Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
Kovev
Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:15 am
#729
I could not disagree with the above poster more. Many, if not most, of those who pay the monthly fee want a chance to play a jedi in a MMORPG setting. That should be the most inportant consideration.
The original misteak was turning jedi into a trophy class. That made it a status symbol, and largly attracted the most unjedi like players to the profession. Has jedi been an elite profession, from day one, that was almost impossible to advance through it would have made everyone, or as close as you can get, happy. Allow unlimited jedi in game, make the opening process a fun quest taking about 40 hours to complete solo, and turn the dogs loose to hunt the heck out of us. Put perma death back, fix the BH tracking droids, and it's ballanced and ready to roll.
Nothing in a game should be distastefull, or work like, to prevent most players from doing it. This is a game, and games exist as a form of entertainment, and to make money. Give the players what they want, as described above, and you accomplish both goals. SoE and Lucas Arts rake in the cash, and the vast majority of players are insanely happy. Add to that, new players will like up to subscribe.
I can't think of one reason why this should not be done. I've get to hear one vaild reason. These are griefers, trolls, and jedi haters that will flame, but they can't make a case in opposition.
There was an idea to use badges, after assigning weighted values to them, to unlock the FSCS. you collect XXXX value in badges, and bang, the slot opens. This is so perfect, it blowes me away. Why start at groung zero when the tolls are all in the game already?
That's my 2 creds worth
The original misteak was turning jedi into a trophy class. That made it a status symbol, and largly attracted the most unjedi like players to the profession. Has jedi been an elite profession, from day one, that was almost impossible to advance through it would have made everyone, or as close as you can get, happy. Allow unlimited jedi in game, make the opening process a fun quest taking about 40 hours to complete solo, and turn the dogs loose to hunt the heck out of us. Put perma death back, fix the BH tracking droids, and it's ballanced and ready to roll.
Nothing in a game should be distastefull, or work like, to prevent most players from doing it. This is a game, and games exist as a form of entertainment, and to make money. Give the players what they want, as described above, and you accomplish both goals. SoE and Lucas Arts rake in the cash, and the vast majority of players are insanely happy. Add to that, new players will like up to subscribe.
I can't think of one reason why this should not be done. I've get to hear one vaild reason. These are griefers, trolls, and jedi haters that will flame, but they can't make a case in opposition.
There was an idea to use badges, after assigning weighted values to them, to unlock the FSCS. you collect XXXX value in badges, and bang, the slot opens. This is so perfect, it blowes me away. Why start at groung zero when the tolls are all in the game already?
That's my 2 creds worth
TheDarkTrumpet
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:07 am
#730
Exclarion wrote:Jedi Should not be Cookie Cutters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ok first off, heres an example, before this game came out we where promised that having a dual bladed lightsaber would require more time and energy to be able to weild one, *I imagined it might be a seperate skill tree!!* so that those who really wanted to focus on dual bladed LS could and be unique from others who decided to just use one *or even dual sabers! ^_-. Anyways turns out its just 3 trees we grind up, in the end everyone has the same skills, same styles, well expept for the fact that there are DARK and LIGHT jedi.-------------------------------------------Basically I dont want jedi to be Cookie Cutter------------------------------------------------second off, whats up with choosing to be a Dark jedi? you just decide to be an imperial? Blasphemy I say. It should be quest oriented, I mean if you want to be one you should be allowed to be one, but with some kind of story line. You dont get that "Falling from good to bad" experience....----------------------------------------------------More Story Oriented-----------------------------------------------------------------------Another Point to bring up, not all jedi where only jedi! they had other skills as wellEmperor- PoliticianDarth Maul- Teras Kasi Artist- EUAnakin Skywalker- Droid Engineer =PThat chick with thname a few. Basically Im just saying Jedi Should be given some more liberty to follow the path they choose. Not be Limited to be just e red hair thats pale.. = Bounty Hunterlike every other jedi out there. Its a reward not a curse =D--------------------------------------------------More Variety to jedi!------------------------------------------------------------------------Last but not least the issue with clothing- Jedi should be allowed to wear armor if they want, obi wan would wear the Clone armor etc... However there should be some profesion or maybe even jedi themselves to be capable of making their own Cloaks/capes whatever they will with + to attributes to them just because having those mysterious cloaks makes them stick more with cotninuity-------------------------------------------------Jedi Cloaks + Attributes should be in~------------------------------------------------Well one more thing, please change LightSabers. Giving Kinetic DMG is a JOKE =/---------------------------------------------END TRANSMITION--------------------------------------------------------------
Man, I agree with you 100% on this. Well...most of it anyways. First, I agree totally in that jedi right now are cookie cutter based. One jedi is no different than another jedi - Jedi should be far more dynamic. For quests to become a dark jedi - I agree there, but I also think it should be driven by the tasks one does. For example...lets say a Jedi kills a lot of innocent things (PvE), then their path should slowly turn dark. On the other hand, if a jedi does missions - random missions, but they all yield good results then the path should turn more light. This should be part of the XP grind.
