Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion
Thunderheart wrote:
At what point are each class' specific concerns with their current skills being addressed? At what point will you say "good enough" and start adding serious systemsfor generating content (dynamic player effects in the world for example)?
Thats a good question and it differs for each profession - - one that I am working on understanding everyday, but as a priority it gets bumped down the list a bit. I have to spend most of my time focusing on the player issues that are on the table. By the same token, it is something I think about when I look at lists of player issues. As a general rule of thumb, more focus is on the elite professions though. Novice professions are paths to elite professions, though there are some critical issues on the correspondent issue lists and I think they need to be addressed. Things like novice box/master box usefulness (master brawler, medic, entertainer/medic/scout).
Thank you for the reply Thunderheart.
For what it's worth I think it's important that this point comes very soon. Every patch thatcontains more profession fixes than new things to do with the profession results in another month of trying to find something to do.
I appreciate that there are conflicting views on this - and that many people are just the opposite (and get upset that devs are "wasting time" putting in dungeons when profession X still has useless skills). I also appreciate the tightrope between having a balanced game empty of people and a content-rich game with no working classes.
Could I request that another thread be opened regarding In-Concept: Game Content? It is an area that I feel is important to put a lot of focus on sooner rather than later.
Thanks,
Thunderheart wrote:
Agreed. Its something I spoke with San about last night. "Smuggling" really is a spacey kind of profession and doing something on the ground really needs to be thought out.
Currently, people don't say, "hey we're going out hunting, lets make sure we have a smuggler". That shortfall is something that needs to be included in the revamp thread.
I have a quick idea for smugglers that you may want to file away into an idea file somewhere.
Ok, first, to make smugglers have more of a place in a combat or hunting party, give them the ability to disguise their party. For example, say everyone wants to raid Lord Nyax's hideout. The smuggler would go there before anyone else, and because of his underworld skill or his persuasion or whatever, they don't attack him right away. When he kills certain NPC's he would get an additional option to loot their clothing (or uniform). It would be a 1 unit item called "Nyax follower disguise". He could then use that on one of his group to disguise them, so that they could sneak up on any of Nyax's men without being attacked. This would have the most benefit for melee fighters, but may be useful for the entire group. It would allow them to infiltrate the base and plan a "sneak" attack. Essentially they would be "smuggled" in to the hideout.
This idea may be a little rough, but perhaps with a little polishing it could be a diamond.
Well, Of the 2,041,000 pistol XP I need to be a master Smuggler, I have 25,000 left to go. It is good to know that the last three months spent killing every single thing that moved is being used for a class that has No CONCEPT FOR COMBAT!
I still have novice scout. I'll head over there to see how my character can trap his way into combat consideration.
Thanks alot
I guess since we are not combat, we can always fall back on Smuggling stuff. hmmnn... don't have that either
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
this is shown in the combat profession threads. i would definitely like to comment on this, b/c the 'balance' has been taken too far.
It is important to keep things balanced, true, but not through all classes. i have met a dozen hybrids who can whoop a TKA. I have seen TKM's whoop just about everyone. The biggest UNBALANCING in this game is the fact that devs have tried to make each combat class 'match well' with other classes. that is a crock of you know what. a TKM, Fencer, Heavy Swordsman or Pikeman should own any ranged combat class in close quarters. That means BH, Commando (despite having unarmed skills, which should be require Master Brawler anyway, but i digress), Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer and Smuggler. Anything within 7m of a melee class should miss with their ranged weapon 90% of the time when facing a master (nobody's perfect). In balance, as the range increases the weapons should get higher in accuaracy. However, against any master Melee Elite class, this should never get above 50%. Melee is based on action-reaction. Therefore they should always be considered a tougher opponent to hit with a ranged weapon than another ranged profession. The counters should not come in cross classes, but within the same class.. as follows...
Rifleman -vs- Pistoleer
The Pistol has the obvious advantage of a faster weapon here. however, the dmg should be reduced to the point that, with no armour based on a 800 HAM per stat, it takes twice as many shots, of the most powerful of their shots, to incap a rifleman. Why? The rifleman has higher dmg rates and higher reload time making them slower, but deadly accurate from a distance. A rifleman who gets three clean shots should incap any other ranged profession in the game, save one.. the Master Bounty Hunter.
Carbineer
A mid level ranged profession, the Carbineer should stand well against either a Raifleman or a Pistoleer. While a Pistoleer holds the advantage against a Rifleman in close combat, and a Rifleman should never lose to a Pistoleer when combat is initiated more than 30m away, the Carbineer can go toe-to-toe with both professions where tactice will decide who the winner is.
Smuggler
Sumgglers have Pistol experience and can fight with their hands, but even a Master Smuggler should be no match to an Elite Combat profession. This is a curious profession that will get more playability in the space expansion where they can actaully smuggle something. A Smuggler is neither a master in pistol combat, nor unarmed, and should be owned by any Master in any combat profession.
