Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 7-8: Camp Restrictions Removed
Woot, a new update on the test center:
Should not be a delay if calling a pet in a merchent tent
Should not be a delay to calling a pet in a camp or city after combat.
Things are getting better.
Naquiel wrote:
Castigula lets look at the commando with a flame thrower for a min. Yes someone would be sneeky and use a macro to surprise his enemy. Plus it might be unfair that a CH cant call a pet to defend it master if said commando desides to attack. But most of the time CH will have a pet out when pvping. Not having a pet out when going to pvp battle ground is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Their are ways to get around not being cought off guard without your pet:
1. Make sure you have your pet out.***Auto store/server boundries defeat this over and over again.
2. Make sure you have your pet out.**see #1
3. Make sure you have your pet out.***see #1
I am a BH/CH. I am not a master of both, but im good with what i have. When ever I go out in the field, i always have a pet out. If it auto stores, i pop a camp and recall my pet. But the main thing is i always have my pet.
Now about the little problem your having with the commando with the flamethrower sounds like you just dont like having your pets out for some reason and your leaving your self open to attacks. Have you really seen any CH without a pet out, out in the field?***YES actually its more common not to see pets out in the field due to all the nerfs and bugs,
***Plus it sounds like you want to surprise the enemy with a nice big pet when you want to. Well since pets cant be poped out at any time, just make sure you keep your pet out.***no, I am actually part of the 80% that do not pvp, and I am sick of the game being balanced for the minority.
And next time you see the commando, stay away from him/her till you have the advantage of attacking them first with your pet. ***this would be ok if the master comando would keep their master commando tag on, and not novice scout or master artisan holding a lower end weapon. If you are so concerned about surprises why dont you atgue for a timer on the macro surprise?
***If you die without your pet being out then it will teach you to keep a pet out.
Now i know that your going to say that it takes time to find a safe spot to place a camp to call a pet or 2. It doesnt take that long to find a safe spot. If your running on foot you can see what is in front of you alot easier when the creatures pop. If your on a vehical, just circle an area for a bit. If creatures pop on you, just move away from the area.
Ether way you look at it. unless the devs do a major change befor going to live, we will have to put up with the timer.
So say to yourself, is it better to complain about the problem, or find different ways to get around the problem.
***but the point is, the point that you keep missing is that there is NO reason for a timer, none what so ever. if you think its good in order to prevent "surprises" then you should make it across the board so it affects all the combat classes equally and not unfairly target one class.
Of course, there is always the possibility that the only reason the new 30 second timer was created was to prevent easy escape by popping out your speeder and riding off.
It may be that this 30 second timer didn't have anything to do with CHs and it was just a side effect of a cool feature they were adding for vehicles for all the non-scouts.
If that is the case, could we pretty please have a discussion about whether a 30 second calling timer is still warranted for pets, while leaving it intact for vehicles?
Full disclosure: I'm a master CH who has never pvp'd. I have dealt with the camp calling requirement for pets for a long time now, but have glimpsed a bright shining future where it doesn't exist (and neither does the 30 second requirement for pets).
Castigula, if your having so much problems of auto storing, then there is more problems where you hunt that the devs probably dont know. I go all over the place and the only annoying place that auto stores my pet is when im near my home in a player city. Now if you would report the problems of auto storing and where it happens(make sure its repeatable) and the devs will work on fixing the problem.
But its still up to the devs on the timer. Their game, their rules.
wolfsheim wrote:Thanks for making this change. I'm really not sure why people are bitching about it.... since it just makes it easier to bring out a vehicle if it autostores. But I do think the timer should be shortened if possible. If not.... its still better than what we had before...so thanks.
The solution should be different: Vehicles should not autostore. I hate it driving through the wilderness as an artisan, searching for minerals, and suddenly, while I survey, the bike autostores. I am wasting 15 skill points just for being able to get a tent so I can overcome this BUG. Ok, it's getting better with the publish 7, but I can't see any fair reason, why I will have to wait another 30 seconds just because of this bug.
And no, I don't know any scout who will join me when surveying, just so he can place a camp when I need it.
Get rid of that autostore bug and less people will complain about this 30 secs.
GarVa wrote:
I think the point their trying to make really is... before you could not do it at all... now you can.. but you have to wait a little bit or use a camp. Leaves some of the usefulness of camps as well as improving the ability to call vehicles/pets/droids without one (which did not exist before)
I am a ranger. This is not a reasonable use for a camp. I did *not* work my way up to making high-tech field bases so that I can make basic camp kits and use them for less than 10 seconds per camp.
This is not addressing the fact that camps are useless. If you wanted to address that issue you'd do *something* on the Ranger's wishlist. Having our camps not disband in the middle of combat thus allowing scouts/rangers to participate in combat and actually have some purpose, having them *actually* repel aggression like they're supposed to, making the healing mod not redundant or even detrimental in the presence of a decent medical droid. These are good ways to assure usefulness for camps.
