Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-15: Combat Roles; Swordsman
An AP3 weapon would be great!
I agree with the person thatsuggested making the cleaver AP3,for a couple reasons:
- It seems a bit inequitable that there is a ranged profession with AP3, but no melee profession has it. I can see AP3 going to either Swordsman or Pikeman, but I think it fits our character better
- ATKartist can do more damage per secondvs. heavy armor than we can(and Iaccounted for differentAP levels,ideal slicing, the speed equation, etc.)This is obscene.If we arenot better at damaging armored targets, will someone please tell me what our strength is supposed to be?An AP3 cleaver would allow us to do833 dps against heavy armor(a modest22% more than the TK artist). This is not unreasonable, and would make us better in an area where we should excel
- The cleaver has lousy DPS.Upgrading it to heavy armor piercing would give it a muchneeded 25%damage increase againstthe most common armor levels (none, light, and medium), thus making what is arguably our best looking weapon a more viable choice
NovaSpice wrote:
"Dropping turrets fast. dropping ATST. ranged kiting is real problem tho with players. if reached, no KD or dizzy to aid us in keeping our targets within range."
Guys. Swords should never cut through Turbolaser turets or AT-ST armor. I hope the Swordsman profession gets a boost too, but the ability to take down an Imperial walker of turret with ease should NEVER be a quality of your profession.
Swords in Star Wars are not Conan the Barbarian style. As a GM of an actual Star Wars RPG (D20), I emphasize the fact that you don't bring a sword to a blaster fight (just like you don't bring a knife to a gun fight).
I do believe Swordsman have their place (just like Fencers and Pikemen), but taking down heavy armor should never be something a melee profession (save for the Jedi) should be able to do.
-Jowltharr, 2/4/4/3 Teras Kasi Artist
Well, I agree that it should not be easy to take down a turret or ATST, butin case you didn't know,weare already effective against them. They gave us theAP2 blast damagepowerhammer...what else do you do with such a thing but demolish turrets and walkers? Especially when you get a number of Swordsmen together, anything vulnerable to blast damage is going down...fast.
Long story short, we're not asking for much new here, just inlcuding part of our current abilities in our vision of what we want to be, when the dust settles.
raider7734 wrote:
NovaSpice wrote:
"Dropping turrets fast. dropping ATST. ranged kiting is real problem tho with players. if reached, no KD or dizzy to aid us in keeping our targets within range."
Guys. Swords should never cut through Turbolaser turets or AT-ST armor. I hope the Swordsman profession gets a boost too, but the ability to take down an Imperial walker of turret with ease should NEVER be a quality of your profession.
Swords in Star Wars are not Conan the Barbarian style. As a GM of an actual Star Wars RPG (D20), I emphasize the fact that you don't bring a sword to a blaster fight (just like you don't bring a knife to a gun fight).
I do believe Swordsman have their place (just like Fencers and Pikemen), but taking down heavy armor should never be something a melee profession (save for the Jedi) should be able to do.
-Jowltharr, 2/4/4/3 Teras Kasi Artist
Well, I agree that it should not be easy to take down a turret or ATST, butin case you didn't know,weare already effective against them. They gave us theAP2 blast damagepowerhammer...what else do you do with such a thing but demolish turrets and walkers? Especially when you get a number of Swordsmen together, anything vulnerable to blast damage is going down...fast.
Long story short, we're not asking for much new here, just inlcuding part of our current abilities in our vision of what we want to be, when the dust settles.
Yeah, although the name says swordsman, were really "melee heavy weapon specialists". It would be good to see a multitude of weapons and damage types to help us tactically, eg, swords, hammers, maces, flails etc.
Unless of course that sword is a light saber - which, let's not forget *IS* a two handed sword, no matter what anyone would like to think (and no, that's not a call for us to be given lightsabers
)Because we're melee fighters, we are at a substantial disadvantage out in the open, but God help you if you let us get within swinging distance - I like the idea of a "charge" skill, a very short duration burst run to help us close on ranged fighters - who's accuracy should go to hell by the way as soon as they start running (especially riflemen, less so carbineers and even less so pistoliers) - can you honestly see a sniper with a 4 foot long rifle hitting ANYTHING if they're running away as fast as they can ? Hell, if I close to within melee range you shouldn't even be able to hit me because the barrel of the damned thing ends behind me - but that's another discussion entirely, suffice to say that kiting is extremely naff.
The immediate concern which CAN be addressed with minimal dev revamping, we need to in my opinion be able to hold our own against a Fencer and a TKA in pvp. You whacked our abilities to do massive damage and quite frankley we had a momentary chance to survive a one on one with the bleed incap knocking out the TKA giving us time to recover from the dizzy. My suggestion for immediate consideration is give us better state defenses...especially dizzy (we are tanks...shouldn't we have hard heads too?). If not that, then give us a knockdown-slow to recover attack that we can use reliably. Put us on common ground...
OR Roll it back to get bleed incap a (or make it a swordsman only ability and re-establish our Damage factors.
and more MOVES!
Ldwater wrote:I think they are gonna nerf the TKA with the KD / Dizzy, simply because its too exploitable to keep an enemy defenceless and motionless, so I dont think we should worry too much about that.
Is it really a tka nerf? Every combination of KD+ (delay or dizzy) is overpowered. (actually KD+delay is worse than KD+dizzy). It's a I win button, your foes are just laying on the ground, defenseless and waiting for being slain. While KDed, they take more damages, so it's broke even more the damage dealing comparison between profession.
Swordman should be the greatest damages dealer in melee, but what does it mean if a tka can do more with a KD+delay (like warcry 1 on novice brawler) that swordman doesn't get?
