Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Feedback 6-23-04: Core Combat Change
Jade92
Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:42 pm
#79
I think it's a good idea but as it's implemented, it's terrible. I've been playing on TC2 with my jedi, 0404 saber, master defense, master healer.
I've been fighting nightsisters all day. Loot rate of crystals is pretty good, not too frequent, not overly rare.
But, I can't hit crap. I get groups of NS a lot, usually 5. Get them all around me and use /saber2hFrenzy
It is normal for me to miss 2 or 3 out of the 5 in each swing.
I had two initiates at one point, counted 10 swings, I hit 0/2 once, 1/2 7 times, and 2/2 twice. That's a 11/20 hit ratio at 0404 saber. They seem to hit me more than before, it seems master defense doesn't do much anymore, I got hit about 2/3 of the time.
I had two initiates at one point, counted 10 swings, I hit 0/2 once, 1/2 7 times, and 2/2 twice. That's a 11/20 hit ratio at 0404 saber. They seem to hit me more than before, it seems master defense doesn't do much anymore, I got hit about 2/3 of the time.
*shrug* this goes live and SOE is gunna have major problems. I'm not saying the idea is bad, having a 0% chance to hit or 100% chance to hit is not good for the game, but if you want to avoid it, leave the old system in place justcap the odds at 5% and 95%.
Itcomes down to this - missing is frustrating and no fun. This is a game, please avoid frustrating things and no fun things. Missing has to happen, but you implement a patch where you make people miss more, and even if it's a more balanced game, they will hate you, because you've added frustration to the game. When it comes down to it, SOE will lose money because of this change.
Ewach
Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:55 pm
#80
Ok - I did a test on TC2-Bria.
Novice Pistoleer using Scoutblaster
I attacked a Carrion Spat Lair
Results:
Total Shots 158
Hits 134 (85%)
Misses 24 (15%)
Note - The Carrion Spats were healing the nest while I was shooting it, that's why there is such a large number of shots. I figured this would give me a pretty good sample size to consider.
I was standing right next to the nest and the "hit modifier" (right term?) next to the lair name was +1.
nikolai
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:18 pm
#81
Do these accuracy changes affect Combat Medic's thrown poisons and diseases?
All that requires is a yes or a no answer. There is no way you can ignore this, so just answer it straight forward: Yes, or no.
TechBoss
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:11 pm
#82
Great, more time sinks. As if beating on mobs wasn't boring enough, now I have spend more time doing it because I can't hit the mob 5m infront of me with a flame thrower, you know a big huge CONE of fire.
I better not get hammered by super battle droids, enhanced kwis and other high end mobs due to the fact that I can't hit them while they seem to never miss me. Should this change be implemented, mob HAM needs to be lowered by the same precentage, otherwise this is a time sink being added to the game to increase mob engagement time.
Snarils
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:40 pm
#83
SOE Is going to screw this game right into an early Grave.
/Golf Clap SOE!!!
WOOT...
Does the term "Flying Blind" ring a bell ??
DarthBrundleFLY
Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:56 pm
#84
DarthGhaleon wrote:
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
SOme people don't do it cause they don't like to grind. But you can do many professions while afk... doctor, medic, entertainer, dancer, musician... even combat profs you can afk grind. There are macros for most professions.
Not everyone AFK'd every profession they grinded out. Quit lumping everyone together into the same group. I myself had to do all 32 professions. Took me almost 1 year to do them all and the only 3 I AFK'd were the Entertainer professions (Ent, Dancer, Musician). So thats 29 profession I did without the use of a AFK macro, where I actually had to sit there actively manipulating my toon. Don't tell me I didn't earn or work for my Jedi because I did.
Did I enjoy grinding? No.
I had a goal and I achieved it.It reallypains me to see people like you takingother people'saccomplishments and telling them its garbage because they put no actual effort into getting their slot. Not everyone buys their Jedi on Ebay or AFK's to glory. Their are many of us who put plenty of hard work into getting Jedi.
Message Edited by DarthGhaleon on 06-24-2004 12:44 PM
Hmmmmm....your toon is a wookie, you know up until the recent developments in Star Wars Galaxies i had never heard of a wookie being a jedi
Message Edited by DarthBrundleFLY on 06-25-2004 04:48 PM
Master Bounty Hunter 
Lieutenant Imperial Army
Snarils
Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:19 pm
#85
Putting Jedi in the game and then thinking only a select few would work toward it and get it is about as thick as you can get.
They should have put the game in a timeline that would allow jedi to be in large numbers or they should have put no jedi in the game. Eventually...everyone who wants a Jedi will have one.
I as the above poster said only macro'd the Entertainer professions. Cause they suck.
Any crafting or combat profession I was not afk.
