Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
worton22 wrote:
Do ANY, I MEAN ANY, of you Devs play Imperial at all? I know you're a big rebel, TH, but not a **edit** Developer seems to have ever watched an AT-ST in PVP.
Commandos completely devastate them, period, one Flame Cone Two, and the things are for the most part dead.
The new AT-STs will have 55k, yeah, nice, BUT, YOU STILL TOOK WOUND HEALING OUT! So Flame Cone will *still* make AT-STs useless, and because of the lower overall armor, now Riflemen will own the crap out of them as well, not sure about the other classes.
If it weren't for a good friend of mine wanting to try this game at Christmas, I would have cancelled last month, and wouldn't think of returning for over a year. You guys REALLY need to test all aspects of things before you change them
In Summary:
No non-faction PVE, alright, okay, it sucks, but I agree.
Only one, well, this blows, as I have two, so that's a worthless 10k Factionpoints in the DP for the most part.
Nerfing the armor, even at the cost of * 5 HAM...**edit**? I don't understand this at all, THE AT-ST IS USELESS IN PVP, USELESS, USELESS. This doesn't help much, especially with the wound-happy Commando DOTs you explicitly intend an AT-ST to get hit with, when we can't heal it.
I'm very disappointed.
If you people want to heal your MACHINES, I suggest the Devs impliment that somewhere in the DROID ENGINEER or ARTISAN abilities. I mean, hell, if you can REBUILD an AT-ST on the FLY, shouldn't you be able to also make a Vehicle or a MSE Droid??
Oh please. You guys have AT-STs over Rebels. Get over your power trip; you can't be THAT powerful. No one can even repair thier droids. Would be quite unfair if you can repair your MECHS.
AshamonReborn wrote:
The issue is not whether or not a commando should be able to take out AT-STs better than other professions, the issue is the weapon being used to take out AT-STs. Flamethrowers? Give me a break! Even if AT-STs were constructed with composites instead of metal, I am certain that Imperial design engineers would have utilized a composite that had a thermodynamic resistance equal to if not better than an old fashioned metal like steel. How are armored vehicles destroyed in R/L? Simple, with some sort of heavy weapon that fires a shaped projectile with enough force to penetrate the vehicle's armor killing it's occupants and destroying it's ability to function through a combination of massive concussion and extreme temperature. Hasnt anyone ever heard of vaporifics?
It appears that neither the Devs or people like you have the technical knowledge or practical experience in the use and performance of combat systems to be qualified to state any opinion regarding how an AT-ST should be/could be destroyed in combat.
Even in the Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and Jedi Outcast, Kyle Katarn had a heck of a time taking out AT-STs with Rockets, Missiles, and even his light-saber.... forget about real life arguments... how about continuity with the rest of the SW universe?
I agree, to an extent. And that extent is, there are always going to be new technologies to render the old technologies obsolite. i.e. An armor developed to stop a weapon developed to penetrate an armor developed to stop a weapon developed to penetrate........... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
What you are missing, though, and what you are all missing is the simple fact that with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every change they make, for every resistance an object has, for anything that is every implimented, imagined, or dreamed in such a world, there will have to be consequences. A good 80% of this thread (not including the original post by TH) is whining; another 15% is people thinking they know better, but still haven't landed a job at SOE or Lucas; and the rest is miscellany which only scratches the surface of the overall conundrum. There is a very substantial and vital balance that must be withstanded every time a change is made, and you all seem to miss this totality in every single bleeding whiney post.
I've used this quote before, but I use it again, now, because the same need for it has obviously risen:
Without sensibility no object would be given to us, without understanding no object would be thought. Thoughts without content are empty, intuitions without concepts are blind.
Immanuel Kant, "Critique of Pure Reason"
You guys should read more ancient philosophy, it does well to help one better understand the world in which one lives... 
And another thing:
Did you all miss the fact that this is fantasy?? That perhaps this is not only another galaxy, but another dimension or something? That laws of physics that apply here do not apply there?