I worry more about stats effect and the like, that's the real imbalance in combat. Stats effect should give you an edge, not be a guarantee of victory (with combo or not). If you have stats effect, you shouldn't have the same power/speed/bonus than an other profession.
They should have some of the highest melee defense stats in the game, as well as toughness, since right now, they don't, as they actually have some of the lowest defenses of the melee.
What unique abilities?
They should be able knock their foes around with their blows.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The advantage of reducing the damage to the entire group, by knocking down foes, or smacking them away from players that are in danger.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Not too sure... Maybe just rely on doctors for buffs to let them withstand more damage, and the occasional heals.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Other professions should rely on the Swordsman to protect them from threats.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Their unique role should be to help deal damage to large vehicles, and buildings with their mighty attacks.
It seems as though some level of relativity is implied. But since I don't want to speak for the other professions, I did some free-association.
Teras Kasi Artist
- Bruce Lee
- black belt
- Fast, efficient, agile
Fencer
- Zorro
- Long lasting,flourishing battle style - parry
- Fast, deadly, agile
Heavy Swordsman
- Samurai
- Conan the Barbarian
- Heavy-Hitting, deadly, quick dispatch
Pikeman
- Knight
- Front line defense
- stone hard defender
What defines theSwordsmanrole in combat?
To me, the swordsman role in combat is that of the samurai. They dispatch opponents as quickly and thoroughly as possible. Although savage fighters, I see an inward quality to them, much like Teras Kasi. The Swordsman is a heavy damage dealer,vulnerable to ranged attack but very deadlyonce they get into range to use the sword. Althoughnot the best atdefense, they are hard to kill at close range.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
- Heavy damage dealers (lower than pikeman's but faster, much heavier hitting than TKA or Fencer's, but slower)
- low ranged defense (lower than fencer or pikeman, same for TKA)
- medium to high meleeabsorption (lower than pikeman, higher than TKA or Fencer)
- Low melee evasion (higher than Pikeman, lower than TKA or Fencer)
- medium speed (slower than TKA or Fencer, faster than Pikeman)
- optimal against 2-4 opponents (not as devastating crowd control as pike, but better than TKA or Fencer)
- Accuracy - better than we have now
What offensive abilities?
Through the use of bleeds and focused attacks, the ability to focus high damage on the Mind Pool is our most defining ability. I would like to see the arrangement and skill to be geared even more toward this precedent. For instance, Head Hit 3 should probably be in the Master box, and make the HAM cost and speed reflect the mastery.
The bonuses of armor piercing and blast damage are also defining characteristics of our offensive capability.
What defensive abilities?
Our best defense is a good offense, although I think our current defenses are fine where they are. Counterattack sounds like a logical defensive ability. Defensively, I think we should be weak against ranged opponents, but not when running. We should be strong absorber types, but not as agile as TKA or Fencer. From an idealistic viewpoint, I think the bare-chested brute lugging a huge melee weapon fits us best.
I think the TKA and Swordsman should be un-armored style fighters, whereas the fencer and Pikeman should be armored style fighters. I read an idea in another thread that classes such as Pikeman get some sort of "armor mitigation" that assumes they will be wearing it, and thus compensates them a bit in terms of encumberances. TKA and Swordsman, then, would get some bonuses for not wearing armor.
What unique abilities?
I would love to see some sort of skill - like meditation -that focused our offensive capability for a duration of time. TKA focus inwardly on defense when they meditate (and recieve healing and buffs). Swordsman should focus inwardly on offense when we meditate (and recieve modifiers to accuracy and damage).
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
We should be the "shock troopers", as stated elsewhere. We should be sent in to the enemy lines for quick and deadly strikes, but not holding the attention of the enemyforever if we cannot dispatch them. We are the anti-tank offensively, smashing through everything but the best armor. A group would gain the advantage of a highly focused strike on key positions with a swordsman in the group. In a group with a TKA, Pikeman, or Fencer, we would not be the tank.
The Pikeman should be the heavy tank, the Fencer should be the most evasive tank, and the TKA should be a good mix of a defensive and evasive tank. Swordsman would be a medium tank (ranged being light).
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Suppose there were unique combinations that only happened in a group dynamic with a Squad Leader. A swordsman could perhaps give a "battle aura" to the group. Each profession could give a different aura. So when in a group led by a squad leader, bonuses to some stat or roll could be given by the swordsman to the rest of the group. In this way, the game would encourage playersto form varied groups with Squad Leaders at the helm. Thisshould not be limited to combat professions.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
It would be great if there was some way to bring different combatants together and on the same page when fighting. For instance, when I am in a group with a carbineer, a TKA, and Pistoleer, we would be fighting the mob as if we were solo, basically. In other words, we all just start wailing on the enemy willy-nilly, attacking all different HAM bars and applying DOTs and status changes and hoping they somehow work together. I don't depend or interact with a pistoleer in any meaningful way whatsoever. However, if we could somehow focus our attacks on the same HAM, or we had status change combos that bridged professions, we would be getting somewhere.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
That of the Samurai or the barbarian. In the GCW, we should be warriors on the fringe of technology and society. We lend our blades to the cause we believe in, smashing through enemy armor wherever the battle is hottest. We should beeffective against heavy troopers or shock troopers and small groups, but weak against snipers at long range. To reflect ourrole, wecould perhaps get some sort ofbonus when in enemy territory. Or perhaps we can get a plus tooffense vs. enemy faction. To compare, Pikemen for instance could get a bonus to defense vs. faction.
Just my thoughts.
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
3.)What offensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?