Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 10 Feedback: Jedi Revamp Part 2, The Jedi Trials
OHafi
Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:18 am
#1041
I would like to say that I really love what you have done for the revamp. I love the village, the quests and the fact that it is hard to do. Grinding? Well, that is what anything worth doing is. Usually a grind, imho. But that is ok. Well done, Devs. I like hearing of the trials the current Jedi have to do, and I kinda like hearing them whine about how hard it is. The only problem I see is the ranking system. I wish you could make the ranking system maybe based on a tournament, held weekly? monthly? in the enclaves. Dark and Light seperate of course. And maybe the tournament could have two parts, pvp and KNOWLEDGE of the path of a Jedi.
Just my two cents worth and thank you for your hard work!
j0ust
Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:12 am
#1042
Here's a familiar sounding story, having read these boards. Myself and several of my guildmates basically decided last Sunday that we'vehad enough now. We're veteran players, done most of what there is to be done, and wewere all so looking forward to this groovy new village with its engaging content and rewarding quest-based path to Jedi Knighthood.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Oh, you got us, SOE, you got us but good. More fool us for listening, I guess, you have an enviable track record in dashing customer expectation.
Now we've decided that you've taken enough of our hard earned, and we're heading into Final Fantasy XI instead. Congratulations, Sony Online Entertainment, you are putting money directly into the coffers of your competitiors.
Because you don't listen
Because you don't care
Because you are crappingall over theStar Wars licence, and relying on itto keep your customershanging on, and on, and on...
SOE, just be honest. Just charge people a flat fee for Jedi Initiate. 100 bucks maybe? $5 per FS skillbox? Hmmm? I know I'd rather pay up front and get my initiate now than grind out the next few months in the company of huurtons and quenkers.Over, and over, and over, and over again. But maybe not. Nah, I wouldn't bother even paying to jump the queue, just to be able to wield a lightsaber. Particularly when everyone else will be doing the same.
No, no, no, silly me. That's strictly short term. You wanna bleed us suckers dry, dont'cha? Dangle the carrot and snatch it back before we get a bite. But you're not going to be complacent too much longer. Maybe you'll wake up around the time that World of Warcraft poaches half your customer base.
Anyway, so long and thanks for the fun, SWG used to be fun as I recall. As things stand now, with friends leaving everyday, not even JTL is going to save your game. Grinding in space? Not for me, pal. Kind of kills the magic, really.
And that's really all SOE have managed, in the long run. Killed the magic of Star Wars. Congrats, fellahs. Good job. Wake up and smell the poodoo. SWG is sinking fast.
NodozeHyde2
Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:20 pm
#1043
i agree with ur false advertising sttement but i know some ppl who will get jedi withinn the next 6 weeks if u have 2 seperate master professions u can unlock 2 seperate branches a phase ans i know allot of ppol got at least 2 branches free so it should only take them 2 phases and sure the xp is steep but this is to keep jedi rare for now since they are still uber to tell u the truth if the devs made it easy for simple 1-2 players a day to get jedi the econmy would be ruined even faster if u want jedi u gotta work for it im not a faanboy at all but ist dissipointing to see pepole cry just because there not willing to put in the work to get it and the reason they cant make jedi easy to get is cause you are right it is the only thing left to do not after 6 months of playing this game ist the only thing left to do aftr about 3 weeks if there were other intresting things in this game we wouldnt have 3 publishes just for jedi.
Negative ghostrider..... You can only do 1 quest per phase. 1 quest= 1 branch, and there is no way to go around it. PS. Good luck with your protest, I hope the devs change a few things.
Nodoze Hyde-
Sunrunner
JRBaldauf
Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:50 pm
#1045
You protest to change something. My char's on Bria, make sense to do it there, huh? Everyone has their comment about this. The point is that we want change. The wookies did it, didn't they? The could've chose to not participate in PvP. Basically, I'm at the point where I will stay on if there's change and if there's not I'm gone. I'm trying to make that change happen. I believe this game could be awesome ifthe devs got their heads together and worked at it. I know they're (probably) not sitting on their hands, and that JTL is coming out, but I'd like to make my character a Jedi before I leave.