I don't hear anyone complaining about the exsistance of krayt dragons... Why complain about heat getting through steel? Besides, it doesn't specify what type of flame shoots out of a flamethrower on SWG. There are quite a few "types" of flames here on Earth that penetrate steel quite rapidly. And who knows? What if the accelerant used in SWG flamethrowers is also corrosive to the steel used to make an AT-ST?
You people lack imagination, though you play a game based completely on just that.
XanEldarie wrote:
And another thing:
Did you all miss the fact that this is fantasy?? That perhaps this is not only another galaxy, but another dimension or something? That laws of physics that apply here do not apply there?
I don't hear anyone complaining about the exsistance of krayt dragons... Why complain about heat getting through steel? Besides, it doesn't specify what type of flame shoots out of a flamethrower on SWG. There are quite a few "types" of flames here on Earth that penetrate steel quite rapidly. And who knows? What if the accelerant used in SWG flamethrowers is also corrosive to the steel used to make an AT-ST?
You people lack imagination, though you play a game based completely on just that.
How come our imaginations MUST match yours? Because you smart guy, ug, we dumb? You Xan are insulting in the way you hide behind your supposed knowledge of everything and furious hatred of At-St's. Most of us imperials don't want the at-st to be an uber unstopable weapon, but we DO want it to be worth the 9k + faction pts that we have to handover to get the keys persay. Until you have put in the effort to earn one for yourself, you should not be so fast to scream nerf.
My imagination is NOT lacking at all. I'm sorry if you're angry about dying to an AT-ST sometime in the game, but I guess you should have run faster?
Daak_Gelrin wrote:
How come our imaginations MUST match yours? Because you smart guy, ug, we dumb? You Xan are insulting in the way you hide behind your supposed knowledge of everything and furious hatred of At-St's. Most of us imperials don't want the at-st to be an uber unstopable weapon, but we DO want it to be worth the 9k + faction pts that we have to handover to get the keys persay. Until you have put in the effort to earn one for yourself, you should not be so fast to scream nerf.
My imagination is NOT lacking at all. I'm sorry if you're angry about dying to an AT-ST sometime in the game, but I guess you should have run faster?
Tell me this: Is there any ONE Rebel "pet" that equates to an AT-ST?
Follow this example, and find the best answer:
Take 1 Rebel, and 1 Imperial. Give them equal skills, both in terms of player skill and character skill. Grant them each 1 faction "pet," the Imperial with 1 AT-ST, and the Rebel with 1 of the "strongest" faction pets availible to him. Make the characters and the people playing them equal, only differentiated by thier respective factions and "pets".
Who wins a 1 on 1 fight? Why?
XanEldarie wrote:
Daak_Gelrin wrote:
How come our imaginations MUST match yours? Because you smart guy, ug, we dumb? You Xan are insulting in the way you hide behind your supposed knowledge of everything and furious hatred of At-St's. Most of us imperials don't want the at-st to be an uber unstopable weapon, but we DO want it to be worth the 9k + faction pts that we have to handover to get the keys persay. Until you have put in the effort to earn one for yourself, you should not be so fast to scream nerf.
My imagination is NOT lacking at all. I'm sorry if you're angry about dying to an AT-ST sometime in the game, but I guess you should have run faster?
Tell me this: Is there any ONE Rebel "pet" that equates to an AT-ST?
Follow this example, and find the best answer:
Take 1 Rebel, and 1 Imperial. Give them equal skills, both in terms of player skill and character skill. Grant them each 1 faction "pet," the Imperial with 1 AT-ST, and the Rebel with 1 of the "strongest" faction pets availible to him. Make the characters and the people playing them equal, only differentiated by thier respective factions and "pets".
Who wins a 1 on 1 fight? Why?
Oh, and no there is not 1 rebel pet that equates to an AT-ST nor should there be.
