Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando
other than that FIX HAR!
and, make grenades useful
What defines the Commando role in combat?
Personally, my vision of Commando is a lot different than it is implamented in SWG. Commando's are the proverbial "swiss army knife" of combat... they use all forms of weapons, low damage rapid fire anti-personel rifles, armour-eating "tank buster" and anti-personel weapons that deal out huge amount of damage, but at a slow rate. They use fixed weapon placements to take out armoured transeports. They also harness stealth and strategy to break enemy lines and take out tragets.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
First off, Commando weapons should be broken off into two groups. Anti-Personel and "Anti-tank" weapons. The Anti-Personel weapons would do little damage with default shots, but combined with specials, their rapid fire rate would drop enemies rather quickly. For anti-personel weapons, think the Imperial Repeater Rifle from Dark Forces 2. For the "Anti-tank" or anti-armour weapons, there would be weapons like the rocket launcher, but also rifles line the T-21 that slice thru armour like butter, but have a rather slow fire rate. These weapons would range from Projectile based weapons that use hard projectiles to break thru armour, and energy bases weapons that use high energy blasts to break, mealt, or tear appart armour. Weapons that would fit into this class would be a "new" rifle or two similar to the T-21, and would function as an Anti-armour rifle, or a weapons close to the Concussion Rifle in Dark Forces 2/Jedi Knight: Academy. Asside from two trees that sort out anti-personel and anti-vehicle weapons, there should be a tree that uses combat XP to add terrain nagociation, defenses, and "stealth" (for stealth, think a little bit into riflemen and ranger skills). Then there should be another tree that focuses solely on unarmed combat. Commando's use heavy weapons, and should not be able to deal with close combat with these weapons. With a few unique-to-commando unarmed specials, they should be able to defend themselves in close combat. Commando's heavy weapons should be long range, not short... IMO, that is.
What offensive abilities?
Stealth... Apply stealth in PvP for god sakes. Allow players to hide themselves on Radar and tab-targetting so that they can maybe slip into enemy territory undetected. This should not only be applied in the Commando profession, but in the Rifleman and Ranger professions also. With the ability to hide youself on radar, you would add a whole new element to battle.
What defensive abilities?
Commando's, while having their heavy weapons equipped, shouldn't be able to fight effectively at close range. They should be given unique to them, so that commando's can stand a slight chance against advanced melee professions. Nothing too powerful though, since their specialty should be LONG RANGE anti-personel and anti-vehicle combat. Just give Commandos an unarmed knock down with a high timer on it, and maybe a slightly powerful unarmed attack, so that they can get out of melee range and continue to use their heavy weapons.
What unique abilities?
Commando weapons should be able to strike from long ranges. Their anti-vehicle/anti-armour weapons should be rendered useless at around 25 to 30 meters, but have a max range of about 60-120 meters. The Anti-Personel weapons should be rendered useless at about 10-15 meters, and have an ideal range of about 25-40 meters, and not be able to hit anything past 50 or so meters. Since the Anti-personel weapons would be rapid firing weapons, they get less accurate as you get further away. The Anti-vehicle/Anti-Armour weapons should be accurate at long ranges, able to take out weaknesses in heavily armoured vehicles or personel.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Fixed gun placements. The Commandoshould be able to set these up, but need at least a Master Marksman to help out with the "reloading", setting up, and packing up of the weapon. Think E-Web, or think manned gun turrets. These would take a long time to set up, take two or possibly three people to opperate, and be able to take out just about anything. The weakness would be the time it takes to set up, and the time it takes to take down and move. They would be used mainly as defensive weapons. When you set it up, the Commando would choose the option "man the turret", and another person would choose "assist". The person assisting wouldn't be able to fire at anything.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Use master marksman to help opperate fixed gun placements.
Use armoursmiths and weaponsmiths to get rid of some of the money they have burning a hole in their pocket.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Effective against armoured vehicles/enemies at long range, effective against unarmoured enemies as moderate range. Vulnerable to close range melee attacks.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The "all rounded" combat profession, that has a little bit of everything in it... Stealth (Rifleman, Ranger), Navigation (Scout, Ranger), Master of Anti-Armour/Anti-vehicle weaponry, moderate in rapid rifle "light" anti-personel rifles.
What defines the Commando role in combat?
