Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Friday Feature Jan 23rd Jedi Revamp
Here we go:
My ideas involve - of course - mastering different professions. But as I totally dislike the Hologrinding and especially the frustrating run up and down all types of professions once a holocron was silent, I thought of ways to prevent this. Here is what I came up with:
The Force Sensitive Character Slot is unlocked after mastering four Elite Professions. This sounds not much - but let me explain.
Profession One:
The first elite profession is free of choice. The player (if new to the game, I will cover "old" characters later) starts the game with a certain profession and I self-set goal, lets make it Smuggler here. So he starts playing and eventually he will become a Master Smuggler. This will trigger the path to the FSCS (as the player has mastered an elite profession). The player will receive a mail with a waypoint attached where some stranger wants to meet with him. Needless to say that this NPC would spawn at random locations to prevent camping and griefing.
Once the player has reached the NPC, he will receive some missions to do from him. How many depends on how hard/easy it is supposed to be to unlock the FSCS. The missions the player receives are generated for the profession he mastered especially. So they take advantage of all the things a master smuggler can do.
Profession Two:
Once the player has completed all the "profession one" missions for the NPC, this NPC will tell him that he needs a certain item/something done, but he has to go undercover because some old "friends" are after him.
So the player receives a new mission - which will be of a kind that he has to master a different profession in order to succeed in that mission. This could for example be a request for a type of armor only an Armorsmith can craft - or a type of weapon - a dance - a special item to be looted.
After giving this mission the NPC will disappear for 30 days (at least - as not all players are powergamers that can do the professions that fast) to prevent the powergamer to grind up e.g. armorsmith, craft the armor and head back to the NPC to continue. After 30 days, the player receives another email with a new waypoint where his NPC spawns again.
The player hands the armor over to the NPC and by doing that he triggers a certain amount of Armorsmith missions that he has to complete.
Profession three/four:
Works exactly as prof. two. After doing all the missions the NPC gives for profession two, he will once again give a mission that can only be done by a certain master of a profession. He again disappears for 30 or more days and leaves the player alone. After that time he spawns once more and the fun begins again for profession number four. With profession four, the player again has to do some missions for that type of profession.
After the fourth profession:
Once the player has mastered all four professions and done all the missions for the NPC, the NPC will reveal to him, that he (i.e. the player) has successfully passed all the test and he has proven worthy. The NPC will then give the player one more mission - the final test.
The final test:
The final test should be something very Jedi-like. For example something where the player has to decide (and only decide to make it possible no matter what the fourth profession was. You can't send a Master Dancer out to kill a krayt neither can you send a Master BountyHunter to heal somebody up) something. This could also involve light/dark side affection.
After passing the test (could involve some sort of trivia game as well), the player finally gets the message, that his force sensitive slot as been unlocked.
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General settings for this idea:
The biggest problem right now in the jedi system is - as far as I am concerned - the "silent" profession or better the hologrinding in general. People get their first holo, grind the profession, learn the master and drop it instantly to get to the next profession.
So in about 2 Months a powergamer can at least come to his silent holo and start grinding all the professions left. Either he is lucky and his slot is unlocked after the first profession - or he is not and has to do 24 professions.
Though I understand that it has to be hard to become a jedi I think this system is way too frustrating because you never know, how long the grinding will go on and as soon as you come to a profession that totally doesn't interest you, you might more likely become frustrated rather than really trying that profession.
I think the jedi should be an achievable goal in a way. It is now, but it is very, very random. So I thought up the way described above in detail (well more or less in detail
).However there have to be certain rules to prevent us all from eventually unlocking the FSCS (which would happen if you just took the suggestions I made above).
Rules for unlocking the FSCS:
1) The items the QuestNPC requests have to be made by the player that has received that mission. For crafted item this is quite easy to do, as they have a serial number and tell who has crafted them.
For fighting mission involving mobs you could prevent the player from buying the item in a way that he might well get help with this, but maybe he should have to loot an item only he can loot. So the NPC/game would know that the player who received the mission actually really was involved in getting that item. I guess there is no way to prevent the player from getting help in fighting missions as this would basically mean to redo a lot of the game from scratch - which it of course totally impossible. But if there is a way, then of course it would be good to make even the fighting missions possible only for the player who received that mission and for no one else.