Teras Kasi -vs- Fencer
These should be some truly great fights. Both are quick, agile and require great anticipation/reaction skills. These two pofessions should counter each other. On the other side, against other melee classes, they should be mre suceptable to dmg, but should have high evasion rates, making them nearly impossible to hit by the lumbering 2-h Swordsman, and able to use the Pikeman's skills against him.
Heavy Swordsman -vs- Pikeman
First, Pikeman is still broken. Only in the early stages though. He is too slow, and not agile enough. However, he and the 2-H Swordsman should counter each other. Both hold weapons that are supremely damaging, no matter which side hits you. There should be a lot of blocks and couters here, but neither should be considered a match for a Master Fencer or TKM. They can win those fights, but they will have to use great tactics and focused attacks because they will not/should not hit very often.
Master Bounty Hunter -vs- Master Commando
#1, leave BH alone. Don't make it any easier to achieve. #2, increase the difficulty to become a Master Commando. A Commando should be trained in ALL weapons of combat. That means the prerequisites should be Master Marksman and Master Brawler. This should be the only profession who can counter a Master Bounty Hunter. The BH is skilled not only in all ranged weapons, but with a lightning cannon, and in the arts of camofluage. This means most professions never see him coming. The Commando, however, is trained in all arts of war. This means he should have a heightned sense of awareness, even beyond that of a TKM. In close combat, a Commando should own a BH, who has no brawling skills (yeah, makes no sense to me either). In ranged combat, the BH better have some nice armour because the commando is trained in heavy weapons that do even heavier damage. A Commando would not defeat a melee Elite Master in close combat. Neither would a BH. Both would make pretty quick work of them from 15m or more.
Some classes have definitive counters, others do not. Some are tremendously overpowered considering the lack of combat skill they require to obtain (Smuggler). This much is clear though... The defenses currently set up are bogus because they modified by universal distance. Distance should be the modifier. A ranged opponent should never get more than one shot off against an elite melee at close range. A ranged combatent should not get any defensive mods against state changes being delivered by a melee profession. However, ALL mods should be stackable, and not weapon required. Why? This promotes profession spreads. Hybrid Elites. A Fencer/TKM should be a tremendously formidable foe whether that sowrd is in his hands or not. He should be impossible to knock down with being incapped, and should be supremely confident in a fight against any other non-hybrid melee even if he only has 50 points left on his HAM. By the same token, a Rifleman/Pistoleer should next to impossible to withstand at any distance. This is where your Master BH and Master Commando's balance things out. A commando, with rocket launchers, grenades, and cannons that spew acid and flames do not have to actually HIT their target, just get near them. The whole 'horseshoes and hand-grenades' thing. Close counts. A BH will relatively unspotted by any of the afforementioned profs. Basically, you would need a Ranger to track a BH.
All of that just to say this.. balance should come within the professions, but outside with other professions. A master 2-h sword will NOT beat a master TK. He's too fast, too agile, and let's face it.. the first thing he would do is disarm the sword, or use the swordsmans own strength to run him through with his own weapon.
Don't nerf anyone else, unless it is Commando to increase requirements or Smuggler to remove over-powered combat abilities. Instead, increase powers of other professions and identify them as the equal match, or over-match for the profession people were complaining is over powered. In defensive driving the always teach you to slow down. that is not always the right answer. Sometimes you are required to speed up to find the solution and escape the problem.
Obviously a Padawan Jedi would kick the a$$ over every one of these Masters with these exceptions...
Teras Kasi Master
Master Fencer ---- this guy would know how to WEILD a lightsaber, just not make or repair one. after all, a 'saber' is just a one-handed sword made of energy.
Master Bounty Hunter
As a former smuggler I sympathize with the lack of attention. But I do not think this is the place. Smugglers are unique. Neither combat nor artisan. However I simply to not agree that they belong in a discussion of combat roles.
A smuggler stacks his profession with a combat profession, usually pistoleer. It is those combat skills he brings to combat, not his smuggling skills.
I hope (desperately hope) that there will be a crafter/economy discussion in the near future. Though less glamorous than combat, there are many players (like me) who would like to have the option of playing an economic-strategy game in SWG. If so that is where a discussion of smugglers belongs. Though they are not crafters, smugglers are, for lack of a better word, economic players and come closest to merchants.
I would hope [read beg] that TH give us some hint as to what the future discussions will be. I also believe there should be a thread for discussing and suggesting future development themes.
IntoTheGarbage wrote:A smuggler stacks his profession with a combat profession, usually pistoleer. It is those combat skills he brings to combat, not his smuggling skills.
I beg to differ. As a near-master Pistoleer, the combat specials I use the vast majority of the time are from the Smuggler profession. Low Blow, Panic Shot, Last Ditch.