Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 6-6: Imperial Crackdown: Some changes made based on In-Test Feedback
1. Remain a part of the Rebel Alliance, allowing continued participation in the monthly story arcs, should I wish to do so, that is a large portion of the "new" storyline type content.... But leave myself open to attack from Imperials if I just stand around out in the desert and get unlucky with a probe droid landing there and TEF'ing me/turning me overt.
2. I can resign from the Rebels, removing ALL forms of involuntary PvP (which is what this is, pure and simple) but completely missing out on one of the areas the Devs spend a lot of their time on.
Doesn't sound like much of a choice, really.
I'm not even going to be given the option of using only unsliced weapons and armour and never carrying spices or faction equipment, unless I make **ALL** my equipment myself, since it's not always easy to tell the difference between an unsliced, high quality item, and a sliced item that was lower quality.
Twenty Nine pages of replies, many saying that this system still needs work.
Guess I shouldn't moan, at least they've bothered to give us due warning for once... Now where's that faction recruiter?
TalixArchilon wrote:first off as my signature says i'm not imperial, i'm neutral wow none of you can see that can you,
First off, feel free to use periods in your next post; they're free, you know, and help greatly in comprehension when compared to run-on sentences.
Second, what difference does it make whether you're neutral or not? It certainly doesn't make your argument any more valid.
but like i said before if this was the way the game was initially designed then none of this would be going on
Yeah, none of this would be going on now, because the GCW would have been stillborn, and we would have had the argument then. Too few people would have enlisted in the rebellion, because they'd be forced into PvP for using items that imperials could use. And the devs would have quickly reversed that mistake.
So, yeah, we wouldn't be having this argument now. We would have had it then. Good point.
TalixArchilon wrote:ok when did this forum become english class, i'm of sick of all these technicalities
It didn't. And asking someone to use periods isn't a "technicality"; as I said, it's for comprehension. You're trying to prove a point, I'd think you'd want to do everything you can to make it as clear as possible.
and what difference does it make that i'm neutral, it makes a whole lot of difference because i dont have a certain sway or biased in this debate, i am speaking from a impartial position, i even used to be a rebel, and it makes the argument twice as valid because i have no afiliations. You on the other hand are just a rebel, speaking from one perspective on how to skew everything in your direction.
(sigh)
You are prejudiced. Not because you're neutral (now), but because you think that since you're neutral, and I'm rebel, your argument carries more weight and is inherently impartial. That simply isn't true, and does nothing more than show that you dismiss my arguments because I am partial to the rebellion. Being a member of a faction doesn't mean I can't logically argue for or against changes to said faction.
Certainly, you didn't cry out against the Imperials for calling for changes in the original penalties, did you? They were obviously partial and trying to protect the interested of their faction; but that didn't make them wrong. And being neutral doesn't equate impartiality or "rightness"--it just means that you haven't enlisted in one of the factions. But citizens can and often do still take sides; they just have other obligations (or fear) that keep them from fighting for their cause.
And pointing out that you were a rebel, but are no longer, if anything detracts from your argument--it certainly doesn't double it's validity. You joined and subsequently left the faction, one can only assume, because you were unhappy playing a rebel or only joined in the first place for the novelty (or perhaps as an investment, so you could speak out against rebel "whining" in the future and get an automatic doubling of the validity of your future arguments? :wink
. You obviously don't care whether this change leads to others leaving, as your arguments show; you've already been there, done that.Some of us had expected to be in it for the long haul, though, and have every right to take issue with these changes and argue against them without having our arguments dismissed simply because we play characters in the faction.
if this was how the game began i assure you the GCW would have been born just fine screaming and kicking and all, because u know why, people would have been introduced right into the movies the way the movies were, not this crap about being balanced. people would have expected it, but thats not what they got, they got two factions on near equal ground, this is not what people expected. and now that our pacifiers are being removed from our mouths we're not having any of it, u are only trying to change things so u can get by without having to do a **edit** thing, you wanna keep all your nice shiny armor and go solo things by yourself, and that my friend is not right
and if again this is how the game started people would have joined the rebellion for the right reasons. the only reason the amount of rebs vs imps is so different is because the life of a rebel has not been hard at all, peope saw this, realized that it can only get better (because they win the war), and chose the easiest side, which is aparently what you did, only the strongest players should be in the rebellion, the imperials are the ones who should get all the rabble
Then let's keep it even more like the movies, EU, and "real life". Covert rebels should be able to attack overt imperials. Let's make it even more like the movies and EU: there should be few covert Imperials (how many Imperials did you see out of uniform?). And there should be a cap per server on non-human Imperials (quote from ANH: "where are you taking this... thing?" Imperial Officer referring to Chewie; Imperial xenophobia confirmed in EU time and again).
While rebels didn't have technological superiority, they had underground networks and guerilla warfare. The only overt rebel should be on a rebel starship or at a rebel base. They didn't wear uniforms or announce themselves when infiltrating cities or facilities preparing to sabotage Imperial targets. Whole species of nonhumans were outright enslaved by the Empire (e.g., Mon Cal and Wookies), and many others were exploited in other ways. All were viewed as inherently inferior to humans.
