Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman

HoardHoard
Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:39 am
#105

What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?


A Rifleman's defining role is their preference to long range weapons. As such, they should have the longest range weapons of all the ranged professions.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


To keep with what I think was TH's intent on this question: The basic combat elements (or "Everyman" combat elements) for a Rifleman should include some small ability to protect ones self at melee range. For a Rifleman, the ability to attack a melee opponent with their rifle would be key. This attack should not do much damage (and may damage their weapon), but it should have a stun component. This would give the Rifleman a chance to get out of Melee range where they are very ineffective.


What offensive abilities?


The offensive abilities should be primarily ranged special attacks. This should be dependant on what type of weapon the Rifleman is using. For instance, a "Sniper" rifle should not be able to do AoE shots. And a "Machine Gun" should not be able to use attacks that target certain pools.


What defensive abilities?


This will also depend on the gun being used: A "Sniper's" primary defense is stealth and concealment. A "Machine Gunner's" defense lies in thier ability to suppress the enemy. When an enemy is under suppression, they should be less accurate as they are afraid to poke thier head out of cover. Finally, either type of rifleman should have a (working) Block ability for when they are caught by a Melee type. (A successful Block may also damage a rifle.)


What unique abilities?


A Sniper should be able to target any pool that they choose. Also, the /aim ability (or a more advanced version of it) should add extra damage to the attack as well as increasing the chance to hit. More over, a sniper should be able to stack /aim mods in order to achieve a "One shot, one kill." effect. (You may want to cap the accuracy benefit, but the damage mod should not be capped. This basically means that if a target is not smart enough to move in the time it will take the sniper to draw a bead on them, then they deserve to get one-shotted.)


Machine Gunners should only have random-pool AoE shots. These shots should be powerful, but less accurate. (The /aim skill should not work with an AoE shot.) AoE should have a Suppression effect on the targets. This can be a state-change (i.e. - Posture Down) or a new effect that makes the target less accurate at range (i.e. - only sticking thier head or for a moment to squeeze off a shot should have a negative effect on accuracy).


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Group dynamics with Rifleman could get interesting. For instance, if a rifleman chooses to use thier less-accurate weapons (Machine Gun type) then they should have a chance of hitting friendly's who are engaged in Melee combat with the enemy. But if they use thier more-accurate weapons (Sniper rifles) then they should be able to assist any group by targetting which ever HAM pool that group is best at targetting. Thier damage will be moderate to high and with AP, there should be damage bonus'.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Rifleman will rely on other professions to keep targets at a distance. The other professions will rely on the Rifleman to deal good, consistant damage to assist with taking down a target.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Rifleman using either the Sniper technique or the Machine Gun technique could be very useful in large battles. But the Sniper should get special missions: Assassinations. These missions would take advantage of a Sniper's stealth and concealment abilities to infiltrate an enemy location/base and take out a single target. The Sniper would get a bonus for eliminating the target with no other casualties. For any other incidental kills, the amount of the mission reward would diminish. (Hence rewarding the stealthy Sniper.)





Epoc Oi'Vey
Master Marksman
Novice Rifleman 3-1-3-2
Novice Creature Handler 3-2-1-2
Some other stuff
Lowca
Kreetlejuice
Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:48 am
#106

All professionsneed a way to deal with the stun damage jawa ion rifle. Not being able to stop mind damage is a killer.
nomis-maharg
Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:16 am
#107

I Have an idea for PvP and PvE styles for a manouver that can be performed by the Rifleman. The skill would be something like sniper shot excepet this is how it would work:


U must take cover successfully first (I know its got bugs but meh)

Then perform Aim (makes the shot more accuratte)

Then perform the shot.


These three would all be automatic under one hotkey. They would take roughly game time (with a standard T21 speed 7.5 to 8.0) would take about 20-30 seconds. When the shot connects (high success rate as takes a long time to perform) the damage would be up to 3-5 times the max damage(3 times in PvP, 5 in PvE)available with their selected weapon regardless of armor due to high armor piercing (note not every rifleman from beggining has the ability to do 3 times max dam only like masters/high level Riflemen)


Perhaps suprise shot could be augmented to this purpose? This would makea rifleman feared in combat as they would be in real life, causing the enemy to go after the riflemen in the squads before attacking anyone else.


It would be lovely to get behind a "tank" such as a tka and perfrom this manouver on the enemy causing high damage. This has to be arranged though so it is a difficult manouver to perform but not imposible leaving the enemy a chance to escape. It would help to create the fear that many associate with snipers.


Alas we shall see..
nolan007
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:35 am
#108



What basic combat elements should they possess? Awesome for LONG range attacks (> 45m) /horrible accuracyfor close encounters (< 40 m). Basically, a rifleman should be standing still, kneeling, or prone, at a long range. They should not be running around firing off shots every 1 second and hitting every time.



What offensive abilities? Basically, I see riflemen has the long range profession with extreme accuracy (at long range), reasonable firing rate,and great power.


However, if they are attacking a target that is less than 40 m distance, while walking or running, they should beEXTREMELY inaccurate (miss 98% of the time). Why? The reason is that I seeing morerifleman templates that are firing off a shot everyONE second -- runningat 30 m distance and hitting almost always. I don't believe the rifleman's role is to shoot everyONE second, hitting every time,while running around at 30 m distances from you. They should be invisible andkeeping still killers (prone / kneeling / standing), attackingat a long range distance.... if they run or walk, they should suffera large accuracypenality and if they are close to you while running while firing, they should almost always miss.







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Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

MSP0
Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:44 pm
#109

It is completely possible to run forward and fire a rifle fairly accurately. This is how assaults happen. I once saw a team of two special forces guys move 100m, side by side hitting the target as they moved forward at a fast trot. They were using 7.62mm FAL assault rifles (Belgian FN If I recall correctly). Never did they fail to hit the target. Not all the shots were bullseyes, but none failed to hit the target.


