Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-15: Combat Roles; Swordsman
I've already posted specific responses to the dev's questions, so i thought i would sum up some of the very interesting suggestions I've liked from other posters:
"Charge" ability- burst run on a timer; its speed and duration can increase as skills go up
"Beserker" or "Offensive Meditation" abilities- the antithesis of the Meditation line; same general concept except recieve bonuses perhaps to strength, quickness, focus to reduce HAM costs on specials, and scaling abilities such as immunity to stun, increased damage, increased accuracy, increased speed all the way up to Offensive Meditation 4 and then Master. Not stackable with normal TKA meditation.(I love this idea!)
"Immunity to Block or Parry"- an ability of our heavy weapons to break blocks and parries due to their, well, largeness.
"Armor Bonus"- as storming shock troops and heavy damage dealers, perhaps a small scaled enc % reduction as we become more and more able and comfortable to support the wieght of armor (would work wonderfully with an opposite type enc % increase for TKA's and Fencers while giving them more dodging/parry abilities)
"Fix Counterattack"- rather than counterattack forceinga miss, perhaps we absorb the blow and actually counterattack with a damage modifier of x2 or something as we strike them as they are vunlerable. Gives us extra damage output, but we will be absorbing more damage- nice tradeoff i think.
"Overhead Bash"- attack that is basically a head hit3, but with dizzy, stun modifiers attached, but that leaves us very vulnerable for a number of seconds by temporarily reducing melee/ranged defense or by reducing toughness. Simulates taking a large powerhammer/cleaver above your head and dropping it onto someone/thing else's head, and the ensuing damage that will result.
"More Weapons!"- One of the more interesting things about this profession should be its weapons- and a large variety should be available. Ideas are limitless, and should not be restricted to merely swords. Stun maces, heat blades (perhaps require a power pack on back to use), vibro-fillintheblank, cortosis-fillintheblank, etc. Interesting combinations between damage type, dam range, ap, accuracy, and speed could all be employed. I would gladly sacrifice our bleeds and variety of specials for more weapons that each fill some sort of role, even at master.
"Change Our Name to _____"- We aren't "swordsman" per se. We are axe wielders and powerhammer wielders in addition to swordsman. Heavy Infantry? Heavy Shock Troops?Man at Arms? Heavy Knights (hey! there are Jedi Knights after all!)?
Thanks to those who thought of these wonderful ideas.
i think we should be a lot more powerfull . after all we are wacking people in the head with a GIANT hammer ours is bigger then thors and he does a lot of damage hehe plus now ou rmind bleed is worthless please please please bring it back
another thing if your not going to give us better defence make us a powerhouse so our high damage makes up for our lack of defence then we could afford to have a fencer hit us 50 times but only if we strike them once and come damn close to taking them down\
just my opinion
Zarkonan wrote:
I"Change Our Name to _____"- We aren't "swordsman" per se. We are axe wielders and powerhammer wielders in addition to swordsman. Heavy Infantry? Heavy Shock Troops?Man at Arms? Heavy Knights (hey! there are Jedi Knights after all!)?
Thanks to those who thought of these wonderful ideas.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
-The Swordsman should be the lead, the charging brawler that gets knee deep in the frey, with the mentality to cut anyone/thing down with finality.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
-A Versatile array of strong blows that are unique to striking different Ham pools. A Swordmaster is not a wild brawler, he is a technician, a strategical fighter that knows where to strike to end a duel with speed. I don't want to be a dumb head hitting brawler, please substitute some of the posture changes for moves to disembowel or maim our opponents.
What offensive abilities?
-Take out the pretty moves that animates so long, we need precise cuts to the specific areas a'la a true master. No big need for status effects, a sword shouldnt dizzy or stun, it should bleed you "severely". I would like a slice that gives a serious DOT but with a long lag time - similar to the pause after the Smuggler's Panic Shot.
What defensive abilities?
-Please change our mod from "Counterattack" to "Parry", I think that word better describes what occurs when our opponents miss us. I would like a Power Boost added to our tree that adds to 2h sword damage for a small period of time. Let it drain mind since it's the one ham that is never in jeopardy from our specials.
What unique abilities?
-Already stated above but I would like to see every brawler not just TKM get the meditate command. Our weapon of choice as a brawler shouldnt keep us alien to the spiritual side of brawling, not having anything like that makes Teras Kasi appear as monks while the other 3 classes as dumb brawlers with weapons.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
-What we already have been, the PvE damage dealer.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
-With brawler or another brawler class I would like to see our mods continue to stack like melee defense etc. I think a bonus should be given to Swordsman/Fencer as a pure sword expert but I think relative professions should rightly stack.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
-You should be able to put your sword weilding combatant after a single deadly foe to slow and destroy him/her/it.I don't see a swordsman as an area swinging barbarian, I see a technical powerhouse that can pinpoint a target and end it's life.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
-The same as any combat level profession, a Swordsman should be able to be a good and effective soldier. I would really like to see blunted weapons like the hammer be narrowed down to realistic DOTs and modifiers. Bleeding an AtSt back in the day was a bit stupid. Actually bleeding someone with a hammer is just silly - that must be one helluva glancing blow.
