Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Group Friendly Looting
Darth_Spike
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:15 pm
#92
I have only one concern with the Random Roll and Lottery methods, and that is that they should be PSEUDO-RANDOM and not truly random. In a truly random system, it is posible that the same person might get an item more than once, and this would only tick people off and cause them to report a bug.
In the Random Roll method this can be solved easily enough, by making the game "cross-off" a person from the list of receivers once they get an item. This way everyone knows that if they didnt get an item yet, then they are due soon.
On the Lottery system, it can be slightly more tricky. I will use one of the examples used by the Devs:
After a while the party kills a Stormtrooper. The Stormtrooper has a communicator and a rifle.
- Han decides he wants the rifle since it does more damage than his pistol. He chooses the rifle and ignores the communicator.
- Luke wants the communicator but not the rifle. He chooses the communicator and ignores the rifle.
- Leia wants the communicator and the rifle so she selects both.
- Chewie wants the rifle as well but not the communicator so he selects the rifle.
- Since Han, Chewie, and Leia all want the rifle the game selects a random number between 1 and 3 and gives the winner the rifle. In this case it selects 2 and gives the rifle to Leia.
- Since Luke and Leia both want the communicator the game selects a random number between 1 and 2 and gives the winner the communicator. The game selects 2 and gives the communicator to Leia as well.
- Since Han, Chewie, and Leia all want the rifle the game selects a random number between 1 and 3 and gives the winner the rifle. In this case it selects 2 and gives the rifle to Leia.
In this example, Leia gets 2 items, everyone sees that Leia gets 2 items, and there is now a posible point of contention - why let the point come about at all when some intelligence can be added.
1. Items with a Single Interest Taker are given to that single individual.
2. After allSingle Interest Taker items have been handed out, then Multiple Interest Taker items are handled, but individuals that already received an item are removed from the Interest List. If an item ONLY had Interest Takers that had already received OTHER items,THEN AND ONLY THEN would the item be selected purly randomly - making the lot distribution "SEEM" more fair and even.
3. The system should keep track of party members in the Lottery system the way it would in the Random Roll system, giving preference to Party Members that have not received an item over those that have. In the examples from the Clicky, Luck and Leia both receiverrd items the first time. So when the second item comes along (the example above), Han and Chewie would both be given preference over Leia for the Rifle, but Luke and Leia would have equal footing for the Communicator, since both were interested and both had received items previously.
In conclusion, a new system should employ some mechanism that gives the appearance of even distributiion, instead of relying on random statistical mechanics. By making the distirbution seem more flat, it will casue far less complaints and contention.
FignarKrynn
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:59 pm
#93
I've never found the looting to be a problem when i am grouped as i am always grouped with friends so need before greed is always the rule. What i would like to see is something similar to Ever Quest 2 where the mobs get locked to your group or individual when you attack it so that it stops the leet kill steelers and general low life of the server who camp POI spawns i.e Krayt dragons from making peoples experiences of the game a bad one.
Lethian_Tulkhas
Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:45 am
#94
yes i read the loot system before making my post.
I still say it is not good. I would like a nice new loot system but this one is not a good one..Sure all teh options are nice...but none of them but the original is any good......
pop up messages in combat?
Fix the non-group kill stealing THAT would be usefull.
Scoooter
Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:17 am
#95
This looks awsome.
Usually our guild has a master looter with a lottery at the end rolling an in game dice to determine who actually gets it based on whether they want it. The lottery example automates that nicely at that time and place.
ZtyXDk
Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:22 am
#96
Ohh, the lottery and the master looter is very nice.
And I like that the corpses that werent looted can be looted by all now!
Wyntyr
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:20 am
#97
I think you are wrong about group leaders. In EQ2, you can check to see what the looting option is. Under the "lottery" system there, every charcter is clearly shown what is on the corpse and has an equal chance of getting it.
As far as dealing with greedy group leaders... First, the group would figure it out immediately if the lader cahnged the loot option to benefit only himself. Second, in very short order, no one would ever join that person's group.
And as far as "humans" being greedy... I am a Twi'lek 
Wyntyr - Master Armorsmith -- Master Merchant
Khalann - Master Swordswoman -- Master Pikechick
Allycia Navae - Uber wimp
"That which does not kill me only delays the inevitable"
Khalann - Master Swordswoman -- Master Pikechick
Allycia Navae - Uber wimp
"That which does not kill me only delays the inevitable"
atytula
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:59 am
#98
Lethian_Tulkhas wrote:
yes i read the loot system before making my post.
I still say it is not good. I would like a nice new loot system but this one is not a good one..Sure all teh options are nice...but none of them but the original is any good......
pop up messages in combat?
Fix the non-group kill stealing THAT would be usefull.
