Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic

Avallach
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:30 am
#79


What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?


It strikes me that the name is self evident. They're meant to be in the field combat healers. Anything that's combat treatable, they should be doing, including healing mind, and perhaps even rezzing. I realize this makes doctors more of a stay at home class and less useful in groups, but that seems to have been the intent in the original design as well.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Healing, of course, and they'll probably carry some basic weapons use, but from other skill trees.


What offensive abilities?


I'm actually less concerned here. The poison and disease system is nice and all, but when I think of a CM I picture the WW II medic running to stabilize the critically wounded soldier, not someone throwing poisons and disease bombs about.


What defensive abilities?


A good CM should have some form of ranged dodge defenses. What good is all that knowledge if it's located in a head that's no longer attached to your body?


What unique abilities?


Area heals, perhaps even mind heals. I'd love to see rezzing moved to CM from doc as well. The poison and disease, as I said before, is secondary in my mind at best.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Healing, really. They should keep members up longer in combat. A good medic *can* be the deciding factor in combat. (It's tough in SWG not to have at least novice medic to use stims....)


How could/should they interact with other professions?


We should heal them. :-) Of course, wound healing isn't something you bother with in the field, and should be different from the CM roles. I like the idea I saw earlier of purchasing components from BE's to upgrade meds, and the current system of buying comps from docs to make nice meds is also very good.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


The CM should heal other combatants, and the others should keep the CM from experiencing that previously mentioned head dislocation. If a CM gets in melee, that should be a hopeless battle, IMO. Keeping people/mobs from reaching your medic should be a tactical consideration in combat.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Well, healing, basically. On a major battlefield (or on a Battlefield for that matter), a medic should be an essential member of any team. It's not that you can't fight without one, it's just that you won't last as long. Perhaps CM specific mission types involving a "hot" area of combat and an important NPC (rebel spy, Imperial officer, etc) in need of emergency medical care? Just a thought.




------------------------
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PsionicHawk
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:51 am
#80

I've been thinking about the combat medic alot and some ideas have come to mind. The following is one idea of how the combat medic could change.


Master Combat Medic:


Healing Range +25
Combat Med Effectivness +25
Ranged Healing Speed +25
Combat Medicine Use +25
Terrain Negotation +10
Thrown Weapon Speed +10
Thrown Weapon Accuracy +10
Certification: Proton Gernade
Defense against Knockdown +30
Dodge +30
Ranged Defence +5
Melee Defense +5


4th Tier


Master Ranged Distance:
Healing Range +25
Combat Med Effectiveness +15
Throwing Accuracy +10
Ranged Defence +5
Ranged Migitation 1
Certification: Thermal Detonater
150,000 Combat Exp


Master Ranged Speed:
+25 Ranged Healing Speed
+10 Thrown Weapon Speed
+5 Melee Defense
Melee Migitation 1
150,000 Combat Exp


Master Combat Medic Support:
Combat Medicine use +25
Terrain negotation +10
90,000 Medical Exp


Master Combat Med Crafting:
Assembly +20
Expiramentation +20
50,000 Crafting Exp


3rd Tier


Expert Ranged Distance:
Healing Range +15
Combat Medical Effectiveness +15
Thrown Weapon Accuracy +10
Ranged Defense +5
Certification: Proton Gernade
100,000 Combat Exp


Expert Ranged Speed:
Ranged Healing Speed +15
Thrown Weapon speed +10
Melee Defense +5
100,000 Combat Exp

Expert Combat Medic Support:
Combat Med Use +15
Terrain neogiation +10
65,000 Medical Exp

Expert Combat Medic Crafting:
Assembly +20
Expiramentation +20
37,500 Crafting Exp


2nd Tier


Advanced Ranged Distance:
Healing Distance +15
Combat Medical Effectivness +15
Thrown Weapon Accuracy +10
Ranged Defense +5
Certification: Glop Gernade
70,000 Combat Exp


Advanced Ranged Speed:
Ranged Healing Speed +15
Thrown Weapon Speed +10
Melee Defense +5
70,000 Combat Exp


Advanced Combat Medic Support:
Combat Medicine Use +15
Terrain Negotation +10
40,000 Medical Exp


Advanced Combat Medic Crafting:
Expiramentation +20
Assembly +20
25,000 Crafting Exp


First Tier

Intermediate Ranged Distance:
Healing Range +15
Combat Medical Effectiveness +15
Thrown Weapon Accuracy +10
Ranged Defense +5
Certification: Cyroban Gernade
Combat Exp 30,000


Intermediate Range Speed:
Range Healing Speed +15
Thrown Weapon Speed +10
Melee Defense +5
30,000 Combat Exp


