Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-10: Combat Roles; Pistoleer
IMO there arefour basic parts to pistoleer, three things that would give it what it needed
Speed: Pistoleers should be faster -faster than anyone.Everyone has seen the wild westfilms where you seepeople hitting target after target, dead on, faster than you can blink. Thats really what pistols are all about.
Movement: To put it simply, the way I see it is that prone is for riflemen hiding in the bushes, kneel is for carbiners taking cover behind a wall or tree, & standing is for pistoleers. All of pistoleers accuracy should be accuracy bonuses for standing & moving. I dont see how kneeling down would actually benefit pistol accuracy because we dont need to support the cumbersome weapons of other ranged proffessions. Only giving bonuses to standing & moving would encourage the style of fighting that RL pistoleers would use.
Duel Pistols: We have two hands! Why let one go lame? I think this would be the coolest addition to the gunfighter proffession.
Range: Its gotta be short. Under 32m it should better otherranged proffessions like rifleman & carbineerbutabove that it should really suck. Cities & Indoor places likeCantinas should be the home turf of pistols, where as out in the wilderness we'd find that we're out of our league.
"What unique abilities?
I agree with a previous statement by another person on this topic, they should be able to keep a weapon holstered draw it, fire it and put it back away in the blink of an eye. Definitly should be able to hit multiple targets with a single shot (simulating several shots to many targets with blinding speed)"
I forget who psted this, but I agree fully. Also, I think the Dead eye proto type should effect pistoleers more, considering one of the titles is "Dead eye" 
Anyway, I hope these exelently staed ideas come in to effect soon.
Thunderheart wrote:
What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?
Spee Speed Speed Pistoleers are runing, jumping, dodging and diving semi-melee-fighters. They ar shooting very fast from very close range but are not very accurate.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed Speed Speed. They re runing fast, dodging fast and firing fast, hoping that 1 bullet will hit.
What offensive abilities?
Speed Speed Speed Since they a firing "in areas" more than aiming the enemies eye, they should ve areaeffects of damage to simulate there speed. They should be most effective in closer ranges. No need for Health-only-Specials, because pistoleers dont aim 3 sec to hit a eye but firing 3 shots a sec to hit anything.
What defensive abilities?
Speed Speed Speed Dodging Speed, Runing Speed, Specials Speed
What unique abilities?
Speed Speed Speed Dual Wield is a "MUST"
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Speed Speed Speed Pistoleers are non-selective combatants, firing on all and everything, that looks like an enemy. So pistoleers are doing less dps on a single target, but great dps on entire groups.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Speed Speed Speed Pistoleers should becloserange-masscombat-damagedealers.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Speed Speed Speed Pistoleers are a teams damagedealers, when fighting more than 1 or 2 targets at once. They should auto-recue othernon-tank-classes, because of theie area spaming special attacks andfast reacting time. So the could be kiters as well as crowedcontrolers
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Speed Speed Speed Pistoleers should be the close-ranged-behemoth-class in dunegon/urban/deathstar-scenarios when fighting vs tons of low-midlevel mobs closerange but beeing much less effective against single highlev Monsters. They should be able to cause great confusion under enemies.
What defines the Pistoleer role in combat?
1. Speed
Compaired to a Carbine (I see them firing not single blast but bursts) or a Rifle, the Aim & Fire sequence of a pistol is way quicker. Rangewise you mostly dont even have to aim.
2. Mobility
I would compaire a carbine to a (stationary) Machine Gun or at least to a weapon you have to carefully aim.
That issue doesn't even come up with rifles.
3. Ease of Handling the Weapon
As stated above, its quicker to aim & fire a pistol then any other weapon so that should reflect in the Fighting style as well.
While a Pistoleer may not be able to take out a single target as quickly as the other ranged classes, he should be able to react to greater numbers with ease.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Hit & Run Tactics (using the primary advantages as above) with the ability to engage several targets at once, even if surrounded by enemies.
What offensive abilities?
The ability to take out the Health Pools as it is today is perfectly acceptable, IF the coresponding specials are adapted to it or fixed.
Pistols live by speed and short range accuracy. This concept is implemented quite well at the moment, with the exception of the Republic Blaster which gives the Pistol user a "Sniping" ability.