Pet calling? I didn't become a ranger so people I could impress people with my massive pet-camps.
Daikatsu wrote:
Matsubaa wrote:
The 30 second calling limit is another arbitrary limitation which addresses *no* known problems.
It's not meant to address known problems, because there are no known problems with it. It is meant to give those who have Survival skills a bonus to having the skills that players without them don't.
If we do what you want, then everyone should be able to fire a gun as accurately as everyone else, everyone should be able to craft as well as everyone else, and we should have dance dance dance the night away as good as everyone else. At that point, slap some care bears on the front of the box cause you got a toddler's game.
A bonus? What bonus is that? We can slap down a basic camp kit and if we're not already or recently in combat we can call or store our pets without an arbitrary delay?
I'm not promoting any kind of stupid equality as you suggested. I'm a ranger and a creature handler. I didn't take up the survival line so I could call pets in the wild. I didn't even consider that possibility when I planned my template. I took up the survival line to provide myself and my companions with a safe haven in the wilds. I did it for the healing bonuses and agro reduction which don't work right. For the most part it wouldn't even matter that you can call pets in a camp except for the bugs in both the *good* uses for camps and in autostoring pets.
I did it for any number of other reasons and now I'm having this so-called "perk" shoved down my throat because the Devs can't fix the long standing problems with either Ranger or Creature Handler.
And again, I must insist that you consider the fact that there was a very long standing bug in which pets or anything else could be called from the datapad anytime you were outside a given radius from your house. In effect giving us instant calling, anywhere at anytime. This bug did *not* expose any exploits. This bug did *not* destroy the usefulness of camps, such as it is. This bug initially appeared to all concerned as a reasonable interim measure until pets were fixed.
Others have spoken to the PvP statistics as well. Most PvP happens in cities and in cities there is no calling restriction.
There has been no argument put forward so far that hasn't been directly contradicted by the actual evidence of the situation.
Yes true, but again the community gave them the answers.. to tool the camps to make them more useful so people will want to use them. Right now camps hold no use at all.. the average player only uses them if they are grinding scout xp or so far out in the wild that they need their vehicle that auto-stored. With player cities all over the place and vehicles, if a vehicle didnt store on its own, there would be no use for a camp. Like I said a timer on storing the pet is all you need.
vonbloodworth wrote:
I figure the reason is so that there's an advantage to having scout skills and not have a skillset and tree become immediately useless by player reckoning.
and this guy hit it right on.
NeptuneSS wrote:
Yes, but you can STILL use Camps if you WANT to. This is meant to HELP us, not hurt us. Its to keep us from grinding through our crates of camps TOO fast. You have the OPTION to use the CAMPS or wait 30 secs. Its not that hard.
Neptune
You still do not understand. the reason people are complaining is that there is no need what so ever for the timer. it is an added restraint for ch that doesnt need it, or for people running away from a pvp fight? which only 15 % of the people pvp anyway, so really why do we need the timer? there are no valid points why its being implemented. TH has not and probably will not post why its needed because frankly they do not know. they have no clue why its going in. Everyone against it has proven that it is not needed, there are already "restraints" in place to prevent greifing and exploting. this timer is excessive and completly useless.
So before anyone decides to post the usual "deal with it', or "no big deal", why dont you think instead but WHY? why is it in in the first place?
Aucob wrote:
Of course, there is always the possibility that the only reason the new 30 second timer was created was to prevent easy escape by popping out your speeder and riding off.
It may be that this 30 second timer didn't have anything to do with CHs and it was just a side effect of a cool feature they were adding for vehicles for all the non-scouts.
If that is the case, could we pretty please have a discussion about whether a 30 second calling timer is still warranted for pets, while leaving it intact for vehicles?
Full disclosure: I'm a master CH who has never pvp'd. I have dealt with the camp calling requirement for pets for a long time now, but have glimpsed a bright shining future where it doesn't exist (and neither does the 30 second requirement for pets).
Then the Devs need to fess up and say so. They haven't given us any reasonable explanation of why this is so vitally necessary.
They have stated in the past that vehicles, faction items, mounts and pets were *completely* different subsystems. Aside from the abundant evidence that this isn't true, if we take them at their word then they have no reason to apply this blanket rule to all items called from the datapad. They either *are* separate systems and the Devs have some explaining to do or they *aren't* separate systems and they've lied to us. Neither of these adequately explains why the Devs are neither explainingthe changenor fixingthe problem that has raised such an uproar.
Ok Castigula, i will answer the question of WHY. Its because the devs said so, thats why. So ne ner, ne ner.
Deal with it. Its no big deal. You should just pop a tent and be happy. 