Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Friday Feature Jan 23rd Jedi Revamp
Everquest in Space, Baby....
Now if my Combat Medic could only run as fast as my bard... 
/begin $0.02
I'm all for this quest-based system for opening the FSS. I hope it is as simple as an NPC spawning somewhere randomly once a day/week/month on each server. That would mean that the devs are actually catering Jedi towards all players, and not just the power gamers who have 8-12 hours a day to grind meaninglessly through every single profession. Not to mention the fact that this sort of set-up would be more in keeping with the SW story. It's about time that Jedi become rare and poweful beings rather than a rewards for mindless macro-writing and double-clicking.
/end $0.02
Very good thoughts Kaloman! 
Kaloman wrote:
End point, a jedi life is very hard, and if people can't cope with that then they shouldn't play jedi. What the Devs probably should be working on as a whole is entire game content. Not trying to please these few people that are whining cause they aren't as cool as Darth Vader or Luke Skywalker (who by the way is a whiny wuss in the movies)
I agree. This isn'tanother Jedi-game, like Jedi Knight or KOTOR. Playing a Jedi should be so difficult that it only fits a very small group of dedicated players (preferably players who can RP it pretty well).
Kaloman wrote:
Jedi are rare. In this timeline at this point in time, there are only 3 highly powerful jedi: The Emperor, Darth Vader and Yoda. Luke is hardly part of the equation yet. Yes there are other force sensitives out there, but they are minor even still to Luke. Most force sensitives are either supressing their abilities, or are in deep hiding (Yoda). The progression for a jedi should be SLOW.
I was thinking this very same thing. Thinking in terms of timeline and emmersion, Jedi are rare and seldom seen. So keeping the Jedi few, yet powerful should be the focus.
As for the perma-death. Well, I agree with both issues there. I didn't dislike the perma-death, but people want to play a jedi and succeed.
For exp, I would have to say that a jedi shouldn't only get exp when they wield a lightsaber. A jedi should get exp anytime they use a force power to further a goal. How they use thier power and to what goal should grant either dark or light exp. That would help signify what path the jedi is on.
Kaloman wrote:
FSC. I feel that unlocking a seperate FSC is silly. I think that the character that unlocks force sensitivity should just flat out become force sensitive and be able to learn the force. I think that the FSC not being able to learn any non-force skills is silly.
End point, a jedi life is very hard, and if people can't cope with that then they shouldn't play jedi.
I am all for jedi permadeath. And let me tell you why.
I thought about becoming a jedi, but decided id rather have fun with the normal game features. Now if a jedi master is supposed to be able to kill 10-20 peeps. Tell me what happens once they take away permadeath, and masters are running all over the place? All other combat profs will be completely useless.
I mean i feel like im winston churchill here warning people about the nazis, once permadeath gets taken away,m it will be the annexing of the sudatenalnd. Jedi will freely enter PvP and just start raping everyone.
Everyone has made some really good points in this thread... Let's see if I can add something constructive.
1. Why can't the Jedi populous wax and wane? Dev's could set a 50/100/1000Jedi "cap" and could increase / decrease that cap based on the stage of the game.
2. Create a Jedi Counsel to assign missions to "good" jedi's and have a sith lord assign missions to the "evil" Jedi's ... Giving them a purpose in the game, and a way to carry their character from padawan to master. There is no reason for Jedi's to be out running around aimlessly wacking furry animals to gain xp. Their XP should be soley based upon missions/quest given to them. This would give the devs the ability to control how long a Jedi's path will take.
3. Bring back permadeath... to a point. Maybe only at the hands of another Jedi, or at the hands of a bounty hunter. Since the Jedi population is controlled (see #1) then when a Jedi dies the next person in line gets a FS. Kinda like a revolving door. How do you ensure this door keeps revolving? Make sure the bounty hunter mission terms have the jedi's names and solid information to hunt them down. Give Jedis a special TEF to BH's and other Jedi's. On the Jedi TEF its Evil vs Good ... On the BH TEF it's based on mission only. (I know this idea is incomplete, but I'm trying to give the Dev's our best efforts at being constructive, and not destructive)
3a. Another way to keep the Jedi "births and deaths" revolving is to incorportate Jedi battles, and duels that could be set / staged by invite or mission. This would be very entertaining to all onlookers and this method could have a huge reward / penalty... the reward could be something that affected the stage of the game, and the penalty is death to the losing jedi. I understand the flip side is... Why would anyone ever participate in a duel/battle if they've worked so hard to get to their current jedi status?... Make it mandatory!!! Make it part of the Jedi process.... include the Jedi Trials!, force Jedi's to defend a city whenthe trade federation drop off their robot armies! If they don't particiapte they dont get the badge to advance in their Jedi status.That is a heck of a lot more entertaining than holo-grinding.