How's that for keeping with the movies and EU? I'm sure if things had been introduced like that from the beginning, the Imps would've been ok with it.
That is just as laughable as your argument.
and for the love of god, the fact that you can even say my argument isnt valid, is proposterous, my argument is 100% valid because it deals in only facts, no skew, no perspective. there is no forced PvP, you chose to have slices and spices and thats where you choose PvP there is no force, so stop crying about it, you just want to have the easiest time against those NPCs you fight, god forbid you actually have a difficult time fighting something in this game...
/disagree
Your are skewed, your argument isn't "100% valid", and it deals in half-facts. You can't have your cake and it it too. You want to force covert rebels into PvP because it makes sense and is more Star Warsy? Fine, then let them PvP whenever they want, too. That makes just as much sense, is just as Star Warsy, and is just as valid an argument.
But it would be just as detrimental to gameplay as forcing coverts overt. The majority of players are not PvPers. At one time the Devs acknowledged that, and the most that could happen was a covert getting a TEF. Forcing PvEers into PvP is wrong, and I'm sure all these posts are helping to remind the Devs of that fact.
Mythor wrote:
I'm not even going to be given the option of using only unsliced weapons and armour and never carrying spices or fction equipment
actually you do have the option, dont confuse being lazy (refusing to spend the time to ask someone about their product) with having something imposed on you, haveing faction items gives away your affiliations anyway, (use your head a litte)and spices are illegal, you wanna use it you go right ahead, be ready to pay the consequences...
SioBabble wrote:
They identify a scan point; they hang around to find a rebel forced overt, and they grief.
would it be not griefing if it was just NPCs doing the killing, cause probably the majority of theincidents are going to be PvE battles at scan locations
SmugglerZim wrote:
which is not happening with imperials being better at smuggling than master smugglers.
imperial officers are in no way better than smugglers with the new changes, one smuggler in a full group (whats that 9 people) can effectively smuggle over 70units of contraband per person, which brings a grand total to 630 pieces of contraband that a smuggler can smuggle, if the smuggler himself fails the scan the other people still get a new roll, they can still pass, this is why smugglers lose that 5% chance of passing, because they have a group effect rate on everyone in their group, a high ranking imperial officer can only effectively smuggle 70units of contraband per pass... lets look at the facts people...
TheMDude wrote:
SmugglerZim wrote:
And don't tell me imps would be allowed to break the law, as many people have, it makes no sense. A cop is not allowed to break the law, and neither are officiers in the military. You think the military police would have a problem with busting an officier forhavingcocaine in his back-pocket? Hell no! In the same way, a stormtrooper wouldn't mind busting an officier, they might even berewarded for bringing in brass. Maybe a colonel would get away with it, I'll give you that, but any overt? So a Private who's onlydoing what he's supposed to be doing, fighting rebels, will get away with breaking the law? Give me a break...
Are you comparing America to the Empire?
yes you are comparing your experience of the american judicial system and overlaying it on the imperial system, this however is not a valid argument due to the corruption lvls in the imperial army, a more likely comparisson would be the imperial government and say the columbian government when Salizar was still alive, he had everyone in his pocket paying in cocaine...
i remember all the Imps whining when the original crackdown was laid out...and rightly so. its rediculous to say an evil dictatorship would punish his supports worse than his enemies. as a matter of fact, many govts have a history of drug smuggling and illegal weapons trade and breaking thier own laws and cover ups and scandals etc. who cares? and where did anyone from SOE say that both sides were supposed to be equal or things would be fair? why would i fight against a fair government? im not a carebear OR a PKer. im what i think this game was aimed at, a middle of the road guy. i craft with 1 toon and kill with another. i PvE and PvP and think its fun when they sometimes overlap. i like the starwarsy feel of this crackdown idea and hope its implemented well. 1 thing i DO want is for you Imps to stop lumping all Rebs into the 'whiner' catagory. hell, i even stood up for you when the crackdown was in its first presentation. alot of Rebs feel the way i do and are looking forward to this crackdown at least as much as many of you Imps.
p.s. i dont see this pushing out any Active Rebs or slowing down PvP combat, although it might push out the 24/7 fence-sitters
Hlicalanthe wrote:
Certainly, you didn't cry out against the Imperials for calling for changes in the original penalties, did you? They were obviously partial and trying to protect the interested of their faction; but that didn't make them wrong.
i actually wasnt very involved in the forums until this post so unfortunately i dont really know what the penalties were for imperials before, but depending on how i saw them i would err on the side of reason and debate for logic
And pointing out that you were a rebel, but are no longer, if anything detracts from your argument--it certainly doesn't double it's validity. You joined and subsequently left the faction, one can only assume, because you were unhappy playing a rebel or only joined in the first place for the novelty (or perhaps as an investment, so you could speak out against rebel "whining" in the future and get an automatic doubling of the validity of your future arguments? :wink
i quit the rebeliion when the decay system was implimented because i found myself more times then not the only rebel defending anchorhead in an imperial attack, i became seriously annoyed at this and decided to leave
Some of us had expected to be in it for the long haul, though, and have every right to take issue with these changes and argue against them without having our arguments dismissed simply because we play characters in the faction.