Thanks for the chance.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
man to man combat. the two-handed curved sword looks so much like a katana, i can't help but imagine us as star wars age samurai. not only that, but we weild big, heavy hammers that do blast damage(explosive tips maybe?) no way should this let us take on a whole crowd, but it should make us lethal in a duel.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
counterattack is good and adds to the one-on-one feel. we should get a blind hit since we're hitting the head all the time. the only affect we can regularly deal is dizzy, and even that is only a chance thing
What offensive abilities?
bleeds, head attacks, powerful single-person hits, and better armor peirce. no reason a cleaver or an explosive hammer shouldn't cut through heavy armor or animal hide. also, if u read about what a katana can do, no reason that shouldn't have AP3 either, but that'd require it to be moved up a skill box, so im not so sure about that one
What defensive abilities?
should be able to take the hits and keep on coming. since we train to hit the head, it should be harder to hit us in the head since we know how its done. this would make for some very interesting one-on-ones between swordsman.
What unique abilities?
since the head bleeds so much naturally, make our mind bleed a weapon to be feared. it would give us an even stronger reason to be one-on-one fighters if our main ability could only be done to one person at a time. and who isn't gonna bleed if they get a hammer to the head?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
interior bunker defense, or a similar situation. when the ranged combatants on the surface are unable to keep the fight up, they should retreat inside and let the fighting go into the hands of the melee combatants who would be useless on a open battlefield. fighting indoors would be a lot more interesting if u had a heavy hitter waiting around the corner for you. we should be like close-quarters commandos.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
no thougths for that 
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
should be death to engage us 1 on 1 if we can get you in range, should be vulnerable to ranged attacks though.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
primarily as defenders and infiltrators. we fight best indoors, let us do our main work there. let the carbineers pistoleers rifleman handle the troops, commandos handle the turrets/walkers, and let the melee classes clean up inside. in that regard, its back to the one-on-one thing. swordsman should need to fan out, pick a target and duel that person seperately, while it should be a serious disadvantage if we went up against a group of close-together fencers or pikeman since their area hits would easily outdamage our single hits(all 3 hitting all 3 vs each one hitting only one enemy)
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Mind-damage dishing PVE killers with tank abilities ganked from other professions.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Extremely powerful mind dmg (we got it) dealers, but we're lacking our bleeds, and that is a necessary skill we need back. NO swordsman bleeds and runs. That is for sissy pistoleers w/ feign death.
What offensive abilities?
The moves we have in my view are fine, although we have 3 area attacks which are basically the same. Our bleeds need to be fixed though and allow them to be stackable. Just take the clock, and roll it back.
What defensive abilities?
Currently we are REALLY lacking in defenses. Yes we should get some. If players want to uberize their characters though they'll have to dabble in other melee profs.
What unique abilities?
Very high mind dmg. We got it with headhit3. It's gud but we're lacking the lovely mind bleeds of old that we used to have.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
They can act as the tank on a hard mob, they can help pull off mobs from people with area attacks, and they help cut down the mind of whatever they're attacking.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Again, they're the tanks (minus defenses) who dish out damage while other people heal them and such.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
See above two questions.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Well they're warriors. Plain and simple, they help out where they can.
I've been thinking about this allot lately and just had to get this off my mind. I see a number of people saying to reduce the number of AOE attacks a swordsman has, that pikeman should have more. This is entirely incorrect. For starters, pikeman should have better range then us, but allot of there AOE stuff should be cone and not true AOE. A pike man does allot of jabs, and swing back and fourth slashes, but not really AOE in the sense the melee does them now. If you've ever used or trained with a large sword or anything like that, the first thing you learn is to not fight the momentum of the weapon. You waste enough energy to start the thing going, you don't want to waste the same or really, more amount of energy to try and stop its movement. So one of the things I was always taught was "go with the flow". If you get it going, and miss the target, or even if you hit the target, and don't feel that you could stop it, then don't. Pivot around on your bracing foot, and let the thing keep going, re-position the pivot foot, whip the blade around for another attack, this makes it so that missing a target can actually be benificial. They think you missed and are going to have to stop and re-set the weapon for another attack, or take a weeker slower back swing to get back into position, catching them off guard when you spin all the way around and catch em with an attack that built up even MORE momentum.
Given that I think that several of our attacks should be AOE, or at least some of them should be "double tap" weapons, where it on special we actually hit twice. If it wasn't to hard to program itd be nice to have this special just hit once, unless you miss, in wich case if you have a chance to hit again for even more dmg.