What does this mean? There needs to be two different types of 'jobs' out there people can do...not just faction driven. Lets look at a random job one gets at a mission terminal. "oh my, these things are being pests, lets destroy them". Even though they may be pests to that poster, doesn't mean it's good to go out killing stuff. Reading missions, helping people, etc...all should add into what a Jedi will become.
So...for the Jedi slot - well, the same concept goes here as well. Jedi help people, so should normal people in the game. If one wants to be a jedi, learning the 'way of the force' through helping people is an awesome way to do it. Because everything can be 'decoded' of sorts as far as the formula for being a jedi, having NPCs come to characters after gaining a certain rep would be kinda nice. Become known for helping people, then have people come to you. Helping NPCs, player characters, etc...all should have a 'say' in one becoming a jedi.
Jedi really shouldn't be allowed to wear armor though. This part I disagree with heavily. Even though obi wore clone armor, the majority of the jedi..like darn close to 100% are never seen with armor on. Jedi need to be far more than "the godly character" or something heavy for PvP. Far more role-play should be driven in the Jedi field.
Just my 2-cents
Bishop3560
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:07 am
#731
MY IDEA FOR JEDI QUESTS
A player must talk to multiple NPC's to get all kinds of quest missions. In example retrieving an item, or killing a certain creature. However, this should be in the form of a puzzle.... Also, players will need different proffesions to gain these items or even make them.
In example:
There where the trees grow in a circle on the highest mountain top one does optain the basis of the ancient weapon. The envirement is however dangerous and its mysterious inhabitants are so strong they can tame the wildest of creatures.
In this case someone has to travel to Dathomir, since those inhabitants are Night Sisters.. When the player arrives there he has to search the entire planet to find this spot were trees grow in a circle. This spot randomly spawns. The player can do 2 things to get there.
1) Cruise the whole planet until he finds the place (like with the Nym scavenge hunt).
2) The player does multiple mini-quests.
Lets explain number 2. The player finds an old lady at the starport. Her grandson lost his medicine and no-one can craft it nearby except herself. You are told to travel to a certain spot were you run into nightsisters who were searching for the same medicine as they use it to practise their magic. You kill them and retrieve a leaf of a certain plant to craft the medicine with. You give it to grandma, and she tell you to deliver it to her grandson. When you do so the grandson will send you to person X, person X will tell u to kill a creature. When killed you need to go to person Y. Person Y tells you to find his friend, after that you need to steel an old scroll from a nightsisters camp and after that give it to person Z. Person Z tells u to find a Nightsister who is willing to help him and he translates the scroll which tells about a spot were an old Jedi once lived. You go to the place and find a house with in there a Container. Inside the container is a scroll that marks the place were the circled trees are. When you use the scroll it will **edit** up a treasure and spawn a rancor. Get the loot from the container and go back to the person who started with (the person who gave you the ridle of the trees in the circle).