Lucid_Flurry
Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:39 pm
#1047
Earning Force Sensitive Skills
Force sensitive skills are broken into four Force discipline skill trees: Combat, Reflexes, Crafting, and Senses, each having four branches. There is a quest for each branch that will evolve through each phase of the Village. Once complete, the skill branch is unlocked. Unlocking the branch simply enables the player to learn those skills - GATE?from the village skill trainer. He or she must still meet the experience requirements. - HOLO GRINDING x100?
Force sensitive skills are broken into four Force discipline skill trees: Combat, Reflexes, Crafting, and Senses, each having four branches. There is a quest for each branch that will evolve through each phase of the Village. Once complete, the skill branch is unlocked. Unlocking the branch simply enables the player to learn those skills - GATE?from the village skill trainer. He or she must still meet the experience requirements. - HOLO GRINDING x100?
Mezzellion
Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:56 pm
#1048
SWGbum wrote:
Just like everyone else i am about 99% sure that this will go either unread or un-cared about. The conversion rates either be lowered or the required #of branches must. I was fortunate enough to be able to have 1 free branch, but doing 5 more is just as bad. I was hoping that the quests would be a great boost to the game....all it did was reincarnate the "holo grind". It is basically the same thing and you know it. In the holo grinding way u needed to grind xp to master professions. In this so called "quest" based system...u complete a quest and upon completing this quest the nice npc tells u that u are now allowed to grind yourself to death in the branch u just unlocked. This is really rediculous. It is strictly experience grinding. It is exactly the same as the holo grinding way except theres no more holos.....instead of looting holocrons u now need to perform a quest, then u master. This needs to be fixed, action must be taken or else many people will most likely quit SWG, i have been playing for a year and to tell you the truth the game content has been pretty bad for my entire experience. All im asking is to fix this, it is a terribly long grind, even worse than the holo grind. We were promised a quest based system and this is not it.
This about sums it up for most of the players in the game. TH, Devs, SOE -- get it together. Quests DO NOT involve endless grinding. Quests should invovle making decisions and having progression along either path that is chosen (not just the pass/fail system that is currently in place). If this stays as is, expect to see a large number of the returning players cancel accounts again; along with quite a few more cancellations. The game needs to be fun and enjoyable for all, and GRINDING IS NOT FUN !! GRINDING IS NOT CONTENT !!
-Mezz
Darkua
Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:59 pm
#1049
Personaly I think they already layed down the base of what should be done its takes what 22 WEEKS to go threw the 6 phazes of the village one person needs to get threw to JUST get the ability to start to work on jedi I mean now there are JEDI TRIALS more quests..... Only those who really want to make jedi will really make it. NOT to mention the Jedi still has its penitalies...... I mean there are still tons of death penitalies that will keep the jedi population down and to those who are really ment to play the jedi class.... add in the fact there are ALT too keep the economy strait not everyone wants to be under watch 24/7 and hunted by BH..... Not to mention having a BH alt to hunt down those Jedi you hate LOL I mean thats what this game is suppost to be about role playing having fun and having a quests that relates to Starwars....... I don't remember LUKE SKYWALKER fighting a bunch of mobs over and over and over to get jedi I remember a Jedi Training with YODA.......
Jedi_Master_Fiction
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:04 pm
#1050
Like i said in some other posts this grinding needs to end and it needs to be full of hard quests that take hrs to do even days. This non stop grinding sucks with the conversion rates. Make the quests FUN and HARD ( and im talking hard )and LONG (very long)and put a timer on the quests in between so you can only finish 1 quest a week or every 3 weeks or something this keeps the content good and the jedi pop moving in slow. It lets players take a break from the grinding and all focus on the edi this Jedi that and lets players take a break to have fun with guild mates and participate in the GCW.