WarHawk666
Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:11 pm
#86
WarlordRhawn wrote:
With that said, no one is asking for "God Mode." Being able to take down 5-6 other Masters does not equate to being god. If it detracts from other players, there are other options for them. One such option is to do the jedi trials and unlock your slot for yourself.
There have been many things that is not good for the overall health of the game. Holocrons for instance destabilized guilds many guilds. The Combat Medic is killing any desire to enter the GCW, has been broke from day one, and has nothing to do with Star Wars. The fact remains people worked hard to get their jedi, they were promised a power character and they should have their hard worked honored provided of course they are willing to do the work to have their character masterthe discipilines of the force.
So, basicly what you're saying is that everyone should be Jedi? I havent worked hard over the past three months to Master Bounty Hunter? (Havent mastered it yet though). Not everyone plays 24 hours a day, and not everyone can master an elite proffesion in three days.
A Master Bounty Hunter is supposed to be the polar opposite toa Jedi, and should be able to stand up against them (Maybe not "kill" them per say). Right now, a Jedi canplow through5 MBH, and quite possibly more than that. Is it right? No. Jedi are certainly not invincible, and if you actualy understood the whole theme to the most recent SW film you would understand that. Hell, the Jedi got there ass handed to them by droids.
Emeloy
Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:52 pm
#87
Hmm WarlordRhawn one question... if you want a hard cap on Jedi, you actually want perma death back again too?
I mean it's easy to want hard caps if you know that you're in it, but if you have any good idea how to manage it, I'd be very interested in hearing it. Think you would agree that excluding most of the players forever to see this part of the game (at least till someone cancels his Jedi account), just because you started some month earlier, would be highly unfair.
I mean it's easy to want hard caps if you know that you're in it, but if you have any good idea how to manage it, I'd be very interested in hearing it. Think you would agree that excluding most of the players forever to see this part of the game (at least till someone cancels his Jedi account), just because you started some month earlier, would be highly unfair.
Whatisahandle
Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:58 pm
#88
At novice LS killing 3K ham thingies on Endor, I was often missing 5-10 times in a row.. 2-3 hits then miss,miss,miss,miss,miss,miss,miss,miss. Don't really like it. The attack speed for specials is so slow anyway =/
rockanddroll
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:02 am
#89
TH, you have access to looking over the developer's shoulders. Is it true that there is a greater than 1% for a TKM to miss a Dwarf Nuna? Where I agree that everyone deserves to have a chance to hit and miss, if you are a master you should be able to expect to hit a lair(see: punch at the wall) or a Dwarf Nuna (see: kicking Garfield)
People are claiming a 25% miss rate? Now If I am a Novice Whatever and I have a uber weapon, does that mean I have a 25% hit rate?
I know you won't give us hard numbers, but a little more clarification on the system would be appreceated. Such as:
1) I never want to get hit by anything so I have dodge bonus tapes, max defences and max dodge, not only am I capped at 125 but I will always have a about the same flat percentage to get hit as Joe Schmo Fencer if I fight a something that has a really low attack bonus?
2) If I am fighting two or three opponents and one has a low attack and my defences are being lowersd so he has a chance to hit me, will my defences be high for the other two?
3) I have a higher attack than the defence of my opponent, from your description my attack is being lowered so I have a chance to miss, also, my defence is being lowered or raised so my opponent allways has a chance to miss, if the same thing is happening to my opponent, how do we know that everyone isn't being pulled into a statistical average where there are large gaps high and low in the probabilities of missing? AS in did you keep the range but shifted it? or did you reduce the range that could be generated?
4)I have an example to illustrate my last idea. I see the bonus and a randomizing value (for arguement say 1-100) of my attack vs. the bonus and the randomizing value of my opponent's defense. Say a defence stacker vs. a novice brawler. The defence stacker's range in my example would be: 126-225 for defence vs. 6-105 for attack.
This would mean the Novice brawler cannot hit the defence stacker. So you guys bring down the defence of the defence stacker so where there is a 5 point overlap so the novice brawler has a chace to hit the defence stacker. Now the range is: 100-125 for defence vs. 6-105 for attack. That isn't a 5% chance for the novice brawler to hit, because the defence roll has to be considered too, so the probability of the defence roll low enough and the attack roll high enough would make the 5 point overlap make it 0.25% llikely to miss, to avoid this low of a percentage, did you overcompensate with the overlap? In my example to get a 5% overlap (1 on a 20 sided die) the overlap would have to be about 23 points. But to shift the overlap to 23 points where the bonuses aren't as high, would mean possible negative numbers and all kinds of lunacy.
Am I going off the deep end here? I hope not, can you please elaborate on the system used to keep the chance of misisng reasonable? A TKM shouldn't miss often, neither should a Jedi (HELLO! the Force?
