but reaching a certain level through learning one or more professions that are based on aspects of the game mechanics to suit a certain play style.


If you still want a "Commando" profession, make the prerequistes cost so much that a Master Commando cannot learn anything else. That describes these wonderfully single-minded guysin real lifebest.


If you want a profession that works with heavy weapons, name it that way. That will take away preconceptions about having one "ultimate combat and nothing else profession", that all power-gamers want.



Bye,


Tierlieb

thepunisher286
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:11 am
#126



For the "Concept" part of the thread: Heres a concept you devs should take notice in, instead of listening to everyone else but the commandos on how to fix the commando proffesion, try listening to the people who play the proffesion?( nerf flame and leave everything else the way it is )Geee, ever thought of that?


Ever thought of responding to Commando forums when you said you were a commando in which you worked your way from the ground up?


Ever thought of giving answers back to the commando other than the usual pat answer like "its part of the combat revamp"


Or have you ever explained the science of how you concluded the flame dot is over powered when you pitted a Master commando aagainst a Master command. then said "M commando won! Overpowered!" in not in those exact words.


How about responding to the negative posts? The devs had made such a big mess of the game and ignoring every thread with some negativity will eventualy leave SWG with only a few crafters and tka playing the game.


In all seriousness, you havent listened to us in every thread ever made thus far... what has changed since then...

Droidpolice
Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:07 am
#127

As a Commando I find it very disconcerting thatI am virtually limited to using the flame thrower as my primary weapon. i would enjoy being to better imploy the heavy weapons and the acid rifle in a more productive role. Ialso am surprised that the grenades are not more effective as the deployement of grenades in RL is not a specialized skill every noob to the Army and Marine Corps learns how to throw one and I fail to understand why it takes so much action to deploy a rather simplistic weapon. Increase the deployment delay not the action. Also heavy weapons while they look nice and are a nice concept are rather useless in combat even deployment on towers and structures cause very little damage compared to say some CH/CHpet combinations which is crazy. I mean just send a Rancor and shoot your weapon and you do more damage than a heavy weapon. Acid rifle would be a more viable weapon if it had a DOT or the ability to use rifle skills with it. the Launcher pistol allows the use of marksman pistol skills why not the same for the Acid "Rifle". Also the need for brawler skills while a good concept really needs to play a stronger factor as you progress in Commando skills. I mean once you get a flamethrower are you really going to go hand to hand unarmed what would be the point?? I think a commando specific mission terminal would be a great concept idea. It should focus on installation exploration and elimination of personnelor disabling a vehicle or surveillance of an enemy position. these are the traditional roles of commandos.I would enjoy seeing Commando be a true combat class that can stand alone and survive but also benefit from team play. I hope the limitations can be addressed and that they are implemented nerf free. I would hate to see commando nerfed like CH was and is after the complaining members of the forums voiced their concerns of unfair advantages or abilities simply because they had a better creature. in the case of Commando it would be a better weapon. I just read notes for Publish 7 and I have mixed feelings over the fireblanket use. I see why you are wanting to do it but if this is the case are you not taking the one working advantage Commandos have and making a mere annoyance to PVP or GCW battles. Well enough of my ranting just my thoughts on the issue of Commando i hope something helps in the decision process when it comes to improvements.



Droids being so much joy to the world. Too bad they aren't all good.
heapum
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:22 pm
#128



Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:


What defines theCommando role in combat?


I see the commando as the elite soldier. The Navy Seal of the Star Wars universe, capable of effectively defending against any attacker, with a wide variaty of weapons at their desposal. they are not specialists in any set of weapons (rifles, carbines, pistols, unarmed) but incorperate the most effective methods of using those weapons to get the job done. An example if this is Navy Seals are taught a very dirty version if jujitsu for their unarmed combat training. They know the most effective unarmed combat manuevers so they can deal with the enamy if they are caught weaponless. Their job was not to fight, it is to kill as quickly as possible to accomplish the mission and not jepordize it.


