Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
I'm no Combat Medic, but I personally believe you guys should have a weapon. I mean you are Combat medics after all, not some nurse.
Personally, I think a weapon like the BlasTech Q2 hold-out blaster (similar to Garindan's weapon in A New Hope ) that has a great accuracy rating, would be great for the Combat Medic profession.
Don't short yourselves guys! You deserve a weapon too! Hell, maybe even more than one! Though, we wouldn't want too many guns in this game, would we? 
StrikerNI wrote:
jtrek wrote:
Two words for you here, "Spread out".
Last I heard,the AoE effect doesn't measure the distance from the initial target to the next target, it judges its distance from the recently poisoned target to anyone within "X" meters from him.
For instance, you throw a stim at target A.target Bwithin, let's pretend 30, meters from him is poisoned. Then target C who is 30m from target B is poisoned. Then anyone within 30m from target C is also poisoned.
no that's not how it works at all, our poisons are not contagious....though it would be cool if they were...
When we toss a poison at target A, everything that's within say 30m of target A gets poisoned, if you're outside the damage radius then you're fine.
Look heres the facts:
AOE mind poison is over powered
ALL AOE disease are over powered
Single target mind is perfect
ALL CM offensive attacks need to be boosted in pve
Right now the "Healing" role of CM is moot because your team gets inc, DB in all of four sec after say a rifle gets trained on them or any melee class or really anything
The range on poisons shoudl be capped at 64m, FYI devs if you cap "experimental range" at 48m that just means a master can only throw one 96m /sigh
CM are tied for the second most skill points invested. For this they must be balanced healers and fighters, not one or the other.
Stims need to auto throw or somthing to make healing in groups possible, read don't have to hunt for a target while under attack, or allow AOE stims used on yourself to heal everyone on your team nearby.
And we should probably be able to revive.
WAIT I'M NOT DONE YET:
PREPARE FOR THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE NEEDED.........
No deathblowing while in combat, let the healers have a chance, this means medic, docs, CM all of us. And let us defend are fallen friends, or drag them to saftey with out them being dbed by someone we are about to kill.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
Well the role of a combat medic in combat in reality is defined by the developers. It is your concept after all. We as players try to make the most out of a class that is presented to us.
As a master combat medic my role now is to weaken up the enemy so the tanks and ranged fighters can take them out. While I am doing this I lend support to the doctors that might be overwhelmed from running from person to person with their more poweful heals.
So in Combat, I tend to target a group with an area of effect poison, then I pick one of the tougher mobs, or the more powerful player in PvP and nail that target with a more powerful single target poison. If at that point I seem members of my group that are taking large amounts of damage, I will toss an AoE heal to them to help the doctor out. In this role I am mainly an offensive group breaker and a defensive backup healer.
So in my opinion that is the CM's role. Mainly a crowd control type character and a backup healer. If I had to put it in terms of another online game, I would say we fill the role of a druid in Everquest.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
In my opinion, if the combat medic has to have a ranged weapon support skill, then they should have some basic combat skills. I think this goes along the lines of each person's template though. If we want a defensive or offensive modifiers then we buy those with the points we have left from the 169 we spend.
What offensive abilities?
I am firm believer that our poisons, both area of effect and direct targets poisons are perfect for our class. The damage is not that bad no matter what so many people here would like to claim. The problem is not the fact that we have poisons or diseases, the problem is that we attack an unhealable pool of points. One that is also not easily buffed. This is the real problem here. Put in a real mind heal capability and the poison attacks are not any more powerful than a commando's fire attack.
I have yet to hear anyone complain about a health or action poison. I have had people complain to me bout my mind poisons though. The reason is once you get poisoned to the mind, you are finished until you can get a doctor to cure it. Even if I health poison them, in reality I doubt anyone really notices since those HAM pools are healed all the time anyway.
Leave in the poison but do something about the over powering mind attacks in the game.
What defensive abilities?
I cannot think of any defensive abilities that make sense to me.If we want defensive abilities then we should buy them with whatever points we have left over in my opinion.
What unique abilities?
Tossing of Area of Effect heals, ranged healingand area of effect poisons and diseases should be our unique ability. I think your original concept of the class is sound. Adding a mind healing component to all heals would go along way to helping balance out the class if that is your real focus here. Again, I think the combat medic is a combat class and should have some offensive ability. Using chemicals in this area makes total sense.
