Development Cycle Archive

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PuntaSur wrote:
My comments in green/orange:

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Gerath wrote:

On that note, it does appear that too much dev effort has been leaning towards the Jedi players. Using the logic I stated above, this would lead to the appearance that the game is being designed for one group of players (the Jedi). However, this may also simply be an artifact of the fact that in order to start changing things, you have to start somewhere. Since The Force (and by extention all things Jedi) are what set Star Wars apart from other Sci Fi, it seems like a logical place to start to me.

I can't find the post now but I remember Thunderheart or another dev (maybe JustG)making a comment about "why" Jedi were getting revamped at this time instead of the masses of other players. They recognized that this game was being utterly ruined with the "holo-grinding" and needed to make it a priority to bring that to an immediate hault to save the entire game for the majority. In designingthe new path to unlock Jedi and kill holo-grinding, they needed to change the entire Jedi profession since it is now more of an adaptive transition in becoming a Jedi vs the old"unlock and create Jedi" design. So the Jedi profession was NOT prioritized for revamp due to a small percent of "whiners getting their way". The Jedi profession was dragged into the redesign of the overall path of becoming a Jedi to STOP the holo-grinding that was killing this game.

MOST of the current Jedi are disapointed that the Jedi profession was addressed ahead of BHs, Pistoleers, Carbiners, Pikemen, etc., because it drew even more anti-Jedi sentiment. MOST of us still enjoy quality time with our main characters, and it is only a small percentage of village idiots who have given the Jedi profession a bad name from their behavior (no different than the small percentage ofvillage idiots of other professions).

I do feel that the design of Jedi in combat has several flaws. They can block flame throwers and rockets, for one. You would think that a light saber really wouldn't help with that, the flames would go around, and the rocket would just explode when you hit it with your lightsaber. Dodge should be used to avoid this. Perhaps stealth, to just avoid drawing attention to yourself.

Since in a MMOG environment it is impossible for the player behind the keyboard of a Jedi Avatar to actually predict the future and provide an in-game Jedi reflex to another player's avatar using various attacks, it makes sense that the Jedi can block the attacks you describe. It may not exactly be done with the lightsaber as you suggest, but more likely from use of a "force push" or shield as it would be applied in films or books. There are numerous examples in books and film scenes where Jedi deflect a variety of attacks (flame throwers, rockets, etc) using the force.

Also, Jedi power vs combat types seems a bit reversed. Jedi have always been the strongest of the Melee fighters. If you want to go REALLY realistic, this is because a lightsaber can be used to destroy whatever weapon is used against you with a simple parry (one of the most basic moves in actual melee combat). I know this isn't really feasable in this kind of game (imagine lopping the limbs off of a TKA that comes after you), but Jedi should be very powerful in melee. Perhaps a "Disarm" ability for the Jedi, for use in melee range, that is only usable with your lightsaber? Would basically delay the next action of your target, or perhaps you can be more creative in it's design.

Finally, I think Jedi defense vs ranged attacks is a bit overboard. Jedi use their superior speed to dodge, and move up INTO melee.

Regarding melee, I totally agree. Our limitation of melee combat seems unusual given the physical ability of the engery in a lightsaber being able to cut through material used by melee fighters (swords, pikes, sticks, arms, legs, etc). On the other hand, Jedi are exceptional at not only defending against ranged attacks, but in turning the ranged attack back on the attacker with deflection from the saber as well as force use to re-direct missiles (anything flying through the air is a missile in this example). Jedi are trained in mastering telekenises and the use of the lightsaber to defend themselves in the very early stages of training.

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So what you are telling us is that you want to play in god mode. Go play KOTOR or Jedi Academy if you want that.

I have read the literature and understand Jedi are suppose to be great combatants, but for the sake of balance and playability Jedi in Star War Galaxies need to be toned down. Jedi Knight = master level combat profession would be acceptable by me. That way people will not be forced to become a jedi in order to compete in this game.

DEVs we are waiting for a response. Accounts hang in the balance. At least acknowledge that the player base has concerns over the current implementation of the jedi system. No voice from SOE shows that the development team does not care for the concerns or suggestions of its paying customers.

wookgunner wrote:

So what you are telling us is that you want to play in god mode. Go play KOTOR or Jedi Academy if you want that.

---> No. Don't be a troll. Read again carefully. Grow up.

I have read the literature and understand Jedi are suppose to be great combatants, but for the sake of balance and playability Jedi in Star War Galaxies need to be toned down. Jedi Knight = master level combat profession would be acceptable by me. That way people will not be forced to become a jedi in order to compete in this game.