For other sorts of missions e.g. dancers, medics, etc. I must honestly say I haven't figured out a way to make those missions hard enough to make them worth being in this quest for the FSCS. Maybe in that case simply a larger amount of missions to do would do the trick. I don't know.
2) The time between the NPC spawns is another important factor - as this basically determines how long it actually takes the player to unlock his slot. After the NPC has given the mission which requires the player to master a new profession it should surely not spawn early then 30 days from that day - to prevent powergamers from becoming jedi in a few weeks. On the other hand, we have to think of the casual gamer again. For a real casual gamer it might be hard to become a master in an elite profession within 30 days but still he should receive the chance to unlock his slot. So we have two different groups of people. The powergamer and the casual gamer. And they both want the FSCS.
This is why I suggest that the NPC is allowed to spawn after 30 days. If there is a powergamer who has already reached master level he knows that he has to wait exactly 30 days to go on. Until then he has to keep the master of course - as he knows that he will have to do more missions that require his master skills once the NPC spawns again.
Well and the casual gamer doesn't have to fear he can't make it in 30 days and would see himself forced to powergame as from day 30 on, the game would check every day, if the player has reached master level. As soon as he has *poof* there comes the NPC. So the casual gamer would have as much time as he wants while the power gamer can move through this faster - but not too fast.
3) Failure. Of course it is possible to fail certain tasks. Those should also involve some sort of maximum time allowed per mission. Again, this is a problem for the casual gamer so I'd say the maximum time should be at about 20-30 days. After all the player, no matter if casual or power, is at master level when he receives missions. So even if a casualgamer has to craft for example some type of armor 30 days should be more then enough to complete that task.
What happens in case of failure? Well, this is something I am very strict on. If a player fails one task it is no problem. He can simply run back to the NPC and regrab the mission without any delay. So the player would be allowed to fail once for each stage (i.e. profession). If a player fails a second task on the same stage, nearly everything is lost. He has to start over.
No matter at which stage he is, the master profession he currently has will be seen as if it was his first. So of course he can still talk to the NPC and will receive missions for his current profession. But that profession for example was his fourth one, it is now his first and he has to do three more new ones. Becoming a jedi shouldn't be that much a piece of cake.
For the worst case scenario: You fail so often that you end up with having reached master level in all available professions over time. In that case, the NPC profession quests fall silent and you are directly send to the final test. As that player would surely have worked hard enough to become a jedi. Of course this only works if you fail Quest missions. It would be impossible to simply not go the the NPC after mastering the very first profession and then run to him once you mastered all professions (which would be stupid anyway, as you'd have a chance to unlock the slot much faster if you talk to the NPC directly).
4) What is with those that already have mastered several professions? Well some of those players really like the professions they have. So it would be kind of tough to have them wipe their professions totally. And after all - they have already reached at least one elite profession. But of course it would be far to easy to simply send all those players the Quest-activation mail. So we have to split these players in two groups: Those who have already mastered an elite profession and those who are on the way to their first elite master.
Those who are on the way to their first master are covered by the system I already described. So they require no special stuff.
Those who have already earned an elite master title would be required only to reach a master in one of the six starting professions. This would of course mean that maybe those players have to surrender one of their elite professions but they wouldn't have to start all over again. So the damage for those is minimized and of course they can simply decide not to try to go for jedi and simply keep going the way they were.
For the case that a player (who was grinding holos) has already mastered all the starting professions. Those players should receive the mail instantly, as they have worked up their way to jedi already in a way. However, to make this fair, if they would get for example Master Creature Handler as a goal from the FSCS NPC, they would have to do that again. No matter if they already have the badge or not.
I know that this is something not every player would like, but this would have to happen to keep the game fair and the chances of unlocking the FSCS even.
5) How long should it take to unlock the slot. Well given a total of 4 professions, with 3 of them being timed for at least 30 days, we would have something around 100-110 days for a power gamer to unlock the slot - if he doesn't fail twice in one professions missions that is. For the casual gamer the time would be from 100 days - more or less endless.
But as I mentioned before the time it at least takes can be raised by adding more missions to the different stages or raising the difficulty level of those missions. That would involve a higher chance of failing and thus a longer time. But still every player would know that eventually he has a chance to become a jedi.
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Conclusion: I had the general idea about this just today and most of the ideas came to my mind while writing this text. So it might be a little bit hard to read from time to time maybe but I guess in general, the ideas I have become clear and are a quite fair and even way to unlocking the FSCS. I hope that my ideas in some way contribute to the final way it is done.
