Development Cycle Archive

Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion

Kav
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:27 am
#66

BTW you do know we have an entier tree, Underworld, that has NO USE if your not a PVP (COMBAT ) player.


Not a combat class....what a bunch of hooey.






Kav::Master Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."
Kade_Deveron
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:30 am
#67

As I master smuggler, I have to disagree with the following:

"Currently, people don't say, "hey we're going out hunting, lets make sure we have a smuggler". That shortfall is something that needs to be included in the revamp thread."

SWG uses a skillpoint system, not a class system. While its true that smuggler, all by itself, has a limited combat role, MANY players are combining it with pistoleer (or going triple master tka/smuggler/pistoleer for an uber template) for extreme combat might. The specials that smugglers have are some of the best in the game.

True, I dont think anyone is saying "where is our group smuggler", but frankly, the same can be said for riflemen, carbineer, or pure pistoleers. Doctors/Medics are the only specific class that I see groups specifically seeking, as many players have mixed combos of combat skills. Beyond all that, as a Smuggler/mid range pistoleer I find myself VERY welcome in any pve/pvp group.



-----------------------------
Khade Deveron

rufus102
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:31 am
#68


Thunderheart wrote:

rufus102 wrote:

If it's April (or god forbid, May) and things are "Drifting" and simple one paragraph post is all it takes.

Two things:

1. The April date on the combat roles is for a later issues. The HAM balance and weapon balance is in progress. It will happen in many phases. The biggest challenge I have is understanding how long the development of any item will be and the answer is always a best guess.

2. Since its always a best guess, the pitfall is a lot of posts that really just say "men at work". If I make two or three of these, the community gets even more frustrated. My approach is that action speaks louder than words. When things go to In Test, we'll have bigger posts and more to say. Better yet, what we say will be happening and in "in progress".

The reality is that development time takes a lot longer than most players think and its just a fact of life.





That's nice double speak, but the FACT is, that nowhere has anyone posted to complain that you have given an update consisting of "that is still in development. Eta pushed back 1 month". (probably because you have NEVER done it)

Rather, people constantly complain that you say something will (might) happen by a certain time and then time passes without ANYTHING from you.

How about you write down your own proclamation regarding timings, and when they are approaching, give us an update.

Everyone says better to hear something than nothing. Everyone, apparently, except you.



-----------------------------
Bring back Holocron - at least he was HONEST.

This new "communication" is ruining the game.
lorildeh
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:32 am
#69






Thunderheart wrote:









Lady_Outlaw wrote:

TH - What is up with Smuggler not getting a combat profession thread?




It wasnt added in the "Combat Role" profession because its not purely a combat profession.






Well thank god you put out a IC 1: Combat Roles; Scout / Ranger thread.


We all know a Scout and Ranger are pure combat professions.



Smuggler though, with all those pistol moves, unarmed combat,and spices that jack HAM statsand faction point reduction, thats all "spacey" and I cant quite figure out if its Artisan or combat related.






Pistoleer (master) Creature Handler (master)
Commando (0,0,4,0) Smuggler (1,0,1,4) Bounty Hunter (0,0,0,4)
Droid Engineer (master) Bio Engineer (master)
Pets don't grow anymore.
Character Advancement via PvP and the GCW
POLL: Should CH be an elite profession or a side profession?
Kade_Deveron
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:33 am
#70

lol, hit that button a little too fast. BTW, the fact that smuggler isnt a STANDALONE combat profession is totally appropriate. Look at all the things it DOES do.

Generate cash through:
Spice
Slicing for other players
FP Conversion
Sliced missions

Buff through:
Slicing equipment
Spice

Buy faction equipment with terrific discounts

Combine this with a ranged knockdown attack, crowd control, and a powerful finishing shot, and I think this is a GREAT class overall.



-----------------------------
Khade Deveron

Shrendyc
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:35 am
#71

What the hell is all that about? We (SMUGGLERS) are not purely a combat class, yet scout and ranger are?