While we are at changing the combat system, the range model has to be looked at again.
Melee classes have a range up to 20m, Riflemen are ranged up to 64m. As far as I know, the maximum range is limited by the technical aspect of the game so we have to live with 64m max.
Due to this limitation, the ranges have to be adapted and scaled downwards. Orienting at weapon ranges we have today will NOT help there unfortunately.
It would be vital that each weapon has a small window of optimal preformance and is getting more and more penalized sorter / further of that window.
This system is in place now, with the exception of some weapons (Republic Blaster, Spraystick, ...)
It would be important to leave a pistol user some breathing room to stay out of range of heavy weapon specials.
I do not see the necessity for too many stat changing special attacks, but I do consider it unbalancing if other classes that use pistols are capable of doing specials the pistoleer can not. There has to be a way to balance this.
I see it as vital that there are placed more weapons in the Pistoleer tree, hence the one we get is not really a lot, considering the amount of xp / weapon cert compared to the marksman tree.
I see it specially strange that the Novice Bounty Hunter Pistol is far superior then any pistol we ever get.
There has to be more diversity in speed as well as damage type.
HAM cost of special attacks / weapons needs to be adapted due to the fact that quick weapons are at a severe disadvantage compared to the slower counterparts at the moment.
What defensive abilities?
While operation dangerously close to melee classes, the Pistoleer has to be able to defend against their special attacks.
The key concept of evasion is very nice placed there, suiting the "light" damage dealer perfectly.
The "Dev. vs." that are in place at the moment are nicely balanced in the existing combat model and I hope to see this balance in the new model as well.
Specially the high Knockdown resist is important to a class based on mobility and speed this much.
What unique abilities?
At the moment the Pistoleer lacks any unique abilities except for the great defense.
I do not see dual wielding a unique ability hence the usefullness is to limited, even though it would be a very nice feature indeed.
I would like to see the pistoleer with limited crowd controll features, even if it would have to be a form of "kiting" (running from a mob while dealing damage and not taking any) or slowing down a mob.
Or the Pistoleer will be more of a NPC Tank, drawing fire with the ability to evade most of it.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Ability to deal with more then one opponent at once.
Ability to draw fire to give melee / ranged classes breathing room.
Ability to serve as backup tank if desperate need arises.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Need for Weaponsmith / Armorsmith are common to all classes engaging in combat.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Inability to deal with Armor: Medium / Heavy targets quickly.
Lack of "Range keeping" skills (ranged KD, conceal shot) creates the need for kiting or a tank to hunt efficiently.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Their ability to deal with groups of opponents would make them helpful on factional missions or PvP.
While drawing fire and keeping the enemy busy / healing, the would give the other classes time to move in position or attack more effectively.
P.S.: I am not a native speaker and I fear I am getting out of practice so if you finde some missspelling, you may keep it :-)
Subutai wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?
Spee Speed Speed Pistoleers are runing, jumping, dodging and diving semi-melee-fighters. They ar shooting very fast from very close range but are not very accurate.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed Speed Speed. They re runing fast, dodging fast and firing fast, hoping that 1 bullet will hit.
Um... no offence, but how exactly can you miss so much from so close?