i am in no way dismissing your arguments, however i am saying that they are skewed in one certain direction, and this should always be thought of when people interpret your responses
then let's keep it even more like the movies, EU, and "real life". Covert rebels should be able to attack overt imperials. Let's make it even more like the movies and EU: there should be few covert Imperials (how many Imperials did you see out of uniform?). And there should be a cap per server on non-human Imperials (quote from ANH: "where are you taking this... thing?" Imperial Officer referring to Chewie; Imperial xenophobia confirmed in EU time and again).
While rebels didn't have technological superiority, they had underground networks and guerilla warfare. The only overt rebel should be on a rebel starship or at a rebel base. They didn't wear uniforms or announce themselves when infiltrating cities or facilities preparing to sabotage Imperial targets. Whole species of nonhumans were outright enslaved by the Empire (e.g., Mon Cal and Wookies), and many others were exploited in other ways. All were viewed as inherently inferior to humans.
How's that for keeping with the movies and EU? I'm sure if things had been introduced like that from the beginning, the Imps would've been ok with it.
you know i'm not sure how i feel about these tangental topics, but maybe the imperials would have expected it because it was part of the movies, i however am not concerning myself with another topic at the moment, lets all jump off that bridge when it coes, however it would bring a whole new dimension of gameplay in the fold
Your are skewed, your argument isn't "100% valid", and it deals in half-facts. You can't have your cake and it it too. You want to force covert rebels into PvP because it makes sense and is more Star Warsy? Fine, then let them PvP whenever they want, too. That makes just as much sense, is just as Star Warsy, and is just as valid an argument.
But it would be just as detrimental to gameplay as forcing coverts overt. The majority of players are not PvPers. At one time the Devs acknowledged that, and the most that could happen was a covert getting a TEF. Forcing PvEers into PvP is wrong, and I'm sure all these posts are helping to remind the Devs of that fact.
i'm not against the TEF proposal i think that would be better than turning people overt, however either of these options are not forcing people into PvP, the choice to join PvP already came when again they carried the spice or used the sliced equipt, nothing is being forced on anyone, i've said that a million times why cant grasp that concept, and secondly, i deal in no half-truths, i challenge you to find a time to show me when i used a half-truth
Come on people give us all a break. It's a game and if I'm not mistaken at last count Reb's out numbered the Imps like 5 to 1. Even with the crack-down the Rebs still have a huge advantage, and the Smuggler is still really needed.
As a neut with sliced weapons and armor I want a Master Smuggler in my group all the time so I can travel without too much worry. If an Imp wants to hunt with me that's fine, I just hope he/she is a Smuggler so I don't have to worry about getting caught.
Well that's my 2cr to add to this HUGE thread.
Drogon Ope
DrogonOpe wrote:
Hmm... For the Smugglers that are saying that Imp players will be better at Smuggling than you... Um no. As an Imp you can't smuggle your group-mates gear at all, only your own. So I guess in a very small way the Imp is better but on the whole the Smuggler is better for the whole party.
Come on people give us all a break. It's a game and if I'm not mistaken at last count Reb's out numbered the Imps like 5 to 1. Even with the crack-down the Rebs still have a huge advantage, and the Smuggler is still really needed.
As a neut with sliced weapons and armor I want a Master Smuggler in my group all the time so I can travel without too much worry. If an Imp wants to hunt with me that's fine, I just hope he/she is a Smuggler so I don't have to worry about getting caught.
Well that's my 2cr to add to this HUGE thread.
Drogon Ope
Ok, I understand this, a smuggler can help a group, however, yes or no, who can move goods more effectively? The answer is a high-ranking imperial. A smuggler may be more useful to a group, but the fact is, it's going to be very difficult to find a master smuggler, (hell, it's hard enough now, can you imagine after the patch?)and I believe that more people will find it easier to just become imperials. And let's face it, what's easier, to find a master smuggler every single time you go through a checkpoint, and worry about random spawns in the wilderness, or grind out imp fp for a couple days, and never need to worry aboutcontraband ever again?
This one is easy to know what's going to happen.
1. Imps will camp location where covert will be turned overt. You are guarenteed to be ganked if you goto a city, best guess would be 10 to 1 reb.
2. This will be taken advantage of like crazy to explote and kill peeps just tring to have fun.
3. People purchase things all the time, not knowing if the're sliced or not, of course you have put no way to find out if your equipment is sliced, until you get turned overt infront of 10 overt peeps.
SmugglerZim, that is exactly why SOE current inception of the Imperial Crackdown is so utterly stupid!
As I have said before, Imperials of any rank should not be above the "law". I hate that the DEV's are going this route.
The Imperial Crackdown COULD be so badass, true to SW, and balanced, but not like this!