The starting person now says u got the basis to start making the weapon. To do so however you need to be an Weaponsmith and ONLY you can craft the weapon-basis. So you start training weaponsmith and eventually reach master weaponsmith which allow you to craft the weapon basis (which will always go well). When it is crafted return to the starting person. He will now tell you that you need the skill of Swordsman to wield the weapon. So you train Master swordman and you can wield it. Now the person tells you to go to an ancient temple were an old creature lurks. The place to find it is were the Darkness itself once was pressent. This could be either Dantooine or Yavin 4. Lets say it is Yavin4 were you need to be but you go to Dantooine. There you speak with a sub-quest person who gives you many quests and sends you to a lot of persons like they did on Dathomir. When U did the last quest there the people are greatfull, thats all. Looks like a wrong quest. So you go to Yavin4, here you do the right quest and you get the coordinates of the temple. Which is also a spawn so no fixed location. You slay the monster which can only be harmed by your special-crafted weapon and you get its bones as reward. You head back to the starting person and he tells you that you need to become armorsmith in order to craft special plating which must be made to enhance the sword. You become armorsmith and you enhance your sword. Now however it is One-handed and you are told to become Master Fencer. You drop Swordsman and train Fencer and talk to the starting person again.
He will now tell you to go to the planet were the sands of time are untouched. Tatooine obviously, but for what? You head there and you do sub-quests leading you to a new person who tells you that the starting person is actually a reincarnated Dark Jedi who is using you to gain ultimate power and destroye the last of the Jedi as well as the Sith. You now help this new person (I'll call him Mister) and he tells you to go to an old santuary on the planet where the geonosians practise their cruel bio-technologies. Since the Geonosian lab is on Yavin 4 there is where you should go.
You go there and do new sub-quests and finaly get told to use your enhanced sword to destroye another creature who has the blood which can make the reincarnated Dark Jedi to die. Your sword scatters at the end leaving it unusable.
You go there by doing more sub-quests and you kill the creature and get his blood. You return to Mister who tells you need to become a Bio-Engineer to make a special tissue which should be used in a weapon. You become bio-engineer and craft the tissue. Now you need to do multiple quests to get an ancient weapon which is either a Pistol or Carbine (random chance). Now you need to become Master Artisan to craft the weapon and you go to Mister and he tells you, that you are close to finding the Dark Jedi. You need to become a Bounty Hunter in order to track him down. When you are Master Bounty Hunter you track down the evil Dark Jedi and you battle him with your ancient pistol/carbine. He is the toughest mob you can imagine and only you can damage him so again you can only solo him.. When he is dead you get the message you unlocked your force sensitive slot.
As a force sensitive you should do quests every time you want to reach master status of a certain rank. So for padawan, (dark) jedi knight and (dark) jedi master.
Also you need to do quests to get your items for a better lightsaber and more force strenght rather then trusting on krayt pearl loot or (double) crystals.
Using this way will let the player experience the fullest game experience. While a player must reach many proffesions he/she cannot simply grind all proffesions together. In stead a player must reach these proffesions when it is told to do so...
Of course this is a short version of how things should be and things should really be random. So one person must be bio-engineer to make the tissue while someone else might need to become doctor in order to use the same blood to make a chemical of it. Yet another example is the sword. Maybe it can also be a sort of fist weapon which later changes into a polearm, or perhaps a polearm which changes into a rifle. The many options would make no jedi path the same. In example the starting person is no dark jedi, in stead you might have to stop a mad scientist who makes a force enhanced rancor or a nightsister who plans to conquer the galaxy. The many options make no quest the same. Of course also subquests as well as other quests should be at random so no-one can make a guide which everyone can follow.
This is my idea....
TheDarkTrumpet
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:13 am
#732
sHiEr wrote:Helloa lot of good ideas i only have two things that concern me1 No proffession changing to unlock not good for server and why do you wnat people to do what they not like.2 Why do alot of people keep saying they dont want to see alot of jedi on servers so make it really hard to unlock. Hows this why dont u make unlocking kinda hard but make the hard part playing your jedi make it hardcore. Make it cost alot of money and require game skill to get high lvl.Ok what iam tyring to say dont keep jedi pop down by only a lucky few being able to try and play jedi but keep the pop down by making jedi darn hard to play, not just like another toon u get to play like your main but a real real hard toon to play that should keep the amount of high lvl jedi on servers down. So basicly you can get that jedi by questing but can u play it. Iam just saying keep jedi population down by making jedi hard not carebear. Let all quest to have chance to play a jedi but can they play the jedi?
