Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-15: Combat Roles; Swordsman
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Heavy mind Damage.. by far the most damaging class in close combat... well besides jedi.. desent tank better then tk on taking dmg by alot and more then a fencer... but less then a pikemen.. i like counter attack my self even tough it dont work much if at all unless you get carbinner... we need a desient kd... and state effects attacks.. as of right now we dizzie but thats only a side effect... we got only bleeds really and the sweep attacks do the same thing as the area spin attacks ones that look like this > |o| on the icon.. when in combat i only do 3 or 4 moves bleed, mind attack 3, lundge 2, 2 handed attack 3, area 2
What basic combat elements should they possess?
close combat with a KD that works with minimal raged attack like lundge
What offensive abilities?
i like the ones we have we just need to make them more usefull we got 2 attack that take them down 1 level and sweeps never seems to work.. we need a KD with some range on it.. and need some state effect i feel left out tk/fencers both have state effects good deffence and attacks... kinda the odd man out... well along with pikemen
What defensive abilities?
we need more by far... counter attack dont work to well.. maybe a effect called blade shield effect 75% less dmg but cant attack at all but taunts AE so evething attacks you.. for a set aount of time... TK gets meditate and force of will.. somthing along them lines would be nice...
What unique abilities?
need baserker rage... get hit more but do much more dmg... fears/stuns oponent slowing them 10% tiping over them selfs...
or 10% normal run speed incress.. right now ranged can kite us all day long...
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Damage........ not have to be high all the time but aginst armorTargets we are by far thebest.. tanking...
How could/should they interact with other professions?
we should be like any other profession need docs and maybe ranged support... as it is right now we have to have buffs no mater what because ham cost are 2 high 2-4 attacks and you kill your self with a power hammer..
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Guy with a big sharp sword what would you do run....dodge get out of the way.. dont make him mad.. as it is right now TK owns a swordsman they attack much faster then us and dizzie attack and KD dont have much hope of lasting to log... not to mention they can self buff just look at our trees they got tons of stuff our trees are nearly empty..
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? ST-AT
I think we should be ST-AT ST-ST busters and hardend targets... as it is right now storm troopers can run us around all day long with out much effort.... but when a ST-AT runs its almost always going to be death... for us sence our slow attacks dont lend well to hiting moving targets... and to top it off tk's do a better job on them unless we got master brawler... and if they have that there is no contest...
i think in an overall swordsman are ok
but i'll point out things that don't work.
Two-handed sword and a Cleaver doing higher damage than a vibroaxe
Low accuracy is all ok.. normaly our weapons weight as hell cause they deal high damage, the problem is thatother faster Melee like fencer and TKA can output more damage than us (DPS)
Spin attack is nouse when master (Area attack far better)
We need to Stun/paralyze/immobilize creature/player with special skills
Swordsman (even if i love that) should be able to hit head.. this is the wrong class to do so.. Heavy weapons, high damage , no accuracy. So it's a please hit anywhere so it can die.. rather than please hit head
Parry/block would be betternamed for our counterattack.. i don't see my self with huge axe or sword counterattacking after avoiding an attack
AP3 hrmm don't know sound cheater but maybe
_Arkane_ wrote:Swordsman (even if i love that) should be able to hit head.. this is the wrong class to do so.. Heavy weapons, high damage , no accuracy. So it's a please hit anywhere so it can die.. rather than please hit head
I disagree - consider our main weapon, the power hammer, if I'm swinging that like a sledgehammer and raining blows down on my opponent from above, 9 times out of 10 that I connect, I'm going to hit his head aren't I ?
It also explains our lousy defences, because if the hammers above me, I can't really defend against blows to my body.
Elminster1 wrote:Here's an idea:Maybe at novice have a new skill added: 5% HAMcost reductionon armor wornand then granting an additional 5% per box of say finesse (or whatever)with 5% at master.So say my armor total is 500 H, 500 A, and 500 M at master it would only take 350 H, 350 A, and 350 Mjust an idea....
Aye thats a start, but what we really need is class specific armour. I've always hated the fact that a Novice Artisan is able wear the same armour as Master Heavy Swordsman.
The heavy swordsman (patterned after the medieval Man-at-arms, the Japanese Samurai, or the English or Celt Greatswordsmen) was a front-line damage dealer. One on one, they followed the idea that the best defense is a good offense, and counterattacks were a large part of that. I think watching the Last Samurai shows a good example. You don't see as much in the way of parrying as you do simply stepping aside and into your swing while your opponent is exposed.
