Development Cycle Archive

Information:
Jedi visibility is reset to zero only when a bounty hunter
that has a mission on a Jedi kills that Jedi.
Visibility is not reset by random Jedi death.

Message Edited by Tiggs on 10-01-2004 09:49 PM


This statement makes me assume that a jedi does NOT have to clone. If the intent of SOE is that a Jedi SHOULD clone after death by a bh and SHOULD lose MASSIVE quantities of XP, it would be appreciated that that fact be stated.

As it stands, if you are REZZED, and do NOT CLONE, the BH can KILL YOU AGAIN, and AGAIN and you WILL lose MORE xp.


One idea that has been talked about is allowing jedi's to sense when a bh is near, or to provide them a warning message if a BH with a mission on you is within X distance away.

Another concept might be allowing jedi to kill BH's that have a mission on them. Since a BH has first strike, he can kd/dizzy a jedi, and the jedi's in for some problems.

Personally I wouldnt mind loosing 420k xp if i had teh opportunity to kill the bh hunting me. I could get him when he's unbuffed and alone, just like how they hunt most jedi.

Fair is fair i mean, what jedi wouldn't attack a bh and wait for them to strike first...

Or just fix the tef system...

Message Edited by killabyte on 10-04-2004 08:37 AM

Since the reset, my Jedi has not appeared on the terminals - I was prior to the wipe. I check each time I log off with my BH alt. I have avoided all NPCs and unequip my light saber after each mission. I have been attacked while driving by NPCs while wearing my Jedi robe but without my Saber equipped (I kept on driving), and it did not appear to affect my visibility (although it may have incremented it - i'm not sure - would love more detail on the equipping versus already equipped sabers and visiblity and jedi robes and visiblity).

I did not have negative XP so cannot give any info on the Minimum Base.

I'm glad to see the new system in place and find it working as advertised. I also want to state my positive reaction to allowing a Jedi to remain PvE only - albeit very carefully! When the revamp was announced, I was excited about not being forced into PvP. It's not something I enjoy and probably never will. If I never attempt Jedi Knight and stay carefully away from NPCs while wearing/equipping Jedi gear, I can remain PvE only - I'll just buy my crystals from others. I would like to see some way to be removed from the terminals without being killed by a BH. However, I do understand the imersion aspect of that choice - Vader would not have stopped looking for a Jedi until he was dead.

One thing I would like to see is no visibility gained from NPCs that see me with my Saber equipped if I kill them all. My theory here is if I kill them all, how does the word get out? Unless of course your suggesting that Vader can invade their mind and "see" me that way.

All in all, I like the system and feel it works well. The most exciting moment I've ever had in SWG was the other day (prior to the terminal wipe) when a BH sent a exploding droid after me - wow what a rush and big surprise! I got away, but certainly would have hated the XP loss - perhaps a cap of 100k loss or soemthing. It takes me about 1.5 hours to get 100k - that's a big penalty for me since it's about the most I can play on any given day.

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EMC2 wrote:

Since the TEF, Visibility and Bounty systems are still broken, will you PLEASE get the Jedi Correspondent and BH Correspondent set up in a test environment with a Developer who is knowledgeable about these systems and get this fixed once and for all?

As if there wasn't enough hate in the community toward Jedi, you continue to produce "hot patches" on thisSAME issue repeatedly and these other players in their infinite wisdom are punching a counter on publishes focused on Jedi instead of having common sense in realizing it has beenfour "hot patches"in an effort to resolve theSAME game breaking issue introduced through publishes the Jedi community NEVER asked for.

Thanks so much for:

- Adding a NEW bug where we are frozen for upwards of 60 seconds after force healing in multi-player PvP scenarios (5 or more players in combat) and we are unable to do ANYTHING (run away, heal, fight, etc).

- Cranking up the visibility sensitivity to the point where we just log in to get on the terminals.

- Poor server-client synchronization that allows OTHER players to see us with saber and robes even though we unequiped them well before entering the area, and potentially increasing our visibility incorrectly.

- Keeping xp loss at clone for Jedi so they can just be pushed deeper into the xp debt as endless parades of BHs grouped with others can perma-kill the Jedi and not lose the mission and/or TEF.

- Ignoring the TEF system (for the entire game) to the point it is now totally falling apart on the shoulders of Jedi who suffer endless lost xp as a result of this failed design.

- Ignoring the "group" TEF that has been the worst system for PvP since day one, but specific to Jedi, it allows the BH to maintain the mission even after the Jedi receives xp loss by dying to a grouped member with the BH.