When I saw the commando listed in the prodessions I was hoping it would reflect this in game to a certain extent. I loved the idea of the commando so I mastered the profession and to my dismay I was very disappointed. In PvE the commando owns the battle field only falling to to opponents that are much stronger then themselves. PvP is a completely different story though. The commando will be lucky enough to get a flame cone off before he is knocked down and killed. the only way the commando can PvP effectively is if they augment the class with another profession. To me that is extremely wrong if you want have the feel of playing a soldier oriented combat class. In time I hope to see the commando become a damage dealing freak job capable of laying down huges amounts of laser fire, explosive destruction, and damaging myhan.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Commando should be able to do exhorbatent amounts of damage to a single target and huge amounts of damage with area of effect attacks. they should not be able to do one hit kills with their attacks but the damage being dealt should be close to incapping a player character if the right weapons are used.All special attacksshould be random HAM bar attacks. they are not specialized in any specific weaponery so they do not get that luxery beyond the basic marksman skills. However the commando should be able to use every marksman skill with his commando weapons. Every other profession can use the specials from the skills needed to get to that profession. The commando is the only combat profession that cannot do this. they are only allowed to use the ranged support specials and the pistol line specials. they need to be able to use all of the skills even if it requires the reworking of a few weapons to make it happen. I will expand on this in offensive abilities. Over all the commando should beTHE damage dealer of the game capable of out damaging every other combat profession in frontloading damage and damage over time. They should be very accurate in doing it, and if they miss the area affact of the explosion will hit.


What offensive abilities?


The commandos offensive abilities should lie in doing as much damage as possible, front loaded and over time with extremely good accuracy with most of their weapons. In starwars most of the rockets and missle were smart missle anyway and highly accurate.


Now alot of the power of the commando comes from their weapons. the flamethrower is the only effective commando weapon in the game right now. Heavy weapons need to be reworked to make them effective. Make the heavy weapons a single launcher with its own stats that can have different types of ammo loaded into it. the ammo can have stats on it that affact the accuracy and damage similar to a weapon power up. The heavy weapons damage should be much more to compete with other professions combat specials sinse the heavy support weapons are the commandos special attacks.


The grenades need to have their delay shortened and HAM costs cut down. It is a fast action to throw a grenade and the time dely on grenades are a safety precaution so the thrower can get out of the area before it explodes. it might be a good idea to let the commando throw the grenade and run away while a timer counts down before it explodes. grenades and heavy weapons should be clumped togather in the same skill three since they are so similar to each other.


Now for making the marksman class a useful part of commando. Turn the heavy acid rifle into an actual rifle with its own random HAM damaging specials, the capability to use the riflemans specials with it, and own skill tree with the launcher pistol. Give it its ownspecified accuracy and speed mods to.Give the launcher pistol a couple soecials and own accuracy and speed mods to. its the commando light side arm and it would be great to see a master commando actually using it to fight.


The final offensive abilities that would complete this commando setup are some unarmed special attacks, unarmed accuracy and speed mods. Nothing in comparison to the TKAs power but two random HAM unarmed attack moves for when the ranged weaponery just wasn't enough to take the attacker down. using unarmed skills and pistol skills it the only time melee and ranged defences should apply in the commandos case.


What defensive abilities?


The commando should not have any defensive abilities beyond a small bit of melee and ranged defence. their defence should lie in having whatever is comming after them dead before it has a chance to do any real damage. this should also be the commandos crutch in combat. status, effects being hit all the time, and having no defense against the dreaded knockdowndizzy combo should be the price the commando pays for the extremely high damage output.


What unique abilities?


Now here is where the commando has has alot of potential. They should get some form of terrain nagotian. most soldiers are condition through long marches and running to cover ground fast, for either into or away from the fight.


Another unique ability the commando should have access to is some form of a machine gun nest. The E-web repeating blaster can be setup here sinse it is a mounted imobile weapon. The nest can be crafted and have hit points, which are determined crafting expiramentation points that the commando gains as he goes up in the skill profession. the commando would become a form of turret keeping the enamy at bay. Since the nest and E-web repeating blaster is imobile it should be capable of one hit kills on unarmored foes and two to three hit kills on armored opponents. other wise the nest will be over runquickly. Also carbine specials from the marksman skill tree can be used with the E-web.