Then after they finish how many ever quests to get the FS branch boxes full 24 smallHARD quests to get each box trained no grinding with shrot timers maybe 2-3 days and 6 long SUPER HARD quests to unlock the trees you want. Thats 18 weeks to unlock the skills and 48 days to get the skills trained. Then maybe a final longer quest that takes a few days to do (like a final trial) to finally unlock after30 long hard quests (spanning over weeks of time) where you have to kill the dark jedi and prove your self to the Jedi council that you are strong enough and ready to start your training. With this you would wait 24hrs or so for theJedi Council to grant youyour training rights and give you yourMaster.The quest you add should contain random things so its diffrent for every player and they should be solo quests. With riddles, puzzles, killing, defending, helping, and healing.
Then when you Unlock you have the inate/Knight system implemented where a Padawan gets a master (A knight) and a knight has a master (A guardian) and so on so your master will train you in the skills you want and guide you along the path to the next level and only your master no one else. This to would take along time and not only would there be more hard quests to do that had timers but would also bring the grinding into play where you gain xp to have your master train you in your professions. Then after you earn enough XP to unlock so many professions and do quests you should be able to start on the trials to the next level. They should be solo and should not have any guidence from the master. The quests should be again long and hard spanning over a few weeks time maybe15 quests that get harder as you move along that span over 3 weeks so you can prove your selfto theJedi council and this would be the time where you can chose sides of Dark and Light. This is where the master Exchange would take place. If you go Dark you get a new master. Also at Intinate you would getto craft a Gen 1light saber and a robe
After you hit padawan it stays the same as before. you get a new robe will have to craft a Gen 2 saber Grinding xp to have your master guide you on the right pathand train you and help you out. At this time you would start to show up on BH terms and would be hunted by the Empire and NPC bounty hunters. Once a BH kills you you lose XP but then are off the bounty hunter terminal. For the BH's killing the jedi they get a large cash rewardthey geta badge of how many jedi they have killed(say 1 badge at 5one at 20 one at 40 etc) and also after so many get some sort of an itemlike a light saber with the Jedis name on it that you can put in your house. The Dark Jedi and Light Jedi would have to do diffrent quests the Light quests would be harder and take longer than Dark. Why you ask? because Light is always harder to get and take more timepatients and compassion. There should then be a higher number of quests from 15-20 that take a long timenot 3 weeks this time 5, And get harder and yet again SOE im going to say this AND ARE FUN!!.
When you do finaly unlock the Ranking of Knight (this will be voted on council you will be perma PvP) you get a new robe will have to craft a Gen 3 light saber you will be given a padawan this padawan will be picked out by the council. This road will get VERY hard and will consist of more grinding to have your master train you and will also have more quests to unlock branches like all the other levels of jedi. This time it will go from 20-30 hard trial quests alone spanning over weeks of time and will show up more on the BH terms. If a BH kills a knight the knight will lose xp and the BH will gain a Special badge from the Empire that is theequivelent to a medal of honor in the US millitary.
When you are finaly ready to reach the rank of Jedi Master /Dark Jedi Master you will be voted on by the jedi council and will have to craft a Gen 4 saber. Youwill now have no master will have to fend for your self when getting attacked by BH's and will have to doso many ExtreemlyHard quests to be recognized as a true Jedi Master. BH's will now see you on mission termsfaster when you use the force or saber in player citys or ifan imp of any kind sees youand NPC BH's will hunt you at all times. If you are killed by a BH you will lose even more XP after about20 or soplayer BH's killing you you will become a blue glow. And when a BH kills you they recive another Badge saying they did so will gain a HIGH HIGH pay out andwill recive special items for doing so.
The leader's of the Dark and Lightcouncil to chose how a master gets a padawan will get lets say get e-mails with all the people that have got FS and are ready to be Intinate and will be givin to a Jedi Knight to have as a Padawan theknight will have to craft the Init. a training saberthus, itmakes it longer for people to fully unlock because the top 2 members cant be on 24/7 and there is a 24hr wait to be voted on.