Intermediate Combat Medic Support:
Combat Medicine Use +15
Terrain Negotiation +10
15,000 Medical Exp


Intermediate Combat Medic Crafting:
Assembly +20
Expiramentation +20
12,500 Crafting Exp

Novice Combat Medic


Healing Range +5
Ranged Healing Speed +5
Assembly +20
Expiramentation +20
Combat Medicine Use +5
Combat Medical Effectiveness +5
Thrown Weapon Speed +10
Thrown Weapon Accuracy +10
Melee Defense +5
Ranged Defense +5
15,000 Medical Exp

I honestly feel that CMs need a way to incap otehr then the bugged poison/disease. I have given it a great deal of thought and I have come to the conclusion that gernades would be the perfect fit without creating a CM only cert. If we (and commandos) were given specials that we could use with them it would be even better, as it stands I have never actually seen someone seriously use gernades and as such I don't feel that giving us gernades would be stepping on the toes of commandos. I have put alot of work into the skill tree listed above and I hope that it is something that will be considered by many. Things like the expirience required to reach each level may need to be tweaked and I am open to suggestions. Some defences are needed but nothing along the lines of what riflemen/tkas recieve and this is reflected in the above tree. For simplicity sake I did not list the schematics, apply poison, apply disease.




a Snodewejowoji a
FCM CorrespondentE
Alt: a TitanHawk a
Naritus

nolan007
Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:25 am
#81

"...When you have two groups of 20 players fighting each other, and then one group has a CM to use an Area of Effect poison, the fight is over. It's unbalancing..."


100% CORRECT



Combat Medic need a balance adjustment. There is no logical reason thatone Combat "Medic" should be the best PvP profession.


First, I hear that the poisons (and maybe disease) do not have a 75% reduction in PvP. I believe that is true because I routinely see 600 tick Mind Poisons on the Bria Server... 600 tick mind poison is a show stopper (ie. not fun).


Second, one player shouldn't be able to use the most deadly attack in the game and stop an entire group of players every single time. I can understand once in awhile with tactics and the right situation -- but, not EVERY SINGLE TIME a combat medic shows up during any battle...the battle is over within 60 seconds. The combat medic unleases a minddisease or mind poison and the stop the PvP cold in its tracks.


Third, there is no way for doctors to compete with Area Disease or Area Poisons... Doctors are not equipped to area cure disease or area cure poisons (ie. not pratical for a doctor to heal one player at one time... only for another area attack to nullify their healing efforts). Either give Doctors an area cure for disease and area poison, introduced innoculations,nerf the effectivess of the area disease and area poison, or something.Maybe doctors can innoculate players so that they are immune to disease and poisons for a period of time...?


Fourth, CM disease and poison attacks seem to hit 100% of the time... no miss, no counter, no dodge, it seems to always land.







~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

Travixius
Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:30 am
#82

I think this thread is easily seperated between the CM's that want to keep their power, and everyone else that wishes the game to be balanced. A combat medic is basically a coreman. An armed medic. Period. There is no legitimate reason why a CM and take out anchorhead by simply throwing in a posion/disease then running to a locked house and watch everyone die.


If you are going to make use disease/poison in PVP, then maybe you should make it so the CM has to buff their teamates so it doesn't effect them. I mean think about it logically, here is a large group of soldiers fighting half yours half the enemies. You throw a tube of Anthrax in there and unless your troops have been injected with the antidote (before hand) then they are going to die violently as well. Make it so the CM's have to craft and buff their teammates or faction members with the antitoxin. If the CM's are so set against their disease/poisons being nerfed maybe this is another path to take?


But if you are truely honest about the profession, you would have to admit that as it stands now it is COMPLETELY out of balance.



....An Idea is infectious, so everyone is going to have one....
CamaroMullet
Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:42 am
#83

Poison and disease don't suffer the 75% damage reduction in pvp. Fire and bleeds both do, why not poison or disease?


Make it so medics with 2-0-0-0 can cure disease and poison like they can bleeds.




***LFD*** ASHMAN - CAMARO - IROC ***LFD***
Vendor in Strongbadia, Naboo -4395 -5265
Stocked 9-27-2004. Stims,Buffs(including resists),Cure/State Packs and More!!!
Niamb
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:16 pm
#84

What defines the Combat Medic role in combat?


The role of the combat medic in combat is WMD, mind healing (limited) and ranged healing. In PvP keep a group going while inflicting massive damage on other players. In PvE their only role is ranged healing.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


With 169 points spent to master this profession, this should be a powerful profession with effective offensive abilities both in PvP and PvE. Buffs have marginalized the importance of their ranged healing and the mind wound costs of mind healing makes this ability of limited value.