Also, while a heavy swordsman should be good in a duel due to their overpowering offense, they are far better in situations with multiple enemies, where they allow for their swift strikes from one hit to another to allow them to prevail against multiple adversaries, so long as those adversaries are not overly defensive.
I think the current theme of the swordsman is right on target. It's the balance that's wrong. Counterattack needs to have its frequency increased to the point that a master can expectmany counterattacks per fight, and counterattacks should always hit in the upper 50% of the damage range, since they are, by nature, performed against an opponent who is far more open to attack than normal. Also, there should be no limit to the number of attackers that can be counterattacked at one time. Thus, the more enemies we face, the higher our damage, as we will have a chance to counter attack each and every time we recieve an attack from within melee range (even a ranged attack from within melee range) regardless of the source. Our specials, with all their area effect attacks, are good. But we need other types of attacks too. Maybe one that works as an area effect intimidate or something.
As for defense, our defense should revolve not around our ability to avoid a hit, but our ability to take a hit. Damage mitigation, armor, and meleetoughness should be the only thing that fills the gaps left by counterattack. A "heavy" swordsman does not have the luxury of highly mobile weapons with which to parry, nor is it easy to dodge when swinging a piece of steel that weighs 10-20 pounds or more. While our offense gets higher and higher the more enemies we take on, during multiple enemy encounters, we quickly become stim sponges for the docs and combat medics. The trick of a good group will be to find a way to keep a swordsmanon his feetwhile he does his offensive magic.
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What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Frontline offensive tank, which excels in taking on multiple opponents.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Their current special moves are fine for the most part. Perhaps less focus on the single target attacks though.
1. They need an increase in the frequency that counterattack works, and swordsman counterattack damage should be considered critical damage (either always hitting in the upper 50% of the damage range, or having a basic 1.5x multiplier to the damage). Swordsman counterattack skill needs to be different from carbine counterattack skill, both in execution and stackability, to prevent it from being overpowered. A master swordsman should counter attack 30-40% of the time.
2. High toughness/low defense. Swordsmen should be hit often, but should have enough toughness to take the hit. Swordsmen should have the highest toughness and lowest melee defense of any combat profession.
What offensive abilities?
1. The variety of area effect special moves make swordsmen the best melee character to have when fighting multiple creatures. However, their low defense means that they will be hit a lot by these creatures, meaning that for more than two or three creatures at a time, the swordsman may need one or two doctors or combat medics devoted to nothing but keeping him alive.
2. Counterattack is both an offensive and defensive ability. It gives additional damage by providing a chance to return an attack each time an enemy hits the swordsman. If successful, the damage to the swordsman is ignored, and the enemy takes a decent amount of damage.
What defensive abilities?
Counterattack and very high toughness are the trademarks of the Swordsman profession. Swordsmen get hit a lot, but the high toughness ensures that when they get hit, it's not for much. Counterattack not only reduces a swordsman's chance to get hit, but increases the swordsman's damage abilities as well. Because swordsmen have very little melee defense, counterattack is basically the only damage avoidance skill they get.
What unique abilities?
Swordsman counterattack has no limit on the number of enemies it applies to. The swordsman has the same chance to counterattack each enemy attacking him, regardless of how many times he's counterattacked already. In other words, if he gets hit 8 times in a single combat round, and makes successful rolls each time, he will counterattack each of those 8 enemies during that one combat round. This dramatically increases the swordsman's offensive output against multiple adversaries when compared to other professions.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Swordsmen are offensive damage dealers. They dish out tons of damage, which makes them great at keeping aggro off of doctors and combat medics. However, because of their lack of melee defense, they have to be very careful about pulling too much aggro, because while this is favorable in terms of increasing their offensive damage output, they can't tank as well as some other melee classes due to a comparative lack of damage avoidance.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Being a frontline damage dealer, they dish out damage and steal aggro when neccessary to preserve the group. Because a large part of the swordsman's abilities revolve around counterattacks, multiple swordsmen in a group don't mesh well, since swordsmen can only counterattack if they're being attacked, and only one character can get attacked by any one creature at a time. Swordsmen generally prefer to have someone else (such as a pikeman) doing the majority of the tanking, however, as this allows them to concentrate on dealing damage with their specials and AE specials.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They depend on other classes to apply nost state changes... swordsmen are mostly about damage and have little in the way of state effects other than blind, stun, and dizzy. They also prefer to let someone else do the tanking, and almost requiretheir owndoctor or combat medic to be effective in large battles.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Their very high frontloaded damage, area effects, and toughness make them excellent flankers. Their job in GCW combat is to move in and quickly destroy the lower defense support characters, leaving those with higher defenses stranded to be picked apart by ranged fighters and other melees.