A third unique ability the commando should be able to do is set explosive charges on walls and floors that can be detonated at will. it can be used tactically on opponents by luring them into the blast radius or setting up ambushes for oncomming troops.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Should be the major damage dealer with all the different damage types at the commando's disposal. the random HAM attacks will knock out a good chuck of of one of the HAM bars and one of the HAM bar specific combat profs can take out the rest of the bar's health. the commando should act as croud control doing damage to everything in range.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


The commando in a one on one match against anothe combat profession should lose due to ham bar specific attacks and lack fo defenses if the commando cannot get off the first shot with a heavy weapon. if using the launcher pistol unarmed attacks or heavy acid rifle the commando should be able to give the other professions a good challange.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


For heavy weapon use the commando should be supported by a group of defenders so that he can support them with the mass amounts of damage. For rifle, launcher pistol, and unarmed attacks the commando should be able to hold his own in a fight for a decent amount of time.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Anti vehiculer and anti personal combat support.


extra comments:


The commando reflects most of what I have said, however the commando is to under powered to do this effectively. the range mods on the weapons and horrid accuracy bonuses granted by the commando profession cause the commando to miss half the time. The time delays on all of the commandos special attacks drop his DPS to almost nothing. The Damage malitagation has added another 60 percent damage reduction onto the 75 percent PvP damage reduction (Armored opponents make it a whole lot worse) destroyingwhatever damage a commando is capable of doing with any weapon in his arsonal. and the HAM costs of the weaponsare just as badas a carbineers HAM costs.


Lower those HAM costs, added alot of accuracy and speed, beef up the damage on all of the weapons, and add in all those unique abilities and weapon changes I wrote about you will see commandos doing what they were meant to do. that is blow things up and keep the enamy off of the other professions backs so they can do their part.

Mr-Bungle
Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 pm
#129

Commando Purpose: Provide heavy support in pve, pvp, and base assaults. A commando would be able to handle forward deployments for extended periods on their own.


Ranged / Melee Profession: Provide heavy tank support. with the commando's skill point start on tka, a commando is supposed to set his points up for wearing the heaviest armor. Flamethrower is the primary weapon so he will only flame special so many times vs. other weapon professions. This also indicates he will not worry about HAM drain from his commando specials. The point allocation natural to the commando also prevents him from becomming too powerful. there will be a serious trade off between medic and scout for the rest of your points. As such, the commando would be forced to act as a shield giving and taking tons of damage. Because of their accuracy and lack of healing they are still not using their full potential unless they are in a group.


Redundant Abilities: The Acid Rifle is extremely poor vs a flame thrower in all situations. Because of a commando's heavy support roll this redundant weapon should be replaced with a line of special abilities, making use of the title Ordinance Manufacturer.


Special Abilities: the Rocket Launcher and other heavy weapons should be upgraded mechanics wise. They should buy their specific heavy weapons just like any other weaponsmithed product. They could hotkey it like normal, but then add charges to the gun on your radial menu. The ordinance manufacturer line should not have an acid rifle, but all the grenades and heavy weapons charges proposed. there should be limited survey (just like combat medic has +10 terrain neg) to help a commando find resources so he could make his own charges and grenades. they would be acceptable in power but would need the skills of aweaponsmith to have the experimentation tto make the really good stuff.


Mr-Bungle <Alpha>(former master commando / master tka)

GM Alpha Legion <Alpha>

Mos Alpha, Lok Eclipse

***************************

Ralpha Bungle <Alpha>

Mayor of Mos Alpha




Mr-Bungle
Officer, Alpha Legion
Master Commando
Eclipse
MK-OOI
Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:53 am
#130


What defines theCommando role in combat?


Commandos are elite soldiers used for clandestine missions and heavy combat.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Stealth abilities skill (radar invis unless attacking, camoflauge, sneak attack)


Demolition Skill (Use bombs to destroy enemy structures, grenades, Rocket)


Special Weapon Skill (Assualt Rifle, Flamer, Particle Cannon, Acid Rifle)


Feild Tactics (General Defensive and offensive abilites and bonuses, damage migration, special shots, defense bonuses.)


What offensive abilities?


Able to use Special Weapons and Demolition Weapons.


What defensive abilities?


Ranged DamageMigration and stealth abilities.


What unique abilities?


I think that Commandos should be given a stealth ability simular to the riflemans ability.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Firepower.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


The commando is a specialist, it shouldnt compliment other professions much.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


The commando would rely on the medic, and be backed up by the rifleman. but when the commando isnt sneaking around he should be in the thick of things.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War


Blowing stuff up (like buildings, and vehicles)


Mowing people down (like with a machine gun)

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