I fully agree we should have a knockdown rather then a so many posture downs, as being hit with a weapon of this size, even if blocked, should take someone off there feet. (Another tactic I learn was the non-reliance on weapon, TKA shoudn't be the only ones with just unarmed attacks. I know fencer includes several kicks) One nice tactic for us on people with shield was to swing high and wide so when they block out with a shield you can lay a good solid front kick to there abdomen. Another was a feignt (most people don't associate feignting with a weapon that big) where you purposefully swing to short missing the aponent, and when they move in you let the weapon keep going and deliver and back round house to there chest or shield (There forward movement combine with the sudden kick is usually enough to take most people off there feet, even if they do catch it with the shield).
Though one of the big mainstays of master brawler is the Lunge2s, id like to see more lunges in the game as part of the elite melee professions. Maybe include a lunge3 with the hit 3 at the master level.
I have been reading this forums.
I woudl like to see more state change attacks. I dont think that a TKA should KD/Dizzy us and then sit there and beat us into the ground while we try to stand up. I see the swordsman as a tank. To be able to resist KD/DIzzy while hammering away at our enemy. We are one of the best PVE profs. If you take Fencer, Pikeman, heavy swordsman and out them in a group together they can run anything in the game.
I woudl likt to see us as an asset to pvp in the game. We are either kited all over the place or KD'ed and dizzied by a one hit wonder called a TKA with the i win button. All i see myself as it the equalizer for the geno caves right now.
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
Totally defenseless at range, but up close, easily the deadliest combat profession.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Get away from mind damage. That's the realm of snipers (riflemen). Instead, swordsmen should inflict fear...no, terror. Things like Stun or Knockdown should be very important, along with massive, massive damage.
What offensive abilities?
High damage, high bleeds. Knockdown and stun. Relatively slow attack speed though....we swing heavily, not rapidly.
What defensive abilities?
Not much. Swordsmen focus on hitting hard, they don't care if they're hurt.
What unique abilities?
Maybe a Berserk3 or similar.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Primarily offensive. Swordsmen should be the guys that generals send in first, then let the rest of the army come in to help clear away the bodies.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Heavily, heavily reliant on medics and combat medics, as well as ranged fighters, for support.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
See above.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
To keep with a Star Wars "sci-fantasy" feel, swordsmen should be relatively rare shock troops utilized primarily by Rebel forces. Think feudal Japan - after the Meiji Revolution, samurai were forbidden to carry swords by the State. The rebel samurai continued to do so. The Imperial state hunted them. Parallels, anyone?
i was master heavy swordsman for a while...
Dropped it coz it sux at PvP .. Mind hit are the only saving grace, and work well on both PvP and PvE providing you can catch your target... otherwise ur just a running bullet catcher.
Hmm.. knockdowns. why has the heavy swordsman got no knockdowns.. lets look at the title "heavy" swordsman. to me that means someone brandishing a huge "heavy" weapon that should be capable of knocking u on your ass. a pikeman can do it with a sweep.. we have 2 levels of sweeps and not one of them works very well. At the moment the only way to knock someone down is to use ur area 3 attack to make them dizzy (which only has a chance to dizzy a target) then sweep them into a lower posture.. bingo they fall over, but only for a second coz they get back up again. Yet fighting a TKA he has the ability to dizzy, blind, stun, and knock me down before i've even swung my scythe... and when u have so many states imposed on you it's almost impossible to get back up... so HAR HAR! the "heavy" swordsman has just been spanked in front of lots of people and made to look a fool .. this has happened many times before and worst of all the Teras Kasi dude was a mere student.. not even a master! .. harumph! think i'll take my sword home and shelve it tbh.
imo they dont deal enuff damage, are too slow, take too much damage, and have no knockdown attacks which really really sux.
I dropped heavy swordsman for master rifleman, and now im very good at both PvP AND PvE .. Balance you ask? hmm i think not.
Give the swordsman more range on his attacks.. his swords are longer than the fencers! .. give them a knockdown attack that works.. take the sweep 2 and make it knock people down. try fighting a rifleman with a sword.. and then tell me theres balance ! HA!
if these things change i will for sure take up my sword again.. it WAS fun untill i started using it for PvP. things kinda went downhill thereafter
Jagz Kimo
Master heavy swordsman
Master medic
Master rifleman
Master marksman
15) Strong combination attacks, I look at my own japanese and chinese martial arts for this one, you can do so much more with a sword then SWG is letting us right now. I think the TKA combo 1 and 2 are attacks that really belong in every melee class.
16) Get away from mind damage. That's the realm of snipers (riflemen). Instead, swordsmen should inflict fear...no, terror. Things like Stun or Knockdown should be very important, along with massive, massive damage.
23) Swordsman need a stun, If my power hammer hits your head, doesnt it make sense that you would bestunned?