What are you smoking?? I need pistol and unarmed XP to even qualify for novice, yet I am not a combat class.


I have 2 trees that rely on pistol XP to attain master, yet I am not a combat class.


I have one tree that has 3 out of 4 special attacks going to the pistol, and I am NOT A COMBAT CLASS.


Please just show me where scouts and rangers are more worthy of attention than smugglers!


This entire community has been waiting for the love that has been promised since before I started posting here in October. All along the line, we've been told "next patch", "Next publish", "You're on the top 5 in need of attention". At first, I was understanding, willing to give the benefit of the doubt, hoping that your words of "Next Patch" would come true, at least by Christmas.TheONLY thing that has been done to us is that Feign Death has been "adjusted". Uptothis point, it's all been lies - Every bit of it -and shame on you, and the rest of the developers, for continuing the charade. And to have someone come into the smuggler discussion forum asking "what do we need" when it's been posted more times than Donald Trump has dollar bills is not only an insult, but a true telling of where we stand in your eyes.


Frankly, you've burned up any and all currency you had with me, and until I see result and not more words, I will not believe any of your posts, and will not hesitate to call BS to anything that continues to smell fishy.






"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. "
electricnomad
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:42 am
#72




Kav wrote:

BTW you do know we have an entier tree, Underworld, that has NO USE if your not a PVP (COMBAT ) player.


Not a combat class....what a bunch of hooey.




I could accept that the Devs want to retool the profession, but how about some clues as to what they're thinking of rather than just sidelining us and telling us to wait. We've waited for a long time, and every time, it turns out that the Devs were just buying time and hadn't even figured out how to conceive the profession.


Is all combat going to be stripped from Smuggler and the profession reduced to stealth skillmods? If so, hey, how about some heads up, Thunderheart.


Personally, I'd refer the Devs to this thread:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=45843


There, a few dozen Smugglers swap ideas of what it means to be a Smuggler. While stealth figures most prominently, the idea that Smugglers are "dangerous" is a recurring theme. They need to be able to defend their contraband and get themselves out of tight spots, sometimes violently, and often using the dirtiest, most surprisingtricks available.


Don't turnSmugglers into the Fed Ex Deliveryman.





"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

TygerBlueEyes
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:45 am
#73

TH, dude, smuggler's panic shot,low blowand FD just rock. Plus I have seen it mixed with other combat profession nicely. I hope the Devs never take those skills away fom smuggler.






[My new sig]

I'm out of here! I'll be hunting wabbit, again...
O'los 'Zulis - Flurry
Grave_Droid
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:46 am
#74

two words:


WOOKIEE ARMOR...everything else is fine with me but im tired of dying so many times..ive just invested to much time with my wookiee character to start over (BH 2-2-2-2)...BE clothing is great it lets me live another second...come on!!...away with the overblown stats on with the armor...it can be padded armor i dont mind..anything plz.../beg


=)





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elyp----Marksman 4-0-0-0, Rifleman 4-1-2-2, Medic 0-2-0-0
Kav
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:50 am
#75

I want to be clear as a bell here.


I DO NOT think we are a Pure Combat Class.


I DO feel we are a Combat/Crafter/Service Hybrid class.



But if combat systems are going to see further devleopment, and over 50% of my Professions skills are USELESS if I am notin combat. I dang sure would like to feel like i have a voice to be heard in that development.






Kav::Master Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."
deltabob00
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:54 am
#76






Thunderheart wrote:









Thank you for starting some threads in the In Concept forum... now how about some threads for the other Non-Combattant professions?




I'll say flat out that the devs are not focused on FPS. Thats just not true.


I will be putting up more threads, but im not going to just randomly put up threads so players can discuss issues that arent on the table. If you want to discuss things amongst your peers, there are over 40 forums to discuss them in. The dev cycle forums are to specifically talk to players about things that are being changed.





First of all, pardon my ignorance, but what is "FPS".


Second, I don't think this poster was asking for "random" threads about non-combat profs, but I find it hard to believe that only combat issues are "on the table" right now. If so, I find that very disappointing.