*** A Commando is defined as, and should be a fast, mobile, infiltration unit. As we stand now, we are more of a front lines artilery unit. When I envision a commando, I frankly see something like the Bounty Hunter class is now, with some key differences pertaining to combat and obviously no investigation skills
. More specifically, a commando is versitile, so my recomendation would be to restructure the class as follows:* INCREASE REQUIREMENTS! This will be a VERY capable class, more so than current BH template, and so, it should have more requirements. I suggest basically incorporating Master Scout requirement OR better yet, 4/4/0/4 in Scout. After all, a Commando is fast (exploration tree), can lay demolitions/mines(trapping 4), and can survive on his own (survival tree). The 4/4/0/4 Scout option leaves 24 skillpoints to "dabble" and may seem like it allows too much, BUT lets not forget that this class is LESS accurate/fast than a Bounty Hunter, just more versitile.
* "Field tactics" tree much like there is now, containing infiltration skills, demolition skills, grenades, and some defense mods against states (this tree would be leveled with combat XP as it is now).
* "Special Heavy Weapons" tree that would group together certifications, modifiers, and specials for special heavy weapons (light lightning, flamethrower, Heavy Acid Rifle) as a whole. Since they are all lumped together as Special Heavy Weapons, there would simply be "Special Heavy Weapons Speed" and "Special Heavy Weapons Accuracy" modifiers. Also, as all SHW have similar speicals, rather than repeating them, there would simply be "SHW Single 1," "SHW Cone 1," etc. Range and speed mods would go up as they do in the BH tree rather than as they do in the commando tree (Accuracy/Speed at 70/60 not 80/45), or maybe something in between (75/50). Obviously, because of the DOT on flamethrower, it still gets a nice big cooldown delay.
* "Advanced Marksmanship" tree that would work on basic ranged weapon skills with commando only weapons (launcher pistol, some kind of carbine, and some kind of rifle) as well as a special for each individually, and one that would apply to all of them (this one would apply some sort of state or knockdown). This will give mods for carbines, pistols and rifles up to say +100 to accuracy and +65 to speed (significantly less than current stock BH template in order to keep other proffesions still be worth taking up instead).
* "Close Quarters Combat" tree that would build off the commando's unarmed training, providing special melee attack that could be done with any certified weapon still equipped, but obviously they would function like TK moves (things like pistolwhips or something some of which might have a chance at applying a state or knockdown). When applicable, these moves will have a damage multiplier to account for the fact that they are blunt force attack with hard objects (if the move is a pistolwhip for example). Also, if one of these moves is very powerful, it will have a high H/A/M cost and delay (like a bum-rush where you have little or no damage, but a good chance at a knockdown).
What basic combat elements should they possess?
*** To sumarize the effect of the new trees, basically the commando will be you straight up soldier, bred, born, and trained for combat. They have infiltration abilities, very well rounded weapon proficiency, and some unarmed skills.
What offensive abilities?
*** Their offensive abilities are limited to primarily anti-infantry/anti-instalation abilities. They are obiously capable of bringing a plethora of individual offensive skills to a fight, and are primarily an offensive class.
What defensive abilities?
*** Though an offensive class, Commandos are well trained and hardened soldiers that can take at least some punishment on the field. They should have at least some level of defense to all states at Master (In my experience it would probably take at least +40 through +50) to be effective). They should also have at least "Ranged Damage Mitigation 3" as they do now as well as maybe Melee Damage Mitigation 1 or 2 at Master.
What unique abilities?
*** As I have described the class, it's uniqueness lies in two fields: Versitility, and infiltration ability. (I STRONGLY suggest a new class requiring Master Moarksmen and Enginerring 4 to take over the TRUE heavy support role).
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
*** This unit has an intrinsic "First Strike" ability vital in any sort of assault, weather it be an instalation or a battlefield.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
*** Aside from the obvious healers, smugglers and artisans, I read at least one post suggesting specific bonuses to Commandos coming from grouping with Squad leaders. I think that this is a great idea, and should be furthered for all classes to further increase the value of Squad Leaders in the field.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
*** Commandos would remain dependant on armorsmiths for good armor since they would be out front, and perhaps there could even be a new form of light armor designed specifically for commandos with less protection than composite armors, but bonuses to infiltration abilities (though equipable by all, the infiltration abilities would only apply to commandos). Weaponsmiths would of course be required for the crafting of grenades and demolitions equipment on a regular basis.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
*** As already stated, Commandos will be the front line shock troops, and the behind the lines operatives. They will be on the front lines, trying to break through and set traps to hinder enemy reinforcement.
As I stated at the top of the post, I realize that this is asking to make a hot dog into Itallian sausage (the yummy, spicy kind they nice old Itallian lady next door use to make /mouthWater), but I just want to make