What offensive abilities?


Poison and Disease attacks are effective in PvP, but ineffective in PvE. For a point intensive profession like CM, effectiveness should not be limited to the only the PvP arena. This profession should be made equally effective in both PvP and PvE.


What defensive abilities?


As masters of creating and dispensing WMD, CMs should also be effective in providing protection against their effects, buffing resistances to poison and disease. They should also be highly resistant to their effects themselves.


What unique abilities?


CMs are the masters of ranged and area healing and the use of chemical and biological weapons. They should also be masters of dealing with the effects of WMD used against them or others in their group.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


With the value of healing marginalized by the use of powerful buffs, it would be nice to see CMs given the ability to enhance resistances to poisons or diseases to compensate for the devaluing of their ranged and area heals. While poisons and diseases are effective in PvP, the CM no longer has a meaningful role in group hunts.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


They should be the final segment to a perfectly buffed character. The dancer and musicician buff the mind, the doctor buffs action and health stats and the CM buffs resists to states of being (poisoned, diseased, dizzy, stunned, etc.). This would also help with their financialquandry as they would now have something to sell to compensate for the high costsassociated withmaking their meds.


This class is already heavily dependent on doctors for high quality subcomponents, scouts/rangers for insectmeat and surveyors for the very specific resources needed for advanced CM meds. Perhaps they and doctors should be given some limited surveying ability as they and BEs are the only crafting profession without some surveying built into their template. They are already dependent on scouts/rangers for meats required for meds.


What interaction/dependencies should exist with other combatants?


While they are an integral part of PvP groupings, their value as part of a PvE grouping is marginalized by the increased use and availablility of buffs. Additionally, area heals are provided at great expense to the CM, with no means of being compensated. It would be nice to have some means of compensating doctors, medics and CMs a automated means of receiving a larger share of missions payouts based on total damage healed on other combatants and their pets.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


As the masters of weapons of mass destruction in a profession requiring a disproportionate number of skill points, combat medics should be an important and integral part of any assault or defensive team.


Comments:


While the CM seems to be a sufficiently powerful profession relative to the skill points used in PvP, this is not true for PvE. Their effectiveness in PvE needs to be enhanced.


They are required to use meds which are expensive to make or obtain resources for, yet are given no way to obtain funds save for the generosity of others, which is often in short supply. They need a way to be compensated for heals and perhaps buffs to states of being that they could sell. Already dependent on scouts/rangers for insect meat, they should be given limited surveying skills to allow them to place harvesters, though with limited sampling abilities, as they are a crafting profession.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Niamb: Master Doctor and Combat Medic on Radiant
Ariex: Resource Gatherer Extraordinaire on Radiant
pyclone
Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:46 pm
#85

I though more about it an condenced my previous post into three solutions:


1) Give us RANGEDmind heals that don't give us wounds, make them really hard to craft or somthing and retain the no useing on our selfs rule. Wounds are not the biggest problem with the current mind heals its that you have to be next to the guy imho, and the wounds suck dont' get me wrong its easer to let a doc revive the fallen then save them from incap with mindheal.


2) Make a better way to stim our team, like stim nearest friendly or AOE stim on self effects all friendlys near by


3) Make it so only players not in combat can db, it is crazy that a guy can be doing unarmedhit3 and db my buddy at the same time, there is typicaly no time to stim your inced buddies, thus no healing role.



Zocli a ilcoZ
Killer Doctor t Jedi Crafter
StrikerNI
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:02 pm
#86






MichaelF77 wrote:

No counter? Ever heared about docs ?






Ever seen a doc sucessfully heal his mind poison, mind disease, and the 19 other fighters in the group before they all ticked to 1 hp? And then do it all over again when they're restacked?


Nope, neither have I.



=-=-=-=
-Aefi Striker-
I've got a blaster at my side and a smile 12 parsecs wide...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Happymob
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:24 pm
#87






StrikerNI wrote:





MichaelF77 wrote:

No counter? Ever heared about docs ?






Ever seen a doc sucessfully heal his mind poison, mind disease, and the 19 other fighters in the group before they all ticked to 1 hp? And then do it all over again when they're restacked?


Nope, neither have I.





OK, but what rubs CMs the wrong way is that the nerf-CM crowd is attacking it from the wrong angle. There *is* a counter currently. Now, it may not be an effective enough counter. But instead of asking for a more effective counter, people ask to make the attack itself ineffective.


Ask for more effective counters, and we'll all be less hostile. In fact, with the food revamp, you will already be getting one more potential counter (food that increases poison and disease resistances). Will these be effective? I don't know. But it'sa step in the right direction, rather than an attempt to simply kill off a profession that largely works and I believe makes the GCW more interesting by introducing a different dynamic into combat.




Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076


Xytroncore
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:36 pm
#88






Travixius wrote:

I think this thread is easily seperated between the CM's that want to keep their power, and everyone else that wishes the game to be balanced. A combat medic is basically a coreman. An armed medic. Period. There is no legitimate reason why a CM and take out anchorhead by simply throwing in a posion/disease then running to a locked house and watch everyone die.





You can't run into houses with TEF....want to say some more stupid stuff that isn't true?




_________________________________________________________
Manimal : Gunslinger
Xytroncore
Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:39 pm
#89






StrikerNI wrote:





MichaelF77 wrote:

No counter? Ever heared about docs ?






Ever seen a doc sucessfully heal his mind poison, mind disease, and the 19 other fighters in the group before they all ticked to 1 hp? And then do it all over again when they're restacked?


Nope, neither have I.






So let me get this straight, you guys are all just standing there for about 8 seconds (time it takes a combaty medic to toss 2 packs, then standing there for another 8 seconds while combat medic restacks lol....people who are stupid and just stand there instead of killing the combat medic shouldn't cry nerf, I'm sorry, but you had 16 seconds to find and kill the combat medic.



_________________________________________________________
Manimal : Gunslinger
Oracul
Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:27 pm
#90

Lets us craft some sort of item that we can sell to weaponsmiths, armosmiths, and or BE's . Such as poison tissue to put in weapons(similar to a Krayt tissue). Poison/Disease resist armor segments for Armorsmiths. Poison/Disease "dna" or "tissue" for BE's to place into pets to make them poisonous. Give us something we can sell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am tired of being a broke CM all the time.


This way you dont have to nerf CM's anymore.........people would be able to buy armor that would give them some resists to poisons/diseases. Or they could buy weapons that would give them some sort of poisoning ability without being a CM. I think a bunch of players could benefit from this!!!!!!!!!!! And it would'nt be a "NERF" so to speak.


Please dont nerf us!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poisons/disease are the only things left that make being a CM enjoyable!!!!!!!


RhenGordon
Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:30 pm
#91






Travixius wrote:

I think this thread is easily seperated between the CM's that want to keep their power, and everyone else that wishes the game to be balanced. A combat medic is basically a coreman. An armed medic. Period. There is no legitimate reason why a CM and take out anchorhead by simply throwing in a posion/disease then running to a locked house and watch everyone die.


If you are going to make use disease/poison in PVP, then maybe you should make it so the CM has to buff their teamates so it doesn't effect them. I mean think about it logically, here is a large group of soldiers fighting half yours half the enemies. You throw a tube of Anthrax in there and unless your troops have been injected with the antidote (before hand) then they are going to die violently as well. Make it so the CM's have to craft and buff their teammates or faction members with the antitoxin. If the CM's are so set against their disease/poisons being nerfed maybe this is another path to take?


But if you are truely honest about the profession, you would have to admit that as it stands now it is COMPLETELY out of balance.





This whole nonsense about the combat medic being simply a medic in combat is ridiculous. You should really stop and think about what you are saying.


The argument is that because the name is Combat Medic, people have this vision of the battle field medic running wround stabliziing the wounded until they can reach the doctor. This simply does not play out. The combat medic has to spend MORE points than a Doctor to be a master at their profession. As a result they should be something.. well different than simply a healer on the field. You say ranged stims is your difference, but that is not nearly enough when you consider what a doctor can do.


So for all of you who want Combat Medics to be healers only, well let us take a look.



  • Doctors get to buff all your stats to 2000+

  • Doctors cure poison and disease

  • Doctors heal wounds at a much advanced rate

  • Doctors have the strongest heals in the game

What would combat medics have if you took away poison and disease?



  • Ranged Heals for much less than a doctor can do

  • AoE heals that are even less effective

  • Mind heals, that cause more damage than they fix

Does that sound like an elite class to you? One that is worth the 169 points to take? Might as well just roll all of the Combat Medic skills into the medic and doctor tree and be done with it.


The point is that a medic on the battle field of today, does not have the training or education that a doctor has. To say that a Combat Medic is essentially the same profession would then be to do a disservice to everyone who spent the points to become a CM in the first place.


You all have to get past the name and look at the abilities that the profession has. You cannot make the profession fit the name since that is not balancing either, that is nerfing. The truth is one of our titles is Chemical Warfare Expert. If SOE had called us Chemical Warfare Masters, then you people that want to say we are battle medics would not have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately the climate of today is such they could not use that name for the profession. It in unfortunate because that is clearly what we are.





>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
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