For the BH terms there would be a system set up for how many times you use the force or saber in public or if some one sees you. Lets say it takes 5000 visibility to reach a BH terminal. Well you use the force that takes off400 so now you have4600 points leftbefore you are on a terminal. You use your saber that would also be like 100 or something so then you have 4500 points to go. This all adds up over time tell you are at 0 when you are at 0 you are free game for BH's to hunt you down the only way to gain back the points so you arnt on the terminal is to gain like 1 point per hr you arnt killed by a player bount hunterand would need 4points to be back off the terminal or if you are killed by a player BH or kill the BH thats after you, you are off instantly with 5000points of cover. Per every hour you arnt seen by an Imp or an NPC you gain 1 point back. And the higher in rank you are the less points you have 5000 at padawan 3000 at Knight 1000 at Master. I know the points are high but you cant really make a number that would work with out testing this to see. dark/light Jedi would NEED to be on BH terms some times so it would need to be adjusted so they were. That and when BH's take on a mission to kill a jedi they can not be in a group with more than 0 for padawan 3 for Knight and master.
Tell me what you think of this and flame away if you must 
Mezzellion
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:20 am
#1051
Tange wrote:
Hiya People
Just to say from my own point of view amdoing jedi and it is very difficult but in a way ifeel its quite good cause cud u image if it was as easy as everyone wanted how many jedis there wud be on the game it wud be ridiculous. In the end wat everyone wants in the game is jedi i dnt no why there are other professions cause no one is ever gonna want them they jus want jedi which then thegame willbe notvery good, there others are jus there to get jedi but at sum stage the game will have hardy any people with any other professions and it will jus be jedi vs jedi theres not even that many bounty hunters which is mad cause there jedis r not gonna have any challenges but fighting themselves. But as i say i think its good how it is jus get ya heads down and get grindin lol
There in lies the problem. If the majority of players are grinding now, then come November there will be tons of Jedi in game. Most players want to be a jedi because its best Proffession set in the game. Even added to a template, jedi skills make that template better.
Putting the current mountain of grinding xp in front of playersonly stops players from playing the game --by that I mean players either quit or grind toward the xp from a mission terminal (neither of these is playing the game). This also will not solve the jedi population problem - it just delays the growth only slightly.
If SOE really wants to make the game NOT turn into KOTOR Online, then two things need to happen:
- Players Jedi need to be on the second charater slot ONLY. They need to be limited characters that can only do the jedi trees, and are the only characters that can do the jedi trees. Allow FS to reamin on the primary character.
- No deeds for the jedicharacter as it throws off the ratio of 10 lots per account per server. It also messes with the original concept of player cities allowing 1 account to have 2 citizens (but this works in the players favor)
- Jedi should be allowed to have ships
- Jedi XP progression should be faster (yes easier - read on I explain why)
- Jedi need to die - sorry but permadeath needs to be put back in for the Jedi character slot. This is why the xp progression should be faster for them. This should not delete the charater slot, and would allow the player to create another jedi to play again. The time period SOE based the game in is a time when the Jedi have been all but wiped out; they are being hunted down and killed. In game, the number of deaths should be based on the charaters skill levels.
- New Jedi start with8 deaths.
- For every 2 skill boxes achieved the jedi gets 1 extra death (tracked seperately so no repeat awards are possible)
- For each master box you get 2 deaths (again tracked seperately)
- after all deaths have been expended the character becomes a blue glowy until server reset. This locks the jedi slot and a new jedi cant be created until the next day. (or longer if SOE wants to get the players to go back to their primary character)
These changes really need to be made to stop the over population of jedi in the game, what SOE currnetly has is genre breaking.
-Mezz
Tharien
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:48 am
#1052
Message Edited by Tharien on 09-13-200410:11 AM
Message Edited by Tharien on 09-13-2004 10:11 AM
Tange
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:59 am
#1053
I agree with mezz action does need to be takin or there will be too many jedi's and its the people that are moaning about getting it that shudnt have it and those who are prepared to but in the effort that shud. Cause in the end jedi shudnt be easy to get it shud take time and if people arent prepared to take on the challenge and try there hardest to get it they shudnt bother and they shud jus get a other profession that is fairly good and stick with taht cause they wont get jedi they will end up quitin the game which wud be a shame when u think how detailed and well made the game is already.
Tange 