Since many people see the word medic in our name they want to lump us into an area where they think we are like the "Cleric" class in EQ. This should not be the case. We already have a cleric class in this game and that is the doctor, they have the resses, the buffs, and the cures. Combat medics are an elite class and need to be more than just a ranged healer. Consider us more like the EQ Druid or perhaps the Necromancer without the pet and you would have a combat medic. This does not fit into the real world view of things, but we are not talking real world here.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The ability to break up an incoming group of players or mobs is what our advantage should be. There is no other profession in SWG that can fill that role. Commandos are close, but fall a little short of the mark due to their limited range.
We should also have the ability to weaken an opponent. When a group is confronted with the almighty powerful MOB or player, our poisons should be used to help bring that target down quicker. That is our advantage and our asset. In Everquest, no group in it's right mind will take on any powerful MOB without having an Enchanter in the group.Shamans arealmost as useful with their abilities to poison and slow the mob down.
Like the shaman or the druid, our healing skills are secondary, yes a shaman or a druid can fill the role of a backup healer effectively and they are often considered a support class, but their DOTs and slows make all the difference in a group.
This is where thecombat medic should be. We can be countered of course withwell placed heals and cures so we are not all powerful as many wouldmake it sound.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We have no buffs to make money off of, we have no skills to help out in anyway. To make money I create poisons and diseases and sell them to other combat medics. As a master doctor I am also capable of creating some powerful stims to sell to doctors and medics. Our class is combat in nature and as such we should make our way collecting money from our skills as a mercenary.
. I think Doctor's poison and disease cures should take Combat Medic components to create those packs. For our ranged and area of effect heals to be effective, we have to have doctor made components. Switching this over to require the doctor to have to buy components off combat medics creates a dependency area where one profession relies on the other one.
If you were to take thisa step further and give doctor's a ranged, or an Area of Effect cure, this would create an even better market for the Combat Medic.
Give the combat medics a innoculation pack that they can use to give a plus to the resistance of a player. I would be fine with giving this ability to the doctor instead it really does not matter, as long as the innoculation pack requires combat medic components to create.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
In combat, our arch nemesis should be the doctor. With some upgrades to the doctor profession, a doctor could become as useful in combat as a combat medic.
With no offensive or defensive modifications built into the class, we are sitting ducks on the battlefield. Using proper tactics, the combat medic should be the first to be targetted and neutralized once his presence is known. Unless we buy some combat skills to defend ourself, we are reliant totally on the tanks and ranged people to keep us alive.
It is a mutual concept though. With out abilities to weaken a target and heal our group, we keep our side alive while trying to take your side out. The side that practices better tactics should be the winner in the encounter.
The variable here that effectively cancels out tactics is mind damage, there is simply no defense against it. The fact that we use mind to heal our group and toss these poisons makes us even more susceptable to any mind attacks. This is already a huge balancing issue. Keeping in mind that a well placed mind poison on a combat medic is more devastating to him, than that same poison is to a combat class. The idea here is that while the poison is taking down our mind, so is the performance of our duties.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
I think with everything I posted above, the answer is in there somewhere.
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
I'd say "Chemical sniper":
- Stealth applying of various states, including DoTs
- Chemical weapon of mass destruction (aka poisons)
- Unique abilities in PvE for fighting heavy armored beasts
What basic combat elements should they possess?
/applyPoison, /applyDisease, /applyState ??
What offensive abilities?
Nothing in addition to those above. Very deadly profession vs. living creatures (useless against machines/buildings though) but very narrow, one-way fighting.
What defensive abilities?
Not a single. Price for being unique offensive power.
What unique abilities?
The only class that can attack from beyond 64m range. Since CM can attack only living (i.e. movable) beings its ok.
The only class with multiple various area effecting abilities
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Idea about turning off friendly fire seems great. Area poisons are extremly powerful, so they need to be limited somehow, making them affecteveryone in the area including friends is ok.
Many classes apply states (dizzy/blind/etc), make Combat Medics ability (statechange pack) to apply states and to heal them (Squad Leaders have this ability, but SL is extinct class)
Add /cover abilities from rifleman tree (andbtw fix it finaly!). This fits very well in idea of stealth chemical fighter.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
- interaction with doctors is ok now.
- interaction with Chef should be interesting, in making resist-improving food- I'd strongly suggest interaction with BE in creating bio-enhancers. And overall, concider adding "enhancer" slot in combat meds and switch all that **edit** useless Rancor Bile, Donkuwah Poisons etc. to enhancers.