Jedi are intended to be rare because in the SW universe, at this time, Jedi are extremely rare. Jedi aren't supposed to be raiding Theed with krayt sliced lightsabers with 92% ubese armor and buffed beyond belief. Even the low level jedi population should be little.
One thing I do agree with you though, leveling a jedi character should be darn near impossible and time consuming. The harder it is, the fewer high level masters there will be.
TheDarkTrumpet
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:19 am
#733
Bishop3560:
Unfortunately, grinding professions really isn't the answer. The reason for this is that it's a waste of time, energy, and money for people to grind a profession, craft something, then drop and regrind. The grinding right now is hurting the economy because everyone is too busy grinding materials that the bazaar is getting extremely low on some of the most simple minerals. This may make mineral suppliers happy, but it still isn't good.
Also, this game needs a heavy dose of 'team play'. What do I mean? I mean more stuff like that cave on yavin (the new one), where people have to work together to destroy something. Too much stuff in this game is 'one person' stuff - needs more team play.
Missions are good, but switching professions to do something specific isn't good. Missions should be tailored more for the individual, and not the individual to a static system.
Unfortunately, grinding professions really isn't the answer. The reason for this is that it's a waste of time, energy, and money for people to grind a profession, craft something, then drop and regrind. The grinding right now is hurting the economy because everyone is too busy grinding materials that the bazaar is getting extremely low on some of the most simple minerals. This may make mineral suppliers happy, but it still isn't good.
Also, this game needs a heavy dose of 'team play'. What do I mean? I mean more stuff like that cave on yavin (the new one), where people have to work together to destroy something. Too much stuff in this game is 'one person' stuff - needs more team play.
Missions are good, but switching professions to do something specific isn't good. Missions should be tailored more for the individual, and not the individual to a static system.
HavelockVetinari
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:41 am
#734
Just a quick note on the metasystem: to keep too many jedi from flooding the servers, the system should allow a certain number of unlocks per month per server and players should compete with each other to unlock. That way nobody is screwed by a hard cap, but the number of jedi will be kept reasonable.
Galaxlerner
Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:07 pm
#735
A big issue that I've seen all these months on the Jedi boards and this thread is should the Jedi quest be achieved through the use of a group or solo.
To me, the group idea is problematic in that all the members of the group will then want to become a Jedi at the end of the quest. This means a small mass of players becoming Jedi all at once. I believe in team play as an element in SWG but in terms of becoming a Jedi I think it should be a solo quest. This makes completing it more difficult.
My solution would be to have NPC's join a player for short periods during the quest. The NPC could be put in different situations to test the players reactions. The dialogue interaction could fine tune the direction the player goes in terms of Light and Dark.
Overall, I think that this quest should be solo only.
RebellionCommando
Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:28 pm
#736
Bishop3560 wrote:
HavelockVetinari wrote:
Just a quick note on the metasystem: to keep too many jedi from flooding the servers, the system should allow a certain number of unlocks per month per server and players should compete with each other to unlock. That way nobody is screwed by a hard cap, but the number of jedi will be kept reasonable.
CERTAINLY NOT a few unlocks per month. You always get the hardcore gamers to beat everyone and do that quest firstto unlock it.
Bishop is right!! Work and school are big things and those of us that do one or the other want a fair shot at it!! I should not be penilized cuz i cant play 25 hours a day, 8 days a week!
RebellionCommando
Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:30 pm
#737
I know this was mentioned but the KOTOR style of jedi was very very good! thats what made it a great game...
Auslese74
Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:42 pm
#738
I think alot of these ideas are great. I just don't want to see it changed to were its a waiting game and the people who put in lots of time are finishing the same time ascasual gamers.
End3m0n1ada
Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:05 pm
#739
Maybe I am just a simple person thinking simple thoughts, but why can't it be easy to start on the Jedi path. We all paid our dues and therefore earned the right to commence on that path - as per box labelling and advertising. What we did not pay for, however, was the right to be Jedi Master. That is earned in game and should be earned the hard way.