But thats the point. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. The old system is still available if you prefer it.
atytula
Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:20 pm
#99
Dea_ wrote:
I really like the idea.
If people are in solo group, just let the system as it is.
The only thing that should be added is to make just one loot from a number of items with the same serial number. like 7 identical jantas hide being one loot.
From what I can tell, only people in "range" can go for the lottery so if you are the only one around,. you automatically win the item.
LordDixch
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:01 pm
#100
Call me stupid for asking but why are there in testing and other similar forums when you can post in them.....The posts that are there are generaly worthless anyways so WHY have them?
SSFSM
Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:33 pm
#101
kiyrilla wrote:
BAD IDEA!!
Eq2 has this, and it doesn't work fairly. The current looting system works fine imo, but adding this is a game breaker for me. I play EQ2 and EQ, and in both games I solo in them. Espeacially in EQ2. The looting system there is horrible. If in a group, the mobs don't drop coins, only items, to be sold, and when the lottery, or 'lotto' is enabled, you have be the winner to get the item, and in a group of 10, you will not get anything. This game the npcs drop credits, or an item,or both, or nothing. In EQ2, people have a very difficult time trying to find and form groups, because of the loot options, and the death exp. I know i'm going to get flamed about not being a team player of stuff, and why do I play this type of game, but as a member of a team, or group, I would like something for my time as a part of the group, and not just the experince. Some time you don't get that either, but they fix it. To give an example, You're doing a cave crawl through the geo caves, and all that time you have only in your inventory, few worthless pieces of junk. Stuff a junk dealer won't buy, but you haer you group mates bragging about the items they got. You ask if they give you something, and they will tell you, you should've bidded on it, you did. Trust me,I had this happen to me too many times. If you complain about it, they put you on their ignore lists, for the next time they are forming groups, not that ever happen to me, but I have heard and seen in the forums of players being short-changed this way. If you put this loot style in SWG, more people will complain. Leave it the way it is. The only wayI see this would work is in entertainer groups, because most players target the dancer/musician that actually there, no macroed-afkers, lol. This wouldn't work in groups that are doing destroy missions. If doing creature destroy mission, the reward would go to the person, that got the mission, and the rest get nothing, unless they are a scout or ranger. Npc destroy mission, you have the problem of certain number of group members always getting the best loot, and getting all the credits.
I know how the Devs work, they will go ahead and do it. As i done with JTL, because of the grouping rule on the final tiers of the pilot profs,I don't fly anymore. andno groups will be accepted by me.
I don't know about you, but my guild (<HELM>
Hunts together for the benefit of the entire guild. We rarely have ANY problems with distributing loot. In fact we have a system in place when we hunt for pearls. We establish a list of party members, in order of acceptance in the group, and go down the list. First pearl to the first person, second to the second, etc. It's fair and equitable. Those of us who are Jedi may or may not get a decent pearl out of the deal, but we never complain. It's part of the randomness of the loot system and we enjoy it.
I'm not flaming your post, but maybe you should consider grouping with friends and/or guildmates that you know and trust. This will eliminate the problems you seem to have when hunting/looting.
Devs, keep up the great work. The game looks more and more promising as you go! Just one thing...ADD MORE HIGH-LEVEL CONTENT AND PLANETS (Hoth anyone???)!!!!!!
Sifer2
Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:23 pm
#102
Yep the Lottery sounds great. I think it will be a nice addition so long as there is also possibly an additional option or mechanic to ensure loot is fairly distributed. If its completely random then when one group member could bid on everything an end up getting all the loot. So just make it so that every bid you win reduces your chance of winning other bids. That way people would really focus on the stuff they needed an not be greedy.
thegreywolfe
Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:42 pm
#103
FignarKrynn wrote:
I've never found the looting to be a problem when i am grouped as i am always grouped with friends so need before greed is always the rule. What i would like to see is something similar to Ever Quest 2 where the mobs get locked to your group or individual when you attack it so that it stops the leet kill steelers and general low life of the server who camp POI spawns i.e Krayt dragons from making peoples experiences of the game a bad one.
That would be awesome FignarKrynn, would cut down on a lot of problems at places like Tusken where a low level will be fighting one tusken for a minute and before they can get enough damage in to lock in their loot, a Master TK walks by and breathes on it, then leaves the corpse without looting it.
atytula
Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:41 pm
#104
Sifer2 wrote:
Yep the Lottery sounds great. I think it will be a nice addition so long as there is also possibly an additional option or mechanic to ensure loot is fairly distributed. If its completely random then when one group member could bid on everything an end up getting all the loot. So just make it so that every bid you win reduces your chance of winning other bids. That way people would really focus on the stuff they needed an not be greedy.
clicky