The ferret says, "Dook dook."
ideas
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:02 pm
#77

I want to take the general "combat competence" threads and expand them to include the "non-combat" classes in very broad terms. I have chosen just a few questions from TH's survey that apply to the non-combat types.


ENTERTAINERS


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


They *should* have some sort of distraction ability that makes opponents miss a shot or have generally poorer attack or defense when the entertainer is focused on them. They *should* be able to boost morale of allies in a fight without an 8-minute preparation time.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Obviously they have little chance of surviving a fight with just these skills, but they should be able to provide slow but steady mind heals during a fight, so long as they are protected from attacks and not actively fighting.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Entertainers should be able to heal Mind pool during a fight the way medics heal Health and Action. This might not be instant and high-numbers healing, but perhaps slow and steady refresh while the Entertainer works at it. This would give them a vital combat role like Medics possess.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Entertainers should have a way to target their benefits based on factions. A "Rebels are Morons" dance or "The Emperor is an Evil **edit**" song would help members of one faction without helping others. Even in a cantina they could use these performances to do their part in the GCW.


Image Designers should have the ability to make an Overt person Covert by "changing their identity" --basically, they just help the person disguise themselves so that it's faster or easier to go into hiding. This should reduce the time necessary to go covert, and allow this change to happen away from a recruiter.



ARTISANS


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Material support. Artisans can provide weapon/armor powerups. They *could* have abilities to construct defensive barriers like walls, or to help reduce the wear-and-tear decay on weapons and armor during a fight. Mainly, though, their aid comes before the fight.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


In combat, Artisans have little chance. They provide all the gear that fighters need, and they repair it between fights. They *should* depend more on loot drops from fighters for high-end schematics. This would provide a vital flow of money from artisans to fighter-types. Right now, artisans mostly give their money to each other, because there is nothing besides hides that they need from others. (An artisan who doesn't hunt doesn't get wounds or battle fatigue, and thus doesn't need Medics or Entertainers very often. They need nothing that fighters can give them, and only a few types need hides to make their wares.)


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Artisans should be the most helpless classes in a fight. They provide and repair gear, and need others to fight for them.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Artisans need the ability to produce faction-specific equipment, or set their vendors to sell based on faction or guild. Right now there is little benefit for artisans to pick a side, because there is no game mechanic that allows them to contribute to their faction. At the very least, people should be able to donate money to a faction for faction points, which would provide a valuable money sink and allow artisans to collect faction points just by doing what they are made to do.










So, let me get this straight: To advance my character, I have to give up my current abilities?

Flurry: Ikeya Ibye (Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan, Master Merchant)

IKEYA Grand Mall - Naboo, Moenia - Waypoint 5000 -4000



OuroborosWookiee
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:08 pm
#78

Just snipping a few choice quotes...



Thunderheart wrote:

Currently, people don't say, "hey we're going out hunting, lets make sure we have a smuggler".



I've been on hunts where the only reason any of us survived as long as we did was that we had a pair of smugglers. That said, smugglers are, in my mind, by and large lone gunmen. If they can contribute in groups, great. But I see their main combat role as being individualistic.


It wasnt added in the "Combat Role" profession because its not purely a combat profession.



Forgive the profanity, but scouts & rangers goddamn are?!? Did I get that 2 million pistol xp and unarmed IV by baking bofa treats? Underworld: Pistol xp tree, only useful if you do pvp combat. Dirty Fighting: Those attacks are so incredibly useful it's not even funny. Slicing: I make my guns & armour better than yours, or at the very least make yours better than you bought them. My slicing justification might be something of a stretch, but I doubt any moreso than an argument for the harvesting or camping trees.

You know what? Screw it. I give up, do whatever the hell you want with my profession. If the devs are apparently still as oblivious towards us as they have been since launch, then I just **edit**in' surrender. I'll continue to enjoy smuggler for what it is, anything you do will be considered a bonus. That is, unless you just nerf us some more.

Ouroboros



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