Daak_Gelrin wrote:
The Imperial BECAUSE that is exactly how the galaxy is supposed to be in this time period. The rebels never ever desired to stand toe to toe with imperial ground forces. They did the smart thing and fought a delaying action to cover a full scale withdraw. A few of them would bravely fight their hardest to SLOW imperial ground forces so the rest could escape to keep the rebellion alive and to make it grow into something that will EVENTUALLY be able to topple the Imps. You say it's not fair, well here's a newsflash for you... it isn't supposed to be fair to the rebel alliance yet. You guys will get your day in the sun at a later time, for now, just enjoy being the rebels you chose to be when you joined a faction. You guys are supposed to rely on teamwork and heroic planning to take down the Imperial juggernaught war machine. You SHOULD fear open combat in even numbers with imperials. THAT is the point. THAT is how Mr. Lucas portrayed HIS wonderful imagination on film. The story of the rebellion is one of wits, bravery, and heroic deeds overcoming impossible odds.
Soooo... What you're saying is that the game is imbalanced?
Notice I use the term, game. There is an undeniable chessboard here, with an unmistakable White and Black. People want to win. That is, of course, the object of any game. No one plays to loose. And what you are saying is, just because the "story" says so, we are screwed, and should loose?
Uhm... No. Along with Mr. Lucas's great imagination, there's also a great intellect. And what likely drove either him, SOE, or both to make this game is to attract people. Now, how many people do you think would play this game if it were meant to be one-sided?
I know what you're gonna say, and what you've already said, "we will have our day in the sun." I'm sure Mr. Lucas knows that most aren't willing to wait that long, esp. when other MMORPGs have won awards that SWG was left out of (anyone else see SpikeTV's VGA?). If this GAME became "Imperial Wars Galaxies," I'm sure alot of his clients and investors would swiftly drop out. You aren't asking for your AT-ST's to be restored to how they were, you are asking for supremacy. But I suppose that goes along with all you Imperials, doesn't it. Serendipitous, aint it? How the paradigms for the Imperials in the SW moves has spilled over onto this game, and how perfectly they've fanned out over the masses of players...
Only, this is a game made for people of all walks of life, and within a nation of equality, 'fairness', commercial know-how and of acapitalistic nature. So long as people who choose to be Rebels, as well as myself, contribute thier $15 a month, we will have an abiding say in the works. "Future plans" don't work when there is competition. We, just like Imperials, want results NOW. And I doubtmany will wait for the tides to turn. Those that do choose to wait will simply do what I do: Go covert, stay that way, and bore the crap out of you.
You said it yourself: Imperials have the advantage. And you're really letting your imagination slip if you can even start to entertain the idea that it is something to be tolerated for long. This "nerf," as you put it, is just an example of this taking place right now. Balance will forever reign suprime, no matter how much you complain about it.
Oh, and since we're on the subject and having the knowledge that Imperials have an advantage, and should be winning...
I don't know about your server, but in mine, Rebels won the last act, and are winning the next. In fact, the Devs have had to attract people into being Imperial because no one wants to play under such a paradigm!
But, Imperials have the advantage, so it must be blind luck...
I think not!
You may have the static advantage, but we have the pliable know-how and skill Unfortunately for you, your STATIC advantage can be nerfed, our skill cannot.
tehehe
XanEldarie wrote:
Get over it. You all abused your privilege of owning and operating an AT-ST. Now, that's being ripped away from you, and like any unruly child, you're just kicking and screaming.
You should have seen this coming, and not used your AT-ST's in force caves. It was S-T-U-P-I-D of you. You can only blame this on yourselves.
I never went to force caves with mine you tiny brained wiper of other peoples bottoms! I am not kicking and screaming and I never abused my privilege!
The EMPIRE is supposed to have an advantage over rebels, HOWEVER we do not!
I blame nobody except for the immature rebel players (like you) who feel they should be able to stand toe to toe with an imperial during the height of Imperial power! Get over yourself XanEldarie, you are supposed to be a DIRTBAG rebel, you chose to be that, if you couldn't handle the heat you should have resigned! You shouldn't have joined the "nerf the Imps so we can win" bandwagon little girls.