Generally all I can say is: No matter how the unlocking will be done: Make it hard, but not too hard. The player should be able to do it solo (after all jedi is a lonely road these days). And please make it FUN. Grinding professions endlessly isn't fun. It really isn't.
Last but not least I'd like to apologize for all grammatical errors in this text. English is not my first language and though I speak it fluently, my written english tends to be a bit strange from time to time, but I guess the main ideas become clear in this text.
And one last thing to you dear reader: Thanks for reading it all!
(No not you! You cheated. You just started reading the text below mine and only read the last few lines! 
).
Would be nice if a moderator could delete both this and my long post.
Thanks. And sorry again.
FOR THE DEV.S
A COMBINATION OF ALL THE IDEAS ON THE PREVIOUS 39 PAGES.
I have read all posts before this one, which took me several hours. Here is my synopsis of what a great Jedi System would be:
CHANGES FOR THE CURRENT JEDI PLAYER:
#1) Make a Test Jedi Server that would allow anyone to start a FS character from scratch. This "fake" test server would allow people to play with the idea of jedi, without losing the realism of Jedi on the Live "Realistic" Servers. THis is also a great way for the devs to trouble shoot bugs that are in the Jedi system.
#2) The best way to control Jedi population and be fair to the players is not permadeath, but rather to have a time suspension of 20 days for any Jedi that are killed. In other words, if you die as a Jedi , then you can't play that character for 20 days (or 10 days, 30 days, etc..whatever seems fair). Afterall, the players can just log on their original player and play them until the 20 days is up.
AND
Put a cap on how much exp a Jedi can gain in a week (or day). This way a grinder can get the exp in 2 days, or a casual player can get it in 7 days, but in the end, they all have the same exp. This would allow Jedi characters to roleplayer more knowing that there is no reason to rush at getting exp. After a Jedi caps his exp in a week, then he can roleplay for the remainer, or log on their regular character and play him/her.
#3) Make Light-Sabers a new type of damage.. like "laser" damage or even "light-saber" damage instead of kinetic. In addition to not having any armor that would have any defenses against this type of damage. These posts are right... Light Sabers should cut through composite armor like a hot knife through butter.
#4) A Jedi's character profile should be seen as a mirror image of what their original character has in it. Therefore, Jedi characters would not be so easily identified. All the badges and text fo the regular characters profile would show up on the Jedi's profile automatically.
CHANGES TO THE FS UNLOCKING SYSTEM:
There should be special types of FS exp that a character must gain to unlock his/her slot. In my version, there are4 classes of FS exp, each obtained differently. Class A, B, C, and D forcesensitve exp are the 4 types, explained below:
Class A fs exp-- is gained whenever a profession is Mastered. Each profession can be worth about 1,000 fs exp, and you need 10,000 exp to fill this bar. Seriously, anyone who has mastered 10 professions (or 3, or 6, or whaterver is fair) has done alot in the game. Also, those that like Healing can do all the Medic Professions and some combat. If you like Crafting, then you can do all the crafting professions available, then some medic and combat professions. BUT, there are two catches... First, you can only gain additional class A fs exp30 days after you master a profession. So for those that master a profession in one day, now you get to roleplay that profession for another 29 days atleast before you can get class A fs exp for mastering your next profession. Second, POSITVE ENDING: Once you complete all your Class A exp, then the game allows you to completely regain a prior Mastered Profession, or combination there of. This way, a player doesn't have to feel they had to GIVE UP their personally liked profession. And actually, you could go back to the profession you liked the best. Or maybe use a holocron to "recall past knowledge" of a profession.
Class B fs exp-- this exp is gained by exploring the game. Such as, some exp for visiting POIs, doing quests, or themparks, or declaring residence, or gaining rank in the imperial or rebel alliance.
Class C fs exp- Is based on quests on a month to month basis. Just like the Acts of Aldeeran, every month there would be a quest involving a Jedi theme. There would be a Light Side Quest and a Dark Side quest, and the player would get to pick which one they want to do. You only get some exp per quest, and then you have to waituntil next month for another quest to come out for more exp. This will also help stop the GRIND of the above two A & B classes, because you can't unlock your FSCS until you get enough fs exp in all Classes (A, B, C, D). This Class C Quest based exp would be on a obvouis time guide to deter grinding. Once you finish your quest for the month, you go back to getting class A and B fs exp.A bonus in immediate implication of this system would go to current players based on how long their accounts have been active. So a player who has been here since the beginning would get bonus class C fs exp right away added it this fs exp bar.