4. What if we changed the system from a "Force Slot" to "ForceSensitive Skill Points".Maybe I don't want to apply my force points to becoming a Jedi. Maybe I want to apply them to mycurrent character...I think it would be awesome to have my current character gain force abilities and apply them to my armorsmithing... Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that Luke was a pilot and a Jedi. His force abilites helped him in both aspects. What If my character could create"Metaclorian Armor" (or something force enhanced) This could be applied to all profesions and would solve the issue of keeping the galaxy balanced with crafters, dancers, doctors, fighters, etc etc. Again an incomplete Idea but someting a little more on the right path.
5. How do you get a "Force Slot" or "Force Sensitve Skill Points" ? BOOOO TO THE HOLO-GRINDING. Make it totally random. Hand out 1000 Force slots per server... The dev's set the quest/missions for those Jedi's to progress... some of those 1000 are gonna die in duels / trials / missions, get ate up by BH's or Jedis from the opposing side. The revolving door starts... 20 new FS's get handed out.... Are the players who lost their FS mad? sure they are... but they know if they keep playing the game, sometime in the next 60-90 days they get another shot at it. (One more incomplete Idea in the mix)
I'm obviously not a GAME DEV, im a GAME PLAYER. I'm a 27 year old network admin who started playing SWG on day one, and left in november because the game is just not deep enough. I came back to the game on the 14 day trial from SOE. I am enticed by a few small changes in the game, but even more enticed at the dev's efforts to improve gameplay. Are they gonna let us down? I hope not. I think they are doing all they can to make this game "DEEPER" and more entertaining inside and outside the jedi class. I hope this spurs some good conversation and gives the DEV's something to work with. I would like to see the DEV's put out more posts on their efforts to improve gameplay and put out surveys to find out what their players really want. The last thing I wanna post is....
MAKE A BETTER RANDOM LOOT GENERATOR! WHERE IS MY "+4 Pistola De Greedo" ? What about my "Glowing Nightsister Force Whip", "+25 T-21 Skywalker rifle", or my "+30 Tie Fighter Helmet". Give us more unique items and random loot!!!
Big thanks to anyone who took the 4 hours out of their day to read my rants, and I hope this gets some good conversations going for the devs to follow.
Peace Out
Alabaster Blak --Master Armorsmith-- StarSider Galaxy -- Seaside on Talus
Well Alab, I would like to take a moment here to explain WHY the forced combative jedi trials will cause problems. It's the fact that after the first set of trials, only one jedi wins. They progress, all the rest are out. Then you have, say 999 new jedi, and one who is certifiably better than all of them. Second set of trials. The one who won last time wins again, due to being better skilled. 999 young jedi fall. 999 more new jedi. Third set of trials.... See where that is going. The one player lucky enough to win the first trial has already won the title of master. I guess there could be some contention with that. Perhaps someone else or a group of others kill the first winner before the trials begin. But you get the idea.
Really I agree with what had been said after my last post. Jedi should be jedi exp for their work, not their combats. Yes I know all jedi rigidly train and exercise their lightsaber combat skills, but light jedi practice so that they are ready to fight if they must. Dark jedi train so that they can quickly get through almost any of their problems.
I like an idea stated previously about doing missions and getting "force points"and possibly using them to enhance their other skills. They could be used to give a boost to a skill check that might be particularly hard. In ANH when Luke is making his trench run on the Death Star, he draws on the force to make this most critical shot. If he fails the rebellion is destroyed. If he succeeds... well we have all seen the ending. It is also possible that, since Luke had undergone several weeks of jedi training with Obi-wan before arriving at the scattered remains of Alderaan, he may have learned a force power I call Concentrate. He may have used this power to help him make such a difficult shot. Or even a combination of both. However, anyway you slice it, Luke (and many other jedi) are multi-classed. There is really no reason to limit the jedi to those three paltry professions, of which any one jedi may only learn upto two of, with 250 skill points....
Either way, I am a jedi at heart, and I will work my way to it, however I must, and I will succeed. Even if it takes me years. I am patient enough to wade through the muck and the mire as long as I must if it means I get the chance to lay my eyes upon anything more beautiful than I could imagine.
Raynor Talos - Interplanetary Knights Of the Republic - Gorath