Until your last post I thought you were an adult and that we could have a constructive discussion about the changes. Now I see you are probably a college student who reads too many books and thinks he's a new age poet with more wisdom than anyone. Let me tell you something kid, there IS a difference between knowledge and wisdom, and right now you've displayed some of the first and none of the latter.
There should be an imbalance right now if this game is to remain loyal to the star wars universe. Which it's supposed to be. If you want a watered down totally fair and balanced game, go play somewhere else, because that wouldn't be star wars. Imps are SUPPOSED to be strong right now, rebels are supposed to be mobile and light. Someday we IMPS will be the ones who will be on the run, that's when the AT-ST's should have been nerfed, maybe to simulate lack of spare parts or just worn down equipment.
This game would be so much more fun if Rebels like you would just relax and enjoy playing as rebel freedom fighters (underdogs)instead of popping your binkies out everytime you get killed and throwing a tantrum.
sure some Imps may have abused their AT-ST rights, but you'll find that number to be fewer than the total group of owners. Most of us used them for protection in the wild and to lay the smackdown on rebel scum that dared show their true colors!
Either way XanEldarie, go ahead and retort away, you've already proven yourself good a warping others quotes to fit your needs. I won't respond to the likes of you anymore.
You know regardless of how much the nerfing of an AT ST SUCKS! there is one underlying point that needs to be maid.
The Devs of SWG are NOT star wars fans. They want SWG to be a god **edit** nintendo game. Not the true to SWG roleplaying game that its soposed to be.
Yeah an AT ST that can kill anyone sucks for rebels...but guess what? YOUR A GOD **edit** REBEL! Its just prior to the middle of the civil war. At this point in the REAL star wars universe YOU REBELS ARE LOOSING THE WAR! Things are not soposed to be fair and balanced...they are soposed to be what they are. And if being a rebel means life sucks and any noob with an AT ST can kill you SO BE IT...DONT BE A REBEL! Or be a rebel and understand that you are indeed fighting an all uphill battle.
And to the Devs...I HATE U. You have destroyed 300,000 + members of this games perception of the real SW universe. Just to name a few rediclous ideas that make me want to kick you all squarly in the balls
1. Someone running around with not one but THREE PET RANCORS?!?!?!?
2. Teri Kars....or what ever your magical kung fu that apparently can stand up to a blaster is INSAINE!
3. WHERE IN THE REAL SW ARE FLAME THROWERS?!?!?!?
I wont go into more...but this game is a joke. Its a sham and George Lucas should be ASHAMED to have his dream associated with you people. I hope you all loose your jobs and starve in the street. DEVS SUCK!
One more thing: I AM in college, and I'm taking quite a few multimedia courses. So pay attention now, someday I might be shaking hands with Thunderheart on my first day of work
Daak_Gelrin wrote:
I never went to force caves with mine you tiny brained wiper of other peoples bottoms! I am not kicking and screaming and I never abused my privilege! ("I never abused! I never kicked the dog! It wasn't me, mommy!" sounds like kicking and screaming to me)
The EMPIRE is supposed to have an advantage over rebels, HOWEVER we do not! (You say you don't have an advantage, though you've proven that you in fact do.)
