Development Cycle Archive

WoAH! Hold on TH -

• Reduced the wait time on shuttle ports to 5 minutes (Starports are still 10 minutes).

Guess someone figured out that on most maps it's quicker to get to starport directly than take the shuttle from most player cities.

If you guys aren't going to fix the STARPORT issue-which was brought to a heightened level of awareness when starport schedules were randomized. Then fix the starport schedule and publish it. And make the ship stay in the starport for 9 minutes out of the 10.

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Demongaze wrote:

"Anyway, I know you are on the right side of this battle so I am in no ways arguing against your points. I think you raise very valid points and very cool ideas on how this can be remedied. The problem is that we need a solution NOW... and later they can alter it with these neater ideas."

Yea it's all good, I understand completely with your remarks and agree. I just felt like throwing out some ideas. And I also agree with the "NOW" need for a solution.

"Excellent questions and I hope a Dev will finally answer this!"

I'm a relative noob when it comes to the forums. Do Devs answer questions here or do they just ask questions?

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jamntoast wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

Below are a list of changes made in Publish 8 that will effect the quality of game play:

• Reduced the wait time on shuttle ports to 5 minutes (Starports are still 10 minutes).

Which has had the biggest impact on your game play?

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Please reconsider changing STARport times to five minutes. If I had never read about the change to shuttle times, everything would be fine. Now I get more frustrated by the 9min51sec wait then ever. Please, give your customers what they want, five minute STARport times.

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Now, one poster seemed to see this was the case, and suggested that we lower waits now, and jack them up later. However, he didn't seem to grasp that we can't take things away from players, only give them. Do you see all the shouting about a non-change of starport times? Can you imagine if we were to jack that up to 16 minutes?

Can't take away, only give. This is why we must weigh very carefully what we give the players. Giving them this for starports will impede the player pilot later on. So instead, we are staying with a system that has been in place and working since the start of the game. No change. Nothing is being broken.

---Stootee

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For the past week or so I have been begging/pleading/asking for STARport wait times to be reduced to half of what they are - from 10 minutes down to 5 minutes (just like the Shuttleports that are getting reduced in Publish 8). What may be a misconception on my part - but the very fact that Thunderheart posted a thread in the "In Development" forum asking us about this, should at least imply that they are interested in hearing what we (the players) have to say about such an issue. In my biased opinion, I think 10 minutes is a complete and utter waste of time. The counter-argument is - the wait is immersion, the wait allows spammers to advertise. My argument back is that all that wait gives me is frustration, a much larger ignore list and in no way what-so-ever "immerses" me. Immersion in my opinion is playing the game and enjoying the time I have to play that game. Standing in an empty starport (yes, there is nothing inside a starport - nothing to do at all) next to a bunch of people standing there like drones (just like me) is quite simply put - Boring (with a capital B). So let's look at some of the facts, advantages and disadvantages to this idea.

FACTS

1. Thunderheart started a thread asking the player community how they felt about Space Port times and Space Port routes. In that thread, the player community posted enough times to fill out 52 pages worth of text (as of this writing). The overwhelming support for LOWER STARport times was expressed. Some made opinions on more spaceports to be like Theed, some requested 1-2 minute waits, some requested the 5 minute wait time (which I feel is a great compromise), and still others said for the starport shuttle to remain on the ground for 9 out of the 10 minutes (which is basically just a 1 minute shuttle wait). - It would appear from those votes that the player community had expressed a desire for lower times not only to shuttleports (which is being implemented via Publish 8)but to STARports as well. As for the other question TH posed in that thread was concerning the space routes. I didn't get a chance to read as many of those posts as I would have liked, but it would seem that the vote was pretty split between those who felt it broke immersion and others who just didn't care for the time sinks. Some even suggested keeping the 10 minute starport times if they would have direct-to-direct planetary travel. Again, this all plays back to the one main key voice in that 52 page thread - We, the playing community of SWG, do not care for travel time sinks - regardless of how it's implemented.


2. Could this be a technical issue? A Dev has yet to answer this question, so I would have to assume that the answer is that it is not. Why would I assume such a thing? I'll tell you. They were the ones who started a thread asking us if we wanted lower STARport times. Why would they pose such a question if it was technically not possible? Also, the fact that they are able to lower shuttleport times would only confirm that STARport times could be reduced just as easily.


