Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-15: Combat Roles; Swordsman
Funny that most people mention bleeds as a defining ability for swordsman and then they go and nerf the hell out of them.
Make me wonder w t fthis thread is for.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Offensife Role - both hands used for sword to max dmg but at the cost of defense.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Highest dmgand weakes defense of all melee combat classes
What offensive abilities?
Highest Melee Damage Output, especially on single targets. Less Area dmg than a Pikemen, but definatly higher dmg output than tka/fencer. But due to the real high dmg output no specials like kd or dizzy.
What defensive abilities?
Weak. Both hands use for the offensive weapon. Weakest Melee and ranged defense of all Melee Classes.
What unique abilities?
Powerfull one hit attacks, Mind pool is fine.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The one how causes the most dmg for the risk of getting slained first.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The weak defense against ranged and melee makes protection against ranged necessary, eg by a Riflemen and need for Medic.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
The Swordsmen is the best for inflicting dmg on a target. The fencer does less dmg but a bit faster and higher defense. The TKA is the specialist for special moves and attacks, faster but less dmg. The Pikemenhas more defense , less dmg, and is specialiced on Area Attacks
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Very high dmg output - butat the cost of special attacks (no dizzy, kd etc.) and defense
GStruepp wrote:Highest Melee Damage Output, especially on single targets. Less Area dmg than a Pikemen, but definatly higher dmg output than tka/fencer. But due to the real high dmg output no specials like kd or dizzy.
How can something hitted on the head with a powerhammer cannot be KD...or stun...or even dizzy? I can understand for blind since with heavy 2 handed weapons it's more difficult to hit such a small specific location as eyes, but heavy effect should be ours. BTW, if you look at it right now, we hit harder than TKA (elite brawler reference)...but they outdamages (on dsp)us with KD (more damages on a KD target than on a standing one) and their speed.
This damage output thing should really be think carefully before all others.
Most swordmen agree than we should have the best DSP (between brawlers and even marskmans due to range and kite)and powerfull blows. For that we're ready to sacrifice almost all our defenses (and some others stuffs).
We should ALWAYS outdamage other professions (with same skill points requierement). Against a ranged profession, at range, we should be toast but defense-oriented melee profession (like fencer) should be able to run at their ennemy and just take a few shoot (if their ennemy is not moving)
Henzo-Kauri wrote:Funny that most people mention bleeds as a defining ability for swordsman and then they go and nerf the hell out of them.
Make me wonder w t fthis thread is for.
LOL. So True.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
I think of medieval Japanese samurai with a (can't think of the japanese name) two handed sword. Masters of swirling big moves, heavy hitting power but wide open to damage requiring tubs of armor. Two-handed swordsmen are shock troops, pure and simple.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
We hit very, very, very hard. We have very good range (shy of a pikeman) and special abilities that stun and knockdown our opponents. Would you be standing if a guy who could benchpress 400+ hit you with a power hammer??? Our weapons should have good armor piercing capabilities. I hate to say it but it should also be exceedingly tiring wielding a two handed weapon... so special costs will probably remain a bit high, especially health and action. We also have the ability to launch great sweeping arcs of destruction with our weapon hitting multiple enemies.
What offensive abilities?
As I said, high damage, good range,bad encumbrance, high armor piercing.
What defensive abilities?
Low defence, but (due to the nature of our profession) good toughness.
What unique abilities?
Initial shock capabilities. First hit has increased chance to do increased damage or improved special (stun, knockdown or posture down...)
Im not a big fan of the posture down/knockdown implementation... i would do the whole system differently (another post for another day). But I think that big men or women with big swords should have a very good ability to knock people down.. more so than anyone except tka (who should have judo/aikido/hapkido-like throws and takedowns). Again, fitting in with the 'shocktroop' concept, a swordsman should have a high chance of knockdown on the first hit only. After that he's lost some of his steam.
Charge special ability. Another implementation of the above could be a 'charge' special ability. Like beserk, you take double damage, cause double damage and have a high chance of knockdown or stun on the first hit. It could either seriously impact your green or just be useable very rarely... or once per battle.Let pikemen deal double damage (x4 total) against charges. The numbers are unimportant, you get the idea.
Definitely keep the area attack. Very appropriate.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Depending on your tactics, heavy swordsmen should either be first or second strike weapons. Either use them to smash your opponent in one fell rush or wait till pets/tanks draw aggro then hit them hard. Rather like cavalry without the mobility.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Like other melee professions, heavy swordsmen seem an odd fit in a sci fi world. But there is a lot of seemingly anachronistic elements to star wars that make it more 'human'. It is more mythic in nature than science based. I see the heavy swordsman as the proud, tall warrior who has decided to spend his life in pursuit of that next battle. They are like the barbarians of this world: fearless, strong, skilled and utterly courageous. They live for their art as a fencer might, but they even more live for warfare.
I see a fencer as a profession of thesocial elite. Very skilled in using their sword. But the heavy swordsman is very skilled in warfare and i think their specials should reflect this. A fencer would never miss but a swordsman does more damage. A fencer can disarm but a swordsman can knockdown. Swordsmen should have little defense and a lot of damage absorption. A fencer should have tremendous defence but no damage absorbtion.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I would go so far as to argue that heavy swordsmen should become increasingly dependant on other combatants because of the nature of their 'shock' value. Once that first hit is over, they are somewhat vulnerable and require other combatants to help finish off what little they left alive.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Heavy swordsmen are front line troops and thus I would argue should have an increased ability in PvP. The current PvP damage reduction has rendered our profession nearly pointless in PvP. That should change. We should be able to walk up to another player and hit them for more than half their health on the first shot.
way to go dev's .... making the master swordsman even more pointless in pvp. i have found out in the last few days that our MINDBLEED absolutely sux. Master swordsman already cant hold their own in PVP... so the mind bleed was the only good thing we could dish out in a large battle.
BTW... im a wookie trying to make it in yer GCW ... and now no warcry2 or wookieroar on atst's? i absolutely love getting jacked by an atst with 2 hits while not being able to wear armor and not bleeding it.
Mind bleed used to be devestating .. now its no better than **edit** on a boarhog.
THANK YOU FOR RUINING AN ALREADY DEAD PROFESSION.
TUFFTUFF
master swordsman/master fencer/master brawler/0/0/0/4 tka /2/2/1/0 medic
Swordsmen are and should continue to be the heavy hitters of the melee world. In order to emphasize this an AP3 weapon is needed, perhaps the Cleaver so that we have a good SWORD.
Our defenses should rely on absorbing damage through toughness mods instead of avoiding it with melee/ranged defense and counterattack. Since we are powerful warriors, we should also have high defenses against knockdowns and lowering posture changes.
In all we should be able to take a lot of damage while dealing more and staying on our feet until we win or die.
I agree with the post above me, its sum good ideas
I also do feel master swordsman are crap in pvp...but not so bad on npc's, but then again wheres the fun in always beating up npcs lol
Why is it, for master swordsman to get a KD move we need master brawler, even then its crap...they stay down for a few secs and to dizzy them u need to get lucky with two hand hit, where as other pro's get dizzy and KD sepertate or mixed into one move
We should get the same