I blame nobody except for the immature rebel players (like you) who feel they should be able to stand toe to toe with an imperial during the height of Imperial power! (once again I feel I must explain to you that this game is based on profit, and you're not doing to well to make sure the game has enough customers to give you competition) Get over yourself XanEldarie, you are supposed to be a DIRTBAGrebel (are you saying all Rebels are dirtbags? Slander, anyone? This guy is full of it, on many levels), you chose to be that, if you couldn't handle the heat you should have resigned! You shouldn't have joined the "nerf the Imps so we can win" bandwagon little girls. (Anyone who considers them "nerfs" has no foresight, and should have thier nose buried in thier own mess)
Until your last post I thought you were an adult and that we could have a constructive discussion about the changes. Now I see you are probably a college student who reads too many books (and you're obviously a child that doesn't read enough. Beat up an nerds lately? FYI, our friend Mr. Lucas is a nerd that writes too many books, shmuck) and thinks he's a new age poet with more wisdom than anyone. Let me tell you something kid, there IS a difference between knowledge and wisdom, and right now you've displayed some of the first and none of the latter. (and you've neither)
There should be an imbalance right now if this game is to remain loyal to the star wars universe. Which it's supposed to be.(who said? or is this your overused assumption?)If you want a watered down totally fair and balanced game, go play somewhere else, because that wouldn't be star wars. Imps are SUPPOSED to be strong right now, (really. So why are we winning, and what happens when we keep winning?) rebels are supposed to be mobile and light. Someday we IMPS will be the ones who will be on the run, that's when the AT-ST's should have been nerfed, maybe to simulate lack of spare parts or just worn down equipment.(One of this game's selling points isits DYNAMIC world. Nothing is written in stone; and unfortunately, that leads to cheesy assumptions such as your's)
This game would be so much more fun if Rebels like you would just relax and enjoy playing as rebel freedom fighters (underdogs)instead of popping your binkies out everytime you get killed and throwing a tantrum. (isn't the entire way of a Rebel someone that fights against people with/and views like you and your's? I'd say I'm doing a great job as a Rebel.)
sure some Imps may have abused their AT-ST rights, but you'll find that number to be fewer than the total group of owners. Most of us used them for protection in the wild and to lay the smackdown on rebel scum that dared show their true colors! (yyyeah. I'll just ignore this paragraph because it ends idiotically)
Either way XanEldarie, go ahead and retort away, you've already proven yourself good a warping others quotes to fit your needs. I won't respond to the likes of you anymore. (you can't say anything, because you know you can't fight the inevitable)
arillus wrote:
You know regardless of how much the nerfing of an AT ST SUCKS! there is one underlying point that needs to be maid.
The Devs of SWG are NOT star wars fans. They want SWG to be a god **edit** nintendo game. Not the true to SWG roleplaying game that its soposed to be.
Yeah an AT ST that can kill anyone sucks for rebels...but guess what? YOUR A GOD **edit** REBEL! Its just prior to the middle of the civil war. At this point in the REAL star wars universe YOU REBELS ARE LOOSING THE WAR! Things are not soposed to be fair and balanced...they are soposed to be what they are. And if being a rebel means life sucks and any noob with an AT ST can kill you SO BE IT...DONT BE A REBEL! Or be a rebel and understand that you are indeed fighting an all uphill battle.
And to the Devs...I HATE U. You have destroyed 300,000 + members of this games perception of the real SW universe. Just to name a few rediclous ideas that make me want to kick you all squarly in the balls
1. Someone running around with not one but THREE PET RANCORS?!?!?!?
2. Teri Kars....or what ever your magical kung fu that apparently can stand up to a blaster is INSAINE!
3. WHERE IN THE REAL SW ARE FLAME THROWERS?!?!?!?
I wont go into more...but this game is a joke. Its a sham and George Lucas should be ASHAMED to have his dream associated with you people. I hope you all loose your jobs and starve in the street. DEVS SUCK!
Shut up. Leave this board to more intelligible people.
But, picking through your psychobabble, I'd agree with you on one point, and the point made by a few other people: I wish there was a way to remove the "Star Wars" name from this game. But there isn't, because if they did, you would all be screaming "Poser".
The name only shows you that the people that made StarWars are also the people developing this game in its footsteps. That DOES NOT MEAN it has to follow the storyline, and it DOES NOT MEAN it has to make sense.
If it did, please, let me kill Darth Vader, because the dude just stands there and does nothing. I'd be suprised if he attacked once in a while.
Why can't this be another path in the story?? I assume none of you have ever read a multiple-ending book.
IMAGINATION!! PLEASE!! THINK ABOUT THE VASTNESS IN SUCH A UNIVERSE!
The pages are blank and the story yet to be written.