3. In the 52 page thread - Thunderheart posted that they had come up with a different idea - since we, the playing community, had decided that lower times and direct space routes would break immersion. Before I discuss his idea, I really am curious as to where we, the playing community, offered our voice as such. If I recall from my readings of that thread, I would say we expressed the exact opposite. The larget portion of us want to remove this traveling time sink, regardless of how it is done, we want it done NOW - not later. -Now back to TH's post - he said they had some ideas about involving NPC Smuggler's and such into the equation but that option would not be available until the GCW Publish (which I believe there are 3 publishes ahead of it - the current, then 2 jedi ones). This means we are looking at least 3 months (and most likely more) away before we see any kind of resolution to this very lame time sink. I wouldn't even hesitate to imagine that the Space Expansion might be out before this publish - as that is very possible (as things often change).

BTW - has anyone actually ever seen someone miss a shuttle (in a STARport) and actually /cheer that they missed it so they could be immersed?? The response I have always seen is one of frustration and anguish. Typically if anyone types anything, it's definitely not something that could be quoted here in a public forum. Ok... now onto the Advantages/disadvantages.

ADVANTAGES

1. Time sink removed. Players can now play a game that they love rather than standing next to a ticket droid doing nothing.


2. Players with limited playing time can now get things accomplished rather than spending a better portion of their time wasted by standing around waiting on a ride off their current planet.


3. Power gamers will no longer by the only ones who can enjoy this game, as now those of us who cannot play as much will now be able to participate more - meaning more money, xp for those players.


4. Imagine some of the greatest GCW battles can now be participated by more people - thus, making those battles even more enjoyable. So rather than a select few who are on that planetbeing able to enjoy these battles before they end, more people will be able to participate because they will be able to travel faster and thus make it into the battle. I could only imagine this being a benefit to the GCW.


5. Decreased lag at starports (especially Coronet) since you will not have a huge gathering of 100+ people waiting around for 10 minutes. 5 minutes would still allow for large crows, will still allow for trade commerce, will still allow for social immersion (only it wouldn't be as forced as it is now with 10 minutes).


6. Less traveled to planets might actually be visited for once!

DISADVANTAGES

I'm not really sure there are any disadvantages, but I guess I can try to see the Dev's position on this?

1. Immersion?? - As much as I see this, I still have to question it. How does this break immersion?


2. It really is a technical issue? If so - what is the technical issue??? Why would you ask us and then tell us later it's technically impossible? Just doesn't add up.


3. You want to force us into being social? - Hasn't worked so far - all I see at Starports are people standing around doing nothing - meanwhile, spammers continue to spam... and ignore lists continue to grow larger and larger, while people become more and more frustrated.


4. I can't think of anything else, sorry. I'm really trying to see some disadvantages, but I just cannot see them right now.

The bottom line is - the community has spoken. We want lower STARport times. At the very least, we want an answer to our questions. Not something that is going to happen 3 publishes down the road. We want to know why we must continue to waste time NOW. If it has to do with taxi services or whatever with the SE... then give us the 5 minute wait now... and then change it back when SE comes out. I'm sure if you took a poll on this... you'd find that those same numbers who voted for 5 minute times on the 52 page thread, would still vote that way!

Please Thunderheart... please read and answer. I thank you for your time.

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/sigh, my apologies for the double post. I had typed up the long one and hit SUBMIT - and then it told me I was logged out. So I went back a page so I could copy/paste it (just so I wouldn't lose all my hard work on what I wrote) and I hit SUBMIT again just to see... and I now have 2 posts.

I also apologize for the larger text in my bullet points... I thought small was the default size. My bad. I really didn't want them to stand out like that... just the caption points.

Thank you.

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Sahnd wrote:
The deal is this:

SE=leave starport any time with a player ship. Compare max 5 minute wait for public transport vs. coordinating with a pilot. public transport will likely be much faster, which means less interaction with player pilots.

Now compare 10 minute max vs. player pilot. Now you want to interact with the player pilot. Since this is an MMO, interaction is good.

This is obviously the case, because people complain about 10 minute waits, but won't about 5. Those who don't want to wait can use a player pilot.

Now, one poster seemed to see this was the case, and suggested that we lower waits now, and jack them up later. However, he didn't seem to grasp that we can't take things away from players, only give them. Do you see all the shouting about a non-change of starport times? Can you imagine if we were to jack that up to 16 minutes?

Can't take away, only give. This is why we must weigh very carefully what we give the players. Giving them this for starports will impede the player pilot later on. So instead, we are staying with a system that has been in place and working since the start of the game. No change. Nothing is being broken.

---Stootee

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This is wrong. They take stuff away all the time. Look at the series of combat nerfs, AT-ST nerfs, Vehicle Repairs, DOT Nerfs, Weapon Cert Nerfs (Republic Blaster) etc etc etc. Its a lot easier to have something taken away when you are given an alternative. So lower the waits now, and then design the player pilots / SE such that people will want to use them and be them.