- Great idea can be modifying weapons to add limited DoT and state-change capabilities.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- Combat Medics need defence badly. Very deadly but very vulnerable class (high skill points intensive also, cannot take manydefences from other classes)
- Besides that, CM is stand-alone class. It can fight solo PvP and PvE.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
CMs are main weapon against enemy soldiers. CMs play absolutely no role in fighting droids/turrets/vehicles. CM can be great support to any combat squad.
Suggested fixes (easy part):
- Reduce Terrain Negotiation for master CMto 15-20. Really, we dont need to have TN at master scout level, but this is great ability overall and fits into class idea.
- Rebalance schematics a bit concerning level of Med Use. Currently all good area stuff is on master level, i think every C pack should be there too (assuming it is not experimented for Ease of Use).
- Rebalance schematics conserning power.
Raise the power of A packs significantly. They are utterly useless, with extremly poor range.
Reduce potency - since ARC schematic fix in previous publish, our stuff is UNRESISTABLE. I dont think its right. Before ARC fix with usual RC potency was around 70% and that was a dilemma - experiment power or put some points into potency.
To additionaly quickfix comabt issues and improve PvE, make following:
- increase poisons strength twice, easiest way is in multiplier damage = CM effectiveness X 2, make that "CM eff X 4".
- 75% reduction of PvP damage (total PvPreduction compared to current is 50%, total PvE increase is also 50%).
Suggested fixes (other):
- Revamp /healMind. It is awful now. For more suggestions consult our Correspondent, my favorite is nondamaging (only mind cost, no wounds) DoT-like heal (when applied, it heals mind everytick, 8 seconds, by relatively small amount like 100).
- add /takeCover ability from Rifleman tree (but dont forget to fix it before adding)
- add enhancers slots to CM medicines and switch all useless stuff like Rancor Bile and Donkuwah poisons to be enhancers.
Couple of issues:
We need to do ALOT more damage in PvE (make non-AOE poisons 2x or 3x in PvE).
People need to have some type of cure for poisons (Master Chef food - or a new Master Smuggler Spice). Don't kill our only combat tool. (In pure DpS it is the worst combat tool in the game, tactically, the AOE Mind Poison is the best tactical advantage a team can have).
AOE poisons stop the zerg attack. Without a non-doctor type of heal, these poisons have no practical counter.
It would be much cooler if:
You get poisoned (oh, oh, it's mind poison). You take your first hit as you seek out the CM. You use you moun as you BurstRun with flamer in hand at the CM. You take your second hit mind hit. Mind is doing OK, moun holding out, you reach the CM, you flame, he dodges (**edit** fencer), you take you next tic - mind now so good now, time for some antidote. Poison is gone, moun regenerating mind nicely. Flame too hits, **edit** composit, he is still standing, but he has the DOT. The CM gulps something down, his health bar shoots up, flames going out... Poisoned again (damnit). Another flame lands. Mind low, time for the last antidote. Combat medic gulps something down...
InquisitorPayne wrote:
hannerf wrote:
I really can't believe the way people carry on about CM. The obvious class that needs some major "balancing" is the TK class...but god forbid I say that because everyone and their brother is a TK. I personally love how Tk's fist's and feet are the most powerful weapons in the game. Oh yea this is a CM thread...in my humble opinion if CM takes anymore hits...the class will dry up and disappear..it's really not that flashy of a class to start with...we suck in PvE...and PvP we can hold our own...so what if our poison does good damage...so does many other classes..I have been mind shot many times by Rifleman,had my mind worked by smugglers,and let's not forget the BH eyeshot (spam it as they all do). So don't cry about posion damage because this class will disappear if they "balance" it. Sad thing is it will just continue on down the line...so keep your ticket number's handy TK's they will get pulled very soon....
You might wanna express your thoughts about TKAs in the TKA thread! (wondered about the similarity in names?)
Dogg
I would say the same to you Dogg. You are always complaining about CMs. This is a CM thread, so why are you here and not in the fencer/tka/brawler/stacked defense thread?
Krase wrote:
I would say the same to you Dogg. You are always complaining about CMs. This is a CM thread, so why are you here and not in the fencer/tka/brawler/stacked defense thread?
Well, first off, this is an open discussio, about CMs. I posted about CMs. And if you have a look at my post, you will see, that it is neither a rant, nor a callf or nerf, but a through list of the needs and must have of the CM profession based on an overall view of PvP balance in group scalre combat.
So, before you start ranting about me, make sure your accusations are correct.
The person i told to expresshis thoughts in the TKA part of the question threads, was because his complaint and express of emotion was related to the TKA profession, thus has no place in a thread about CMs.
Next time, either stay constructive, or **edit**!
Dogg