What I want to know is why you even have to ask these questions. You guys are the game designers and developers. But 7 months into this and you haven't divined the answers to such basic game balance issues? Wasn't this supposed to be done 7 months before release, not 7 months after?
This game is an interesting crafting model in search of a goal.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
High damage dealer, moderate tank. Specialising in mind attacks.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Mind hits, mind bleeds, high armor piercing.
What offensive abilities?
Mind hits, mind bleeds, some area effects. We should be the biggest damage dealer.
What defensive abilities?
We aren't the best tank, this is balanced with the high damage output. Counterattack.
What unique abilities?
Mind hits, mind bleeds. High armor piercing.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Damage output. Moderate tank.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Medium Speed Heavy Damage Dealers who don't care about what the costs to get the job done
What basic combat elements should they possess? (more of a summary)
Do lots of damage to the mind pools, bleeds to the mind pool, and all other kinds of "mind affecting" (dizzy, stun, etc) effects. They should have block as they aren't as quick as fencers or tka, but our weapons are big and we should be able to block quite effectively. Counter attack makes more sense with someone with a polearm being that they get hit and hit with the free end of their polearm... Block makes more sense with someone with a big weapon to block with. We should have a high chance to be hit, but sinse 2-handed weapons are big, heavy, etc we should be much tougher. So i vote for damage reduction of sorts. We shouldn't be able to nimbly dodge out of the way due to high melee defense, so make us be able to get hit more but make it so like damage mitigation 1 makes us take like 85% damage, mitigation 2 make us take 70%, and damage mitigation 3 make us take 55%... then we should also have more toughness than any other brawler class (in my mind atleast) so instead of like the like 20 toughness we getby master... let us have like 40 or 60 toughness total... but this wil lbe balanced still since we will be taking almost every hit... while fencer is dodgeing out of the way and the pikeman is doing whatever the pikeman is doing. A higher intimidate or version of it would be nice.
What offensive abilities?
Status effects, Mind Damage, Lots of Armor piercing, More Accuracy... a Full Blade (8-9 ft long sword)would be nice 
(have it have present power hammer HAMs... but do like... 800-1000 dmg at the present power hammer speed and do AR3 Kinetic). Socketable weapons OR the ability for weapon smiths to add elemental or extra kinds of damage to weapons... would be neat to have an Electric 2-Hand Curved. Something else that would be neat...make strength worth something in combat...like make it so that for every 50 points of strength, you get 2% more damage... so a human with lowest str (400 i think) with a melee weapon will get a 16% melee damage bonus... and if you really wanted to you could make constitution reflect how much Damage is shrugged off (basically how much more damage is shrugged off or the effectiveness of damage mitigation)
What defensive abilities?
Nill to No defense... But have lots of Natural Damage Reduction and Block
What unique abilities?
Ungodly amounts of Dealable Damage, Status affects. Damage Reduction
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Should be able to keep the attention of a mob...so that way the Damage Reduction is worth something, while the medic heal and the swordsman and everyone else does there job.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They will need ranged assistance and medics (who won't?)... since they have the Natural Damage Reduction...make us build up Battle Fatigue faster than other profs. and take wounds at a slightly higher rate...that way we have to depend on the support chars more like medics and entertainers.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
A close range attacker just like a TKA. Swordsman should be able to take away massive amounts of damage but only attack from close range.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Other than the obvious a swordsman should be able to effectively block as well as attack.
What offensive abilities?
Same as TKA but with a sword. Perhaps even more dmg per hit than TKA but slower attack speed. If a swordsman ever comes close enough to attack a ranged atttacker like a rifleman, then the rifleman should be dead in about 2 hits at most.
What defensive abilities?
Same as TKA.
What unique abilities?
I have to drop being a swordsman cause I found that being a rifleman was better but a swordsman should be able to tank just like a TKA and hit blow for blow like a TKA.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Should be a tank like TKA.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
I'd like to think that all jedis are swordsman but not all swordsman are jedis.