Class D fs exp-- Once a profession is mastered, that player will get class D fs exp everytime he/she does something that would gain them exp in thatmastered profession. So a Master Rifleman would get class D fs exp when using a rifle in combat. A Master Dancer would start to get class D fs exp as he/she danced after becoming a master. This would encourage players to stay with one profession at one point in the game and really enjoy it. Also, there could be a cap on how much class D fs exp you could get in a week to prevent people from grinding all the time.
PRIOR WORK: Players who still have holos or who grinded more than 10 professions could be substituted additional fs exp for each holo turned in or profession mastered, but no more than a certain amount of fs exp in each class (say no more then 15% of total exp in a fs class).
This allows for a very well rounded character and is someone I believe should unlock their force sensitive slot.
FORCE SENSITIVE CHARACTER:
There should be a so-called "Force Sensitive" profession tree before one becomes a Light-Saber wielding killer. WHen you unlock your FSCS, you get a character who is force sensitive, but cannot use the force really and cannot wield a light saber. This character would be where the long line of quests come into play. Maybe even have a few skill points they could have (like 50), in addition to minor force abilities they would get in this profession tree. The ONLY way to get exp in thisstage would be to complete the unique Jedi-related quests. A player could only do one quest evey 30 days. So, after completing a quest, one would have to wait 30 days to do the next quest. In the meantime, they would go back to playing their other character. If they fail the quest, then they have to wait 48 hours to repeat that quest.
After all this, would one becomea Jedi.
FOR THE DEV.S
A COMBINATION OF ALL THE IDEAS ON THE PREVIOUS 39 PAGES.
I have read all posts before this one, which took me several hours. Here is my synopsis of what a great Jedi System would be:
CHANGES FOR THE CURRENT JEDI PLAYER:
#1) Make a Test Jedi Server that would allow anyone to start a FS character from scratch. This "fake" test server would allow people to play with the idea of jedi, without losing the realism of Jedi on the Live "Realistic" Servers. THis is also a great way for the devs to trouble shoot bugs that are in the Jedi system.
#2) The best way to control Jedi population and be fair to the players is not permadeath, but rather to have a time suspension of 20 days for any Jedi that are killed. In other words, if you die as a Jedi , then you can't play that character for 20 days (or 10 days, 30 days, etc..whatever seems fair). Afterall, the players can just log on their original player and play them until the 20 days is up.
AND
Put a cap on how much exp a Jedi can gain in a week (or day). This way a grinder can get the exp in 2 days, or a casual player can get it in 7 days, but in the end, they all have the same exp. This would allow Jedi characters to roleplayer more knowing that there is no reason to rush at getting exp. After a Jedi caps his exp in a week, then he can roleplay for the remainer, or log on their regular character and play him/her.
#3) Make Light-Sabers a new type of damage.. like "laser" damage or even "light-saber" damage instead of kinetic. In addition to not having any armor that would have any defenses against this type of damage. These posts are right... Light Sabers should cut through composite armor like a hot knife through butter.
#4) A Jedi's character profile should be seen as a mirror image of what their original character has in it. Therefore, Jedi characters would not be so easily identified. All the badges and text fo the regular characters profile would show up on the Jedi's profile automatically.
CHANGES TO THE FS UNLOCKING SYSTEM:
There should be special types of FS exp that a character must gain to unlock his/her slot. In my version, there are4 classes of FS exp, each obtained differently. Class A, B, C, and D forcesensitve exp are the 4 types, explained below:
Class A fs exp-- is gained whenever a profession is Mastered. Each profession can be worth about 1,000 fs exp, and you need 10,000 exp to fill this bar. Seriously, anyone who has mastered 10 professions (or 3, or 6, or whaterver is fair) has done alot in the game. Also, those that like Healing can do all the Medic Professions and some combat. If you like Crafting, then you can do all the crafting professions available, then some medic and combat professions. BUT, there are two catches... First, you can only gain additional class A fs exp30 days after you master a profession. So for those that master a profession in one day, now you get to roleplay that profession for another 29 days atleast before you can get class A fs exp for mastering your next profession. Second, POSITVE ENDING: Once you complete all your Class A exp, then the game allows you to completely regain a prior Mastered Profession, or combination there of. This way, a player doesn't have to feel they had to GIVE UP their personally liked profession. And actually, you could go back to the profession you liked the best. Or maybe use a holocron to "recall past knowledge" of a profession.