Trying to keep a time sink in the game now to "protect" a player class that has not yet been created is NOT good for this game. Trying to force people to socialize at a time and place where they don't want to does not work. The "immersion" crowd, who I believe is very much a minority based on what I have seen in game and via these posts, can still do their immersion stuff. Go emotein some cantina until your eyes bleed. Its not right to try and force those of us to play according to your play style when we don't want to.

I'm so sick of waiting for a shuttle and watching all the licking, biting, sneezing, begging, dancing, posturing, smack talking bunch of weirdo's who can't do their socializing in real life. I don't play this game to meet new people (though it happens of course) I play it to get away from RL and enjoy something fantastic. Standing at a bus stop and ignoring all the freaks (while very lifelike and immersive) is not something I think I should have to pay for.

Haha...sorry for the rant but I got on a roll and couldn't stop.

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Demongaze wrote:

"BTW - has anyone actually ever seen someone miss a shuttle (in a STARport) and actually /cheer that they missed it so they could be immersed?? "

I don't know if it was you but I do know someone else mentioned this.

I think I'm going to have a macro that makes me "jump" and "cheer" that I missed the ship min a STARport.

You know, just to stand out

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Very good point. I need to update my current macro. I've posted this before but it looks something like this and its running everytime I show up and shuttle is not there.

/say Hello there.

/pause 5

/say Nice weather we are having...don't you think.

/pause 10

/say Do you know where I might be able to find a Commando Trainer?

/pause 5

/say Jeez!...this feel so lifelike....I love waiting for shuttles so I can talk to people just like you.

/pause 5

/jump

/cheer

/say Man...I love waiting for these shuttles....its like going to the mall and riding escalators. Sometimes I travel all over the place just so I can wait some more.

/pause 10

/say You seem like a nice sort, maybe we can get together in the Bestine Cantina sometime and have a drink...why don't you drop me an e-mail

/ui action toolbarSlot00

/ui action toolbarSlot01

Put your ticket in the F1 slot of your toolbar, put this macro in F2, hit the F2 button and got get some Cheetos. I have a variation of this where I type sentences of words using nothing but symbols and the word Sony or SOE interspersed through out it along with wait, shuttle, etc. it looks like this. This is a more direct approach and its fun for others to try and guess what swear words are being blocked that would complete the sentence. Kind of like a Profanity Wheel of Fortune. Vanna, can I buy another excrement word?

/say #*#@ $*$# $$&$# Sony #&*@# #$%#@ and their *#*@# shuttle waits. $##@ SOE.

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Shorym wrote:

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AsterothBlue wrote:

starports should be 5 minutes or less.

The current arguments for 10 minutes dont hold water.

1) immersion - waiting for a shuttle is not immersive. Not even close.

2) space expansion - the arguments I have seen for this are riduculous. People have said that the 10 minute wait will be needed for the space expansion so people will need a reason to buy ships. This is ridiculous. Are you buying the space expansion for a taxi service? As a replacement to the shuttles? Hell no, buying it to have a spaceship. All shuttles could be like theed spaceport and I will still buy a spaceship and use it.

Remove the timesink, let us play, not wait.

SWG = Star Wars Galaxies not Shuttleport Wait Galaxies. Let me get where I want to be. Please.

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Excellent post! Your point on the SE argument is perfect! Very nicely said. I agree with you 110%. Everyone is going to want their own shuttle, just like everyone has their own bike. Those who think otherwise are obviously not playing the same SWG game that the rest of us are.

5 stars to you!!

TH... please read posts like this! Please give us a response.

Haha... SE - The Taxi Service!! /puke

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Shorym wrote:

For the past week or so I have been begging/pleading/asking for STARport wait times to be reduced to half of what they are - from 10 minutes down to 5 minutes (just like the Shuttleports that are getting reduced in Publish 8). What may be a misconception on my part - but the very fact that Thunderheart posted a thread in the "In Development" forum asking us about this, should at least imply that they are interested in hearing what we (the players) have to say about such an issue. In my biased opinion, I think 10 minutes is a complete and utter waste of time. The counter-argument is - the wait is immersion, the wait allows spammers to advertise. My argument back is that all that wait gives me is frustration, a much larger ignore list and in no way what-so-ever "immerses" me. Immersion in my opinion is playing the game and enjoying the time I have to play that game. Standing in an empty starport (yes, there is nothing inside a starport - nothing to do at all) next to a bunch of people standing there like drones (just like me) is quite simply put - Boring (with a capital B). (i cut the rest off as to not piss off anyone)

but i too have made several posts and aggre with everything you wrote

agree 110%

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