No, this is not something you should try with a bolt action hunting rifle!





Makkil of Wanderhome - Assistant to the Mayor of New Defiance, Naboo
(Master Rifleman/Master Bio-Engineer)

Supreme Cuisine and BioTech, at the Market in New Defiance
-4267, 3107, On New Defiance, Naboo (1.2km SSE of Theed)
GankKing
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:50 pm
#110



I'll be a bit on the lazy side as well, ditto on what Waste93 had to say.


Just one addition. If you take a look at riflemen in the real world you see that concealment has a very big role in the profession, but in the game it seems to be a little more toned down. Rangers have camo kits, maybe Riflemen should have something much like it. In the real world a sniper will use flora that is around him/her to help conceal themselves (like sticking twigs in their hat, rubbing mud on their clothes or putting snow in their mouths to conceal their breath). How about a forage command that will allow us to do the same and give bonuses to our concealment.



aka
Xien (Hunter)
Thunderhorn server

It might not be Star Wars but...
Neither is SWG anymore
It worked at launch
They acutally fix bugs instead of revamping the game
Blizzard doesn't make you pay to beta test for 2.5 years
It's fun!!!
Maulk
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:04 pm
#111

The devs have said that 64m will always be the max range for combat, that being the case any talk of rifleman being long range stealth snipers is silly.

IMO our role is simple we deal the most damage the fastest at range as a rifle should. We don't get any really decent states to inflict on oponents we don't get a kd or even a posture down what we do get is the ability to deal alot of damage fast to single or multiple opponents, the ability to act as a sniper in a pve ,and the ability to target the mind pool. All at a balanced ham cost with it focusing on the unhealable (unless a cm wants to wound themselves stupid) mindpool. I can not spam any shots unless im hopped up on full buffs including mind buffs and food and even then i have to keep drugs hotkeyed just in case.

we are not snipers and the combat range will never let there be a true sniper for this game (altho as riflemen we should be able to) what we are is a grunt with training in all rifles everything from a hunting rifle ( i refuse to say sniper ) to an m16 type combat rifle to the heavier machine guns like the m60.



just my 2c


Hiro Protagonist


Blowing minds all over the Empire


oh and god i hate munchkin (wana be godlike) trolls that want every class but theirs nerfed cause they cant mindlesly kill them.He delt damage to me NERF!!! omg im a cm i should never lose to a pure combat class master!
Maulk
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:12 pm
#112

frickin no edit button. no offence to all you out there that want us to miss all the time unless we are in the 15 - 20m range you want us to only work in you get close to a guy 5 to 10mwith a fully automatic m16 or m60 who wants to do you bodily harm and you have no cover you might as well change your name to hamburger cause thats what your gona look like when he is done with you.




Hiro Protagonist


Blowing minds all over the Empire
srdgsdf
Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:10 pm
#113



I think Rifleman along with a few other professions should the the option of going 'undercover'(dont mistake this with cover, maybe it could be added to it). But when the Rifleman goes undercover his radar blip dis appears. This would add much to the 'feel' of being a 'sniper' sitting in the grass from 64m away blasting away. Going 'UnderCover' would be for PvP(it's basically the equalto Conceal shot just for PvP).

JediNg
Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:47 pm
#114

I Think you're forgetting something... The weapon. The T21 is more of a machine gun than it is a sniper rifle... The T21 is NOT a sniper rifle, and we should get a sniper weapon system of some sort.. that would be nice.



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Xytroncore
Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:08 am
#115






MSP0 wrote:

It is completely possible to run forward and fire a rifle fairly accurately. This is how assaults happen. I once saw a team of two special forces guys move 100m, side by side hitting the target as they moved forward at a fast trot. They were using 7.62mm FAL assault rifles (Belgian FN If I recall correctly). Never did they fail to hit the target. Not all the shots were bullseyes, but none failed to hit the target.


No, this is not something you should try with a bolt action hunting rifle!








Forward....how often do riflemen run towards their enemy in this game? No, they strafe and run backwards, happen to see how you hold the rifle when you do that? It is completely stupid to see them conect on every shot while you hold the rifle with one hand pointed behind you...completely stupid.



_________________________________________________________
Manimal : Gunslinger
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:48 am
#116

It's completely stupid to see a CM throw an Area poison that only affects imperials or rebs.


It's completely stupid to get KD'ed in a prone postition.


It's completely stupid to dodge speed of light laser fire.


There's alot of completely stupid things in this game.





I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
AltharXXX
Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:16 am
#117

PVP : Why does a concealed (/takecover) rifleman using /concealedshot draw fire from "autodefending" player targets?


Roles ? Well it's a bit late for this now. Those of us who earned the title of master sharpshooter before the last two sets of nerfs have watched the profession be ground out in days and dropped for the tripe that it has become.


HAM rates are too high for this profession. I've watched people mastering carbine and pistol - and the degree to which they have pool draining problems is nothing compared to rifleman. (Sharnaff hunts are a great place to see just how the combat system works.)


Who ever thinks the 2.5x mod was a fair and good way to handle things should consider this; pistol 3 and carbine 3 can just stand there in spots where thugs spawn and clean up - no problem what so ever. A rifleman who wasn't nearly a master had to run or die.





Althar Maru, Flurry Janta Assassin
status: retired

Would you care to test out a 400 year old sword to see if it's decayed to condition 0? All the prior testers have no comment. Perhaps a gun which was used in WW I and still fires with high accuracy upto 1km?

If that doesn't get you, then start reading current military specifications for combat equipment.
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