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines thePistoleerrole in combat? most easily killed profession do to limited damage and speed not nearly fast enough (JFK assassination 3 shots in 7 seconds with that rifle NO WAY heavy Sniper rifles are SLOW bolt action weapons where as a pistol is usually semi auto and yes there are full auto pistols available usually of soviet designso there is no way a master rifleman with a t21 should beable to get as many accurate shots with it as a master pistoleer with a dx2 or fwg5)
What basic combat elements should they possess? agility and speed teh more agile you are the more likely you are to hit your target while it misses you and being that most fatal shootings in the US are under 12 yards this speed and agility combo are a must
What offensive abilities?Deadly at close range and i mean DEADLY even a .22 cal pistol at close range (muzzle on target) will kill while more of the popular calibers do and even more effective job at greater ranges like the .50DE kill range 2oo yardsa pistoleer needs to have a percentage chance of ourrite killing an opponnent based on distance from target weapon used and skill with that weapon a master pistoleer at point bland range should have near 100% chance of anoutright kill witheverything from a cdef to a dx2
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities? hi deflection shots i.e. the ability to shoot around a corner pistoleers are masters of close combat with a ranged weapon if a carbineer or a rifleman takes a fast shot around a corner in a building the pistoleer can determine what angle to bounce his next shot to injure the guy who just shot at him this is more of a counter attack then a straight offensive move
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? close combat support not nessisarily tanking but good firepower added while still beeing close to the action unlike a sniper or Gun On Demand that is a kill shot from a safe and secure distance(like the top of a building 400 yards away (400yards is the distance police snipers are trained to shoot from))
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? city or space vehicle in fighting
These are just some thoughts i dont know how many times as a master pistoleer i got one shoted by a rifleman running away from me at 5m you effectively cant aim a rifle one handed while running (the barrel tends to drag the point of aim down and a leg shot shouldnt outright kill you (though if you take hydrodynamics into account it can and will)
I have no new Ideas what anyone else asnt already said, but:
What unique abilities?
Unique abilities I would like to see, being able to hold 2 Pistols at one time, Providing you master the profession (and they have to be the same weapon *shrug*) hiding from shots round corners… no more seeing people should things through walls too.. thats annoying when trying to get away, you cant shoot them through walls so why should they beable to?
Randonb wrote:
irottwrote in another thread:
TH, you should have added one question to every list....
Are you currently playing this profession, have you at one time played this profession, or have you never been this profession before?
It would give you and everyone else a better idea on who thinks what about what.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?
We are the fastest shooters, fastest movers, and best with the laidies. If it were the old west we'd be the train hijackers, busting in at close range with a pistol in your face and a bullet hitting your headrest before you even know what's happened. We should be the fastest at getaways just in case things go south. We have a lower damage output so we need to be able to save our own hide when in a pinch. We are the "sung" heros that the kids read about because we are always on the front lines in closer range combat than the Snipers and Carbiniers. It's all about guts & glory.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Pistoleers should be fast and flashy: Able to mezmerize our opponent just by the way we remove our gun from it's holster, put a bullet in his chest and neatly place it back into the holster before the stock of his rifle even touches his shoulder. Dual pistols would definitely add to the "cool" factor. We could have a dual pistol diving shot w/ roll to kneeling at the end. Now that's flashy!
What offensive abilities?
Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed, Speed!!! We all know that a dude with a laser rifle and Rifles III from Marksman can deal just as much (if not more) damage as a mid-high level Pistoleer. This concerns me, but not as much as SPEED. We should be speed demons!!! This should be why other professions fear dueling a Pistoleer. As of right now no one fears the Pistoleer because we are considered by the greater populace to be a "support profession". A lower speed cap and improved/fixed specials will greatly help to correct this problem.
What defensive abilities?
We should be the fastest movers in combat. This means that weshould bemasters at dodging various attacks. Since we are on the front lines of ranged attackers we should also be able to have better resists to the various state effects. This is because from being on the front lines we are at risk of getting hit real hard and have learned to take that hit and recover from it. Most people aim for a Pistoleer first because we are closest and easiest to spot.
What unique abilities?
Dual pistols would be a really cool addition to our fighting style. Our Disarming Shot should be a delay effect, as if it knocked the weapon out of our opponent's hand. Also (something that we somewhat already have) is accuracy while moving. We should always be on the move, and be well adept at hitting a moving target. Pistol Whip should have a stun effect. Just think, if you got clocked in the temple with the butt of someone's pistol, you'd be pretty rattled.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
We should be able to really take some hits in group combat. We're up close (not as close as TKA's) but, with Fanshot we get a lot of agro. This is why we have the good dodge stats.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We make a good partner to just about any profession. We should deal decent damage and be able to take the agro away from other professions and still not get killed when doing so.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
At the moment we target Health most of the time. This means that teaming up with a Rifleman (Mind) or Carbinier (Action) would be equally beneficial to both parties. As with most combat professions, having a good medical practitioner around is always a plus. Also, a chef with those wonderful -legal- food buffs is a great companion.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A group of Pistoleers should be able to swarm through a city with guns blazing a mile a minute and get out quick when need be.