- Allowing the 3 incap death to continue as a means of killing Jedi without losing the mission, even at the hands of a BH.

- Cranking up the xp loss while the underlying systems remain bugged to death.

- Ignoring the Jedi Corrspondent as a means of testing these systems before publishing them to live.

BUT MOST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR:

- Publishing hot patches over and over and bringing significant increased hatred toward the Jedi community.

/sarcasm off

We appreciate the focus on trying to resolve these things, but obviously the complexity is significant. The negative impact to the Jedi community is massive and repetitive. The efforts are only resulting in further frustration for everyone in this game as other players feel negelected in their professions, and yet the Jedi still are not receiving any resolution to these issues.

Please get the focus on TESTING (including SonGouki) instead of just publishing hot patch notes with no real substance and confidencein the code.

Message Edited by EMC2 on 10-04-2004 08:46 AM

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Very well said... 5 stars. SOE are the ones griefing Jedi by the system they allow... not the BHs playing the system.

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Eario wrote:

Just want to let all of you hard working devs know that the silent MAJORITY of players not whining on these boards appreaciate your continued updates. The quick fixes are the best way to let the community know you are listening and working to solve issues and for that I thank you.

For the thread hijackers looking for help with their chosen profession you have correspondents to hear your issues.

Jedi are supposed to be freaking hard to play!! If it is really that bad that you need to continually troll these boards and give no positive feedback what so ever then I really think you need to quit and play something else. This is a computer game after all people. Bugs will always exist but I believe we have the best and most involved dev team working for all of us of any game I have ever played.

I look at these boards for good info and 95% is just the most childish whining I have ever read anywhere. Tiggs and TH I wouldn't want your jobs for love or money man, but keep up the good work because I for one enjoy this game (especiallly the POSITIVE community involvement).

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I agree. I'm thankful they are at least trying to fix the bugs that are affecting people so much. I think the weakness is in testing, and the result of persisting bugs is causing the most unrest. Again, hopefully they will stay on top of it until it is fully operational.

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MeciniaLua wrote:

I don't buy that Memnoch, that's just an excuse and an easy out for purposely avoiding bounty hunters. This is a Multiplayer game, the point is your not suppose to be able to buff your toon with another toon of yours, that defeats the purpose of the game....and if you are running both on the same computer at the same time....also violates the EULA........( It is fine to have more than one account, but it clearly states to run them at the same time requires more than one computer. Thus with one computer you'd have to log out of one toon before you could log another on. )

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OMFG, you mean that buy buying several copies of the game, paying 15 x whatever number to SOE would be illegal according to the EULA, damn so me buffing my Scylla main with my alt using the same comp just running 2 clients damn, i guess im gettin banned, i suppose SOE dont want my money.

Not sure if this is 10.4 issue or not, but I strongly oppose this vendor deletion 'feature'.

My vendors are set up as Roleplaying NPCs, they don't really sell anything. They're meant to add flavor to the areas I've decorated, they say witty things (sometimes) and I believe contribute to the atmosphere of SWG. I don't understand why Vendors need to be deleted. They aren't hurting anyone. I've spent the points to get Master Merchant, I've spent creds to put them in outfits. It seems to me that this vendor deletion is just more of the "play the game or the game will punish you" mentality that I see more and more of (ie, Jedi ranking system).

If I pay my monthly subscription, spend the points to get master merchant, I don't see how SOE has the right to take away part of my gaming experience. It doesn't seem right.

while this isn't specifically geared toward 10.4.. as i'm not directly affected by the changes being neither Jedi nor Bh.. nor am i grouped with either for the most part.. this is comment is geared at the entire 10.x series of publishes

new racetracks??

i was under the impression we'd be getting new racetracks with every major publish.. or 1 with every mini-publish.. (impression from the racetrack implementation during publish 9 cycle)

we have had 1 major publish and 3 incrementals with no new tracks?? 8(

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P__Day wrote:

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MeciniaLua wrote:

I don't buy that Memnoch, that's just an excuse and an easy out for purposely avoiding bounty hunters. This is a Multiplayer game, the point is your not suppose to be able to buff your toon with another toon of yours, that defeats the purpose of the game....and if you are running both on the same computer at the same time....also violates the EULA........( It is fine to have more than one account, but it clearly states to run them at the same time requires more than one computer. Thus with one computer you'd have to log out of one toon before you could log another on. )

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OMFG, you mean that buy buying several copies of the game, paying 15 x whatever number to SOE would be illegal according to the EULA, damn so me buffing my Scylla main with my alt using the same comp just running 2 clients damn, i guess im gettin banned, i suppose SOE dont want my money.