Class B fs exp-- this exp is gained by exploring the game. Such as, some exp for visiting POIs, doing quests, or themparks, or declaring residence, or gaining rank in the imperial or rebel alliance.
Class C fs exp- Is based on quests on a month to month basis. Just like the Acts of Aldeeran, every month there would be a quest involving a Jedi theme. There would be a Light Side Quest and a Dark Side quest, and the player would get to pick which one they want to do. You only get some exp per quest, and then you have to waituntil next month for another quest to come out for more exp. This will also help stop the GRIND of the above two A & B classes, because you can't unlock your FSCS until you get enough fs exp in all Classes (A, B, C, D). This Class C Quest based exp would be on a obvouis time guide to deter grinding. Once you finish your quest for the month, you go back to getting class A and B fs exp.A bonus in immediate implication of this system would go to current players based on how long their accounts have been active. So a player who has been here since the beginning would get bonus class C fs exp right away added it this fs exp bar.
Class D fs exp-- Once a profession is mastered, that player will get class D fs exp everytime he/she does something that would gain them exp in thatmastered profession. So a Master Rifleman would get class D fs exp when using a rifle in combat. A Master Dancer would start to get class D fs exp as he/she danced after becoming a master. This would encourage players to stay with one profession at one point in the game and really enjoy it. Also, there could be a cap on how much class D fs exp you could get in a week to prevent people from grinding all the time.
PRIOR WORK: Players who still have holos or who grinded more than 10 professions could be substituted additional fs exp for each holo turned in or profession mastered, but no more than a certain amount of fs exp in each class (say no more then 15% of total exp in a fs class).
This allows for a very well rounded character and is someone I believe should unlock their force sensitive slot.
FORCE SENSITIVE CHARACTER:
There should be a so-called "Force Sensitive" profession tree before one becomes a Light-Saber wielding killer. WHen you unlock your FSCS, you get a character who is force sensitive, but cannot use the force really and cannot wield a light saber. This character would be where the long line of quests come into play. Maybe even have a few skill points they could have (like 50), in addition to minor force abilities they would get in this profession tree. The ONLY way to get exp in thisstage would be to complete the unique Jedi-related quests. A player could only do one quest evey 30 days. So, after completing a quest, one would have to wait 30 days to do the next quest. In the meantime, they would go back to playing their other character. If they fail the quest, then they have to wait 48 hours to repeat that quest.
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lol, ok everyones complainin aboot somethin or another, but DEVs you gotta take into consideration that these guys are right, jedi should be rare, really damn rare, we have too many as it is, im workin my butt off to get to jedi, and i appreciate the jedis out there, but when you make this quest thingy come out all of the sudden people r gunna find a loop (just like the baz nitches, or the kungas, or all those other great unlimited cash deals) and were gunna wake up one mornin with everyone a jedi, cuz the truth is, quests can be rushed, now why dont you combine the holo idea, everyone does 3 holos, becomes force-sensitive, then they have to undergo a series of quests, preferably alone...i dunno, people propably wont even read this but theres my 2 cents
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Sorry about the blank posts, dunno why it happened. Also, when I tried to edit it so I didn't have to psot a 3rd time it gave me a message saying I did not have access to the in concept forums *shrug*. The devs real problem when it comes to Jedi is that people do not want to lose.
If a player spends 2 months without sleeping working for something, then loses it he is going to be pissed off even if he WAS warned. Since most hologrinders (not all) just want to work their way up to the "god" profession and in essence, win SWG, there is no way to effectively control the population of any one profession but to cap it, which will lose a good portion of the current subscriptions. Any control system is doomed to failure because no matter what, Jedi are going to be mad when they lose something. Get killed by a bounty hunter and lose lightsabers 4? go on the forums and **edit** about bounty hunters being overpowered and if you're really pissed, jedi being underpowered. Since I have seen ymself a Jedi who had not yet reached padawan do 300-400 damage *AUTO-FIRE* in PvP, I know that all "Jedi underpowered" posts are 100% BULL**edit**. Jedi want to be gods at initiate and are going to cry until they are.
So, the real problem is the player, not the system. No Jedi pop control will work because no Jedi will ever peacefully accept the penalties of their own death.