) Everyone should have a chance to miss and hit, but with up to potentially 60 attacks happening in a minute by just one character, even a 1 one in 20 chance means you are still missing 3 times.
People are claiming a 25% miss rate? Now If I am a Novice Whatever and I have a uber weapon, does that mean I have a 25% hit rate?
I know you won't give us hard numbers, but a little more clarification on the system would be appreceated. Such as:
1) I never want to get hit by anything so I have dodge bonus tapes, max defences and max dodge, not only am I capped at 125 but I will always have a about the same flat percentage to get hit as Joe Schmo Fencer if I fight a something that has a really low attack bonus?
2) If I am fighting two or three opponents and one has a low attack and my defences are being lowersd so he has a chance to hit me, will my defences be high for the other two?
3) I have a higher attack than the defence of my opponent, from your description my attack is being lowered so I have a chance to miss, also, my defence is being lowered or raised so my opponent allways has a chance to miss, if the same thing is happening to my opponent, how do we know that everyone isn't being pulled into a statistical average where there are large gaps high and low in the probabilities of missing? AS in did you keep the range but shifted it? or did you reduce the range that could be generated?
4)I have an example to illustrate my last idea. I see the bonus and a randomizing value (for arguement say 1-100) of my attack vs. the bonus and the randomizing value of my opponent's defense. Say a defence stacker vs. a novice brawler. The defence stacker's range in my example would be: 126-225 for defence vs. 6-105 for attack.
This would mean the Novice brawler cannot hit the defence stacker. So you guys bring down the defence of the defence stacker so where there is a 5 point overlap so the novice brawler has a chace to hit the defence stacker. Now the range is: 100-125 for defence vs. 6-105 for attack. That isn't a 5% chance for the novice brawler to hit, because the defence roll has to be considered too, so the probability of the defence roll low enough and the attack roll high enough would make the 5 point overlap make it 0.25% llikely to miss, to avoid this low of a percentage, did you overcompensate with the overlap? In my example to get a 5% overlap (1 on a 20 sided die) the overlap would have to be about 23 points. But to shift the overlap to 23 points where the bonuses aren't as high, would mean possible negative numbers and all kinds of lunacy.
Am I going off the deep end here? I hope not, can you please elaborate on the system used to keep the chance of misisng reasonable? A TKM shouldn't miss often, neither should a Jedi (HELLO! the Force?
) Everyone should have a chance to miss and hit, but with up to potentially 60 attacks happening in a minute by just one character, even a 1 one in 20 chance means you are still missing 3 times.
DarthGhaleon
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:16 am
#90
I got 1 million bucks that says a trained monkey CAN NOT be trained togrind professions in SWG. Such a statement is ridiculous because like it or not people did work for their Jedi slot. So by your definition anyone who sits in front of a computer as their career doesn't have a 'real' job because obviously trained monkeys could do it for them. This isn't Planet of the Apes. We haven't been overrun by damn dirty apes just yet.
I'll take my money in US funds please.
Message Edited by DarthGhaleon on 06-24-2004 12:20 PM
WarlordRhawn
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:21 am
#91
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Grinding is not earning. A trained monkey can grind a profession. The simple fact that anyone was willing to spend x amount of time grinding - sometimes afk - does not mean he has earned the right to be much more powerful than other characters.
WarlordRhawn wrote:
1. Everyone who is a jedi now had to earn their jedi, whereas all you had to do was level your character.
2. After EARNING their unlock, they have to level their character. Leveling their jedi isn't as easy as leveling to Master Bounty Hunter. It takes alot more experience and it involved alot more risk. Because of those points they deserve to be MUCH more powerful then any one class especially when they master being a jedi.
Really what exactly have you done? If anyone can to it then why haven't they? Mind you I am not a hard core player either. So what is your excuse for the "trained monkey" accomplishing more than you? The simple fact of the matter is grinding is the manner in which the devs picked for us to unlock. Those players put in the work, and that is undeniable. Thus they did indeed earn their jedi. Now as you will see if you actually read my post I said a Jedi knight did indeed earn the right to be more powerful thaneven 5-6 othercharacters. That put in more work than those 5-6 other characters do. They risk alot more just by logging on. I did not say a Padawan deserved to be more powerful than even one. So don't pick and choose my posts. I didn't say all jedi should be more powerful I qualified it with the following:
"I might agree with you that lesser jedi "in training" don't deserve to be as powerful as 4 or 5 masters, but certainly Jedi Knights do. That sir is also consistant with the Star Wars Universe. One final thing, I do agree that there needs to be something to insure that this game doesn't turn into Jedi Academy. I think that the devs should now hardcap the jedi on every server and in order for you to get a "jedi" character the number of characters on the server needs to be less than the cap."
Natanial Storm
Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 06-24-2004 12:33 PM