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Actually nothing is wrong with SOE and the EULA... they want your money and they don't care how many computers you use.

Check the facts first, it's Mecinia who doesn't know what she's talking about and telling us what the point of a Multiplayer game is.

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Eario wrote:

Just want to let all of you hard working devs know that the silent MAJORITY of players not whining on these boards appreaciate your continued updates. The quick fixes are the best way to let the community know you are listening and working to solve issues and for that I thank you.

For the thread hijackers looking for help with their chosen profession you have correspondents to hear your issues.

Jedi are supposed to be freaking hard to play!! If it is really that bad that you need to continually troll these boards and give no positive feedback what so ever then I really think you need to quit and play something else. This is a computer game after all people. Bugs will always exist but I believe we have the best and most involved dev team working for all of us of any game I have ever played.

I look at these boards for good info and 95% is just the most childish whining I have ever read anywhere. Tiggs and TH I wouldn't want your jobs for love or money man, but keep up the good work because I for one enjoy this game (especiallly the POSITIVE community involvement).

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I'll second every word Eario wrote here.

And I'll add that I am no longer on the terminals either. My -4 million xp was reset to -1 million.

Thank You.

btw - I cannot check the terminals for myself, but I'm trusting 2 guildmates that said they checked for me. Once before I logged in and after 10.4 went live. Then a second time after I shuttled to another planet without having a lightsaber equipped, but I did have on my robe.

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Tiggs wrote:

Information:

Jedi players will gain visibility if the following actions are performed while players or NPCs are near:

• Equipping a lightsaber.
  
• Engaging in combat with a lightsaber.
  
• Using a force power.

Information:

Jedi visibility is reset to zero only when a bounty hunter that has a mission on a Jedi kills that Jedi. Visibility is not reset by random Jedi death.

Message Edited by Tiggs on 10-01-2004 09:49 PM

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2 points for clarification:

1. Regarding Non-creature NPC visibility - In other words, if by killing an NPC you would lose faction, then you would gain visibility too. Is that a better way of looking at it?


2. Regarding visibility reset - Does visibility still decay, or is deathblow from a bounty hunter the only way asstated above?
   

Please forgive me if this is not the correct place to do so, but I have some feedback on Publish 10(.0) that did not become apparent until some time after the release of this publish. Specifically, the XP requirements for Force Sensitive skills are extraordinarily out of line with what I consider a reasonable amount.

Now, I'm aware that there are a good number of players who will not have much trouble finding the time required to kill millions of creatures and convert that XP into Force XP. I am, however, not one of them. I spent two and a half hours yesterday non-stop killing opponents near or at the apparent XP-per-kill cap (I've never gotten experience more than a little over 5000/500 for any single kill). I raised 800k XP in one batch while killing everything between the Science Outpost and the Village, and a further 500k after trading that first batch in before my buffs ran out. All this experience converted to around 40k of Force Sensitive XP.

Of course, I rarely get a three to three and a half hour block to play in. I'm an Australian, on the east side of the country, which means the servers shut down at 9pm every night. After I get home from work and do the necessary daily chores, it will generally be after 6pm, usually closer to 6:30pm, before I can log on. It will then take me anywhere from 30min to an hour to find an actively buffing doctor, and the combat in this game is impossible without buffs, leaving me with one and a half to two hours of XP gathering before the server shuts down.

And then, there's the fact that I do not and am not willing to play each and every night of the week, and that I usually have plans for my weekends. Taken together, this means I can expect to average one to two sessions of gaming each week, or 60k Force Sensitive XP each week. To gain all of the required FS experience will take me 127 weeks, or two and a half years. That, to me, is ridiculous, not to mention very much NOT enjoyable. I lasted about 45 minutes before killing everything in sight became tedious. I shudder to think of the remaining 565 hours of it required.

The Village already gates players to need over four months to qualify for the Padawan trials, why the further gating that will affect more casual gamers such as myself?

If Jedi is only for hardcore power gamers, then so be it. It's already only for PvPers, though I still retain some hope that may change. But this also means that the second character slot is only for hardcore power gamers, which greatly offends me.

So I hope to see, in Publish 10.5, that some sanity has returned and that the FS xp conversion rates will be increased dramatically. Remeber: the Village quests already gate progress!

While we're on those village quests, here's a simple mantra for you to chant: more often does not mean more challenging. Patrolling the village was an interesting quest the first two times, at most. After the twentieth lap, it was dull and painful. Driving across Endor to collect supplies was an interesting quest the first time. The other five trips were, you guessed it, dull and painful. Surely you devs collectively must realise this? Why the continuous monotony?