There shouldn't really be any Jedi so we are off the track from the original material anyway - make it easy and make it personal. The path to Jedi should centre on the character not the influence and support they can ascertain from social acquantances or guildmates. Entertainers can self-enlighten with a trully epic performance, medic through charitable actions, and brawlers through epic conquests.
The path to Jedi though is notapathof task resolution or conflict in my opinion, but a voyage of self-discovery and you don't necessarily have to like what you find there. When I picture Jedi I don't envisage the deaths of millions of creatures being anyway involved inJedi furthering themselves. I believe it is virtue where a light Jedi's power derives from: honour, charity, loyalty etc. This is why believe Lucas called them Jedi KNIGHTS. The word knight was used to bring in the associated connotations. Simply test these virtues - record their outcome i.e. light or dark - let all enter the path. Then make it difficult and time consuming so you put them off again and the whole galaxy doesn't get inundated with Jedi - only the devoted succeed.
The way I would do it would be say ten quests one presented per week to each character - remember patience is also a virtue young padawan and make it mean something. Test who we are and what we want to become not a set of meaningless numbers and skill attributes.
This is my plea: that is the path to becoming a jedi should be easy to begin and difficult to progress on. It is a personal path that is centred on the characters beliefs and morals etc no their fighting ability, crafting ability etc. It is a voyage of self-discovery and enlightenment not wholescale violence and slaughter. Make it mean something to us, make us think about who we are to become. Do not make it a statistical exercise in extrapolating what professions or skills we require.
Myself I would like to see debate in the coming months not on see this NPC do this say this and you become a jedi but rather I said this to this NPC because that felt right for me thats what my character would do you see he is an imperial but, because he believes in law and order, though now he see the empire as wrong and not stading for these virtues and playing that change was more enjoyable for me than trying to stack my defences to become an invincible fighter. This is a game people play to enjoy or play to win - but play and enjoy don't see it as a chore and don't follow everybody else's signposts, become a jedi your way because being a jedi is about finding you.
Endecroix: Chimaera <How can people think of things to put here ...>
Risc
Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:43 pm
#740
Quest idea:
After finishing the quest, the Jedi character CHOOSES to participate in PvP. This flag might last 2 hours, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year, or forever.
Reasoning, from the Player Manual:
The Star Wars Galaxies™ Player-versus-Player combat system (or PvP) allows players to fight one another within the context of the greater Galactic Civil War. PvP combat is not enabled by default; instead, you must actively choose to participate in the PvP system and make yourself vulnerable to attacks by other players.
Apparently, this does not apply to Jedi characters which have NO choice as to whether they want to engage in PvP.
It is important to recognize some people are not interested in PvP but would still like to play Jedi.
/flame_retardent_suit on
After finishing the quest, the Jedi character CHOOSES to participate in PvP. This flag might last 2 hours, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year, or forever.
Reasoning, from the Player Manual:
The Star Wars Galaxies™ Player-versus-Player combat system (or PvP) allows players to fight one another within the context of the greater Galactic Civil War. PvP combat is not enabled by default; instead, you must actively choose to participate in the PvP system and make yourself vulnerable to attacks by other players.
Apparently, this does not apply to Jedi characters which have NO choice as to whether they want to engage in PvP.
It is important to recognize some people are not interested in PvP but would still like to play Jedi.
/flame_retardent_suit on
Yordin
Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:17 pm
#741
I feel that the Jedi Path should follow the movie line, like so many others who feel that the holocron system has failed and probably have led many to think about leaving SWG. So to keep the movie in mind, I think the best way would be to first find a trainer, master jedi, to set you on the path like Obi Wan did for Luke. After set on the path would be a series of quests that would help you hone in on the force, as Luke did. He trained with lightsabers, built them, trained with Yoda etc. Then after becoming attuned to the force, there could be a final quest that would declare you a jediknight or master, for example Luke confronting his father in Emporer Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, that would complete his training. Just my thoughts.
Yordin