---> Jedi were toned down A LOT in this revamp. Do some research, read some more, stop spamming your mindless and factless blabber and get an understanding of what was done. Jedi are now only slightly better thanany other Elite combat profession, and are easily defeated by defense stacker FOTM templates. Your request has been granted....next subject should be placed into a focused thread unlike this one that is asking for feedback on the hot patch from this morning.

DEVs we are waiting for a response. Accounts hang in the balance. At least acknowledge that the player base has concerns over the current implementation of the jedi system. No voice from SOE shows that the development team does not care for the concerns or suggestions of its paying customers.

---> Yet another example of immaturity. They do care, they are doing everything to improve the game. Grow up and/or leave if you don't have the maturity and patience to see the improvements published.

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Nifo wrote:

Our Pistol skills are now more easily accessible by Master Pistoleers, with the exception of fast blast

Our Carbine skills are now more easily accessible by Master Carbiniers, with the exception of sprayshot

Our LLC skills are now more easily accessible to anyone who wants to be able to clear out a group of NPCs

And your ranged attacks can still be blocked almost a hundred percent of the time by any Jedi you attack.

Odeko Resci

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PuntaSur wrote:

wookgunner wrote:

I have read the literature and understand Jedi are suppose to be great combatants, but for the sake of balance and playability Jedi in Star War Galaxies need to be toned down. Jedi Knight = master level combat profession would be acceptable by me. That way people will not be forced to become a jedi in order to compete in this game.

---> Jedi were toned down A LOT in this revamp. Do some research, read some more, stop spamming your mindless and factless blabber and get an understanding of what was done. Jedi are now only slightly better thanany other Elite combat profession, and are easily defeated by defense stacker FOTM templates.

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HAHAHA ... thats great, I haven't laughed so hard all day. Jedi are far more than slightly better than an elite profession.

Don't even try to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about because I am a Bounty Hunter and have been jedi hunting almost everyday since the patch. Jedi dabblers ( TKA/Fencer jedi) aren't that much stronger than the jedi's were before, but pure jedi are extremely powerful. Of all the jedi I have tracked and attacked, the dabblers died because they relied on their fencer/tk skills to fight me ( and on occason I find them unbuffed) . The pure jedi (only FS skills) have beaten me like a red headed step-child everytime and they weren't even Knight. One jedi we attacked with about 7 elite pvp'ers the jedi was almost taken down but was able to force run to a river and swim away, saberblocking as she did so.

BH skill change seems to work.


What boggles my mind is all the people saying it cheapens mbh, opens it to 'dabblers'.
Ok, so you're telling me if someone's a master BH/master pistoleer, they're a dabbler?
What, praytell, are they dabbling in? Scout? Or is it just that you don't like the pet vision of a single profession that ties all your skillpoints up, barring you from taking any other profession (in part or full), being turned into something just like every other non-jedi profession, where the title (and skills) at the master box might/might not be worthwhile, and you can take other professions to shore up weaknesses or improve strengths?
Aside from bragging rights, what master boxes are 'absolutely worth it' or 'if you're doing the profession at all, they're a must have'? Out of 38, the ones that leap to mind are crafting professions, where the goods only exist at master (or the experimentation points are a must-have), and creature handler (where they've gone through deliberate effort to make 'dabbling' in the CH profession less than rewarding). A friend of mine thinks the rifleman advanced strafe qualifies, I won't argue (of the 27 I've mastered, rifleman isn't one, so I don't have direct experience). All of the other professions I've tried have some refinement at master, at best, or a situationally useful special that can be lived without.
So what makes BH so damned special that it MUST have 'special meaning' to the master box that makes taking any of the trees without mastering the profession a bad thing? Or so special that it must tie up nearly all skills, leaving you mbh-and-little-else, in a game designed around a powercurve that ends at 3.5 professions (where the professions can generally provide synergies if you try)? The argument was always 'we lose all but 33 points, we need more oomph to reflect that, something special that comes from burning all the points'.
You never had that oomph. When you had to spend 227 points for the profession, you had justification in seeking it. Apparently, the devs decided they didn't want to put that much power in a single profession, so they reduced your skillpoints, so you could make up for lack of intrinsic-to-bh power through other professions.
Just. Like. Those. Other. Professions. Who have to make up for intrinsic lacks in their profession through other professions, or just live with any shortfalls and take the professions the player finds fit them best.

BTW: Not even the 5 jedi professions have a 'must have' master box. The closest is master lightsaber, and it's still arguable that it "must have", since a single style + techniques does have significant advantages, and the master box adds .5x damage multipliers to 'ultimate' style special attacks, and refines lightsaber block and toughness. Unlike creature handler, you're not crippled without mastery. Like rifleman, having it makes you more dangerous than not having it, so I'd count it as arguable.

Message Edited by Zenister on 07-14-2003 01:37 PM