Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando
Subutai wrote:
Nerf Flamedots. There are no defenses vs Flamedot at all (got 25% def vs fire and still be doted all the time).Nerf it, delete it. Flamedots are unfair, unbalanced and not Starwarsy at all.
Buff up, where a good set of comp armor, and now you have 10 seconds (note, this isnt how long you have to live, this is how long the commando is now delayed before he can do ANYTHING else) to do what you will to this commando who you let within 16 m of you (no excuse unless you're melee). If you can't take down a defenseless pc in 10 seconds, pvp isn't for you. I havent been killed by a commando in over 2 months. Why, because after playing one, I know it's weaknesses, and how depressingly easy it is to kill one (no other combat class is eaiser to kill). Don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, when a commando flames you, unload on him, drop him, deathblow him, now let the doc in your group stim you and heal your wounds. If no doc is present, just stim (I'm assuming you DO pvp with the ability to heal dmg or with someone who can) and all that nasty dot did was debuff you're health bar, while the commando is busy cloning in the cloning facility.
Back to the point of this thread, some points that havent been touched on in this thread are indoor/outdoor scenarios. The flame thrower is a very inaccurate weapon (even at master it misses more than most combat professions), however, in an indoor area, there is no place to dodge, or block, or run for that matter. Perhaps some type of accuracy modifier for indoor fighting with the flamethrower. With the huge nerf coming on this weapon (the only currently working one for commandos), this idea could perhaps provide a role for this weapon. After all, the last time this weapon was used in real warfare actively, it was used primarily to clear out enemy bunkers. This would also make it a more situational weapon as I believe it was more intended to be. This would inturn open up the light repeating blaster suggestion that's been made to become the commando's every day weapon. Which in the scheme of whata commando is, makes more sense anyways.
Outdoor battles, this would be where the E-Web comes into play, as this would be a fantastic support weapon for both seiges and defenses above ground. The idea being it would fire repeating blasts of energy over an area, allowing either troops to advance to an enemy held position or in turn helping to ward off enemy attackers trying to engage your position. Of course the commando would be an easy target if outflanked, or attacked from the rear, as setting up and taking down an E-Web should take some time.
Your opinion that the flame DoT is a valid opinion. Please hash it out. Come up with a valid class designation and design for us to mull over. That is what we are doing in this thread.
Redesign, not change.
---Sahnd
Kettemoor
I listed this in a thread I made so I might as well put it here in the hopes someone with the ability to get these things implemented will read it:
I think that a completely new class is never going to happen. So let's just hope that they listen and implement some fixes.
After mastering commando once, then dropping it because of the 2.5x dmg from melee then mastering it again...this is what I think are some reasonable changes I'd like to see implemented:
(Thunderheart...your opinion?)
The Field Tactics Line: Currently grenades have no use besides getting good combat xp. I'd like to see grenades be given some posture/status changes. Perhaps proton grenades could knock an opponent down, while other grenades are capable of dizzy/stun.Also commando's are suppose to be efficient soldiers, there should be added terrain negotiation bonuses in the feild tactics line....I was thinking+5 for every field tactics box with a bonus of +5 at master. Many players may not agree with my idea for this line but one thing is for sure....this portion of commando is currently useless and needs some help.
The Heavy Weapon Support Line: Honestly I don't know much about the current quality of this line. Why? Because I don't bother paying 50k for 20 rocket that do less damage than my flamethrower. We don't mind the price of the weapons, we can all deal with that. The problem with the portion of commando is that we aren't getting our money's worth. These weapons should be completely ineffective against "soft" targets such as other players and NPC's. They should perform amazing at destroying structures....such as towers/turrets..at-st's.
The Flamethrower Specialization Line: Ah, the almighty flamthrower. I don't think any other weapon in this game is as hated or controversial. Many think the weapon is overpowered. I do not, however I do agree that the weapon needs to be tweaked. (Notice I use the word tweak and not nerf) Currently this weapon is the commando's only saving grace. It is the only weapon that a commando can use with any positive results. I would suggest reducing the duration of the flame DOT. Perhaps not the amount of damage that each "tick" of the DOT consumes....but definitely shorten the time that they last. If a player on the opposing side of a flamethrower is hit a second time by the DOT, then all bets should be off. The DOT shouls begin anew and proceed to induce wounds. Given the change of a commando actually hittingtheir target twice in a row, I don't think this is too much to ask. Keep the 18m range for specials. In the end a balance must be reached for this weapon.
The Acid Rifle Line: This is the most useless weapon in all the galaxy. It is nothing more than a flamethrower Jr, or Diet flamethrower or even a flamethrower Lite...you get the point. It is 1: Less powerful 2: Slower, 3: Has no DOT. All these things combined make it so a commando will NEVER have a reason to use it. I do admit...it does acid damage...but seriously what creature is there in this game that is vulnerable to acid that our flamthrowers won't take care of? I would suggest either removing this line all together or turn the H.A.R (heavy acid rifle) into some type of energy weapon. Something that is no where near as powerful as the flamethrower but is fast and VERY accurate. If the developers do decide to not take the risk of creating a new weapon, then I (and 99% of commandos) must insist that something must be done for the H.A.R.'s animation. I'm normally not so finiky about such things, but the default attack for the heavy acid rifle looks like it's shooting sticks.
Other ideas: The launcher pistol needs three things: 1: Speed mods. 2: Accuracy mods 3: Specials. This NEEDS to happen. Personally, I would love it if the heavy acid rifle was removed and a launcher pistol skill tree was added. However I would change the classification (and name) of the launcher pistol to heavy weapons (not pistol) and re-name it the "launcher cannon." From my experience in this game the launcher pistol is the only weapon that is certed to a novice of a profession that gets no mods or specials from within that profession. That makes no sense. The bounty hunter gets mods and specials for carbine....and they dont even get a carbine cert at novice. (Not attempting to insult BH's, Im just trying to point out the developers inconsistencies....) If the following changes were implemented....the entire commando tree would be worthwhile...not just 25% of it.
As it is now a grenedeer is a master commando who has enough sense to keep their skill points for something useful.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
a : a military unit trained and organized as shock troops especially for hit-and-run raids into enemy territory b : a member of such a unit
What basic combat elements should they possess?
To be able to have the use of heavy weapons and explosives.
What offensive abilities?
Fast and hard offensive skills.
What defensive abilities?
They should have ahigh level of toughness.
What unique abilities?
To have supreme accuracy and speed with high damage Weaponry, like Rocket Launchers.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
They should be used to attack large armored targets.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be used for strictly for PvE and PvP
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
No major attack should be done without a Commando.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be the biggest fear of the opposing faction.
Request For Comments:
Commandos should have a better use of their explosives. Right now, grenades and detonators do very little affect.
thiostan (see thread 5-6 posts up)makes the most sense here. The SWG definition of a Commando is way off base, and instead I'm a Heavy Weapons Specialist.
The Commando is quick, agile, stealthy and deadly, however they aren't shock troops. SWG's version of a Commando is at best, a comparison to Machine Gun crew .... Big F'ing Guns going head to head against tangos. Commandos don't want that, they go around, they hit on their own terms.
I'm not crazy about Acid Rifles, or Flamethrowers ... I wish the Commando would be more apt in either pistols, carbines or rifles the way BH's are with pistols and carbines. I'm not even crazy about grenades, I mean... how much certification do you need to throw a grenade? Honestly. If you are going to put in some grenades, or like devices, put in flash bangs or smoke grenades.
I guess I'm sort of cranky on how SWG has determined that if I want to be a Commando, I need to use flamethrowers, acid rifles, or heavy weapons, or if I'm going to be a BH, I need to use pistols, carbines or LLCs.
I would of really appreciated if a system was in put place where you learn various skills, and it is left up to the player to determine who they are. Sorry, but your a Bounty Hunter, and you can't use a flamethrower, or Sorry but if you want to learn how to Slice, you need to learn how to shoot pistols and fight with your hands. Dumb, if I want to slice, I should learnabout computers, not some predesigned path.
/Rant Off
This is obviously the "heavy weapons specialist" profession. Someone made a reference to WW2 commandos, with the misguided belief that those soldiers emplyed heavy antitank and antipersonnel weapons. That is wrong, a typical commando in the historical wars of our world has been more of an infiltration role. That is, stealth skills, light weapons for close combat and then bringing explosives/whatever needed to do the job. They were not meant for open battle, and so are very far from everything the commando profession in SWG currently stands for.
Now, since all the SWG commando's skills deal with heavy weapons, this is obviously (and should continue to be) its defined role - the artilleryman if you will. There is definitely a niche to fill here, and the commando profession does that nicely (at least in its concept). There is absolutely no melee ingredients to it, which is also why THE UNARMED PREREQUISITE SHOULD BE REMOVED.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Big guns. Heavy beam weapons and things that go "boom".
What offensive abilities?
High-damage, expensive weapons. Preferably with some degree of accuracy greater than the current. If you bother making the effort of designing a big and very expensive weapon, why do you not spend just a little more time improving its targeting abilities? In real life, there is no natural link between "large" and "inaccurate" for ranged weapons - usually it is the opposite.
What defensive abilities?
Good ranged defense, as they should specialize in ranged combat. This should be balanced by totally awful melee defense. "What, it came this far in one piece? Run!"
What unique abilities?
Being able to use heavy weapons. To knock out vehicles, shoot down ships, and blast through heavy armour.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Heavy ranged support. Targeting the heavy opponents, and dishing out high-level raw damage.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Weaponsmiths will be their best friends. The smith makes money, the commando gets the tools of his trade. As I think HW powerups should be added, they will also need artisans for that, to make maximum use of their expensive guns. Armoursmiths, as they will have to stand for hits if the opponent closes to melee range. As for anyone, healers and doctors will be useful. Being a very specialized warrior, the commando will also make good use of fighing in a group.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
In tough fights, the commando should be dependent on melee fighters to keep the enemy at a suitable distance and allow the commando to blast away with the artillery instead of having to go toe-to-toe with his fists (oh, the horror!).
Also, the state effects of other ranged professions will be useful, as the commando's weapons will be mainly focuseed on just hitting for high damage.
The other professions will need the commando simply for the high damage-dealing effect. He should be able to quickly knock things out with a few heavy blasts, as the others tank or debilitate the target with their specials.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Taking out hard targets, like ATSTs, turrets, walls, ships if they ever show up. In general, being the artillery contingent.
What defines theCommando role in combat? To hurt people and break things. The ability to deal massive damage basically. Non specific to any one pool in ham, I've seen them as just the one that dish out raw damage.
What basic combat elements should they possess? The ability to give and receive damage. I see them as beinghigh intensitycombat specialists.
What offensive abilities? Do big damage, non targetable
What defensive abilities? Ability to absorb damagewith less side effects (state changes). Not damage evasion, they're more of the classic tank of the ranged classes in my book
What unique abilities? lowered ham costs for armor, fits with the high intensity combat motiff
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? Tankage and pure DPS, without state changes nescarily. And they should be the structure vechile killers.
How could/should they interact with other professions? By shooting them...hehheh, just kidding, but pretty much that's it. They are a pure combat class, that's their job. They should be the lynch pin in shooting group, trying to draw the fire while tossing it back
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? Well, they'll depend on healers, and other ranged and melee classes for doing state effects.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? Structure and vehicle killers, and in my opinion the body armor specialist, along with demolitions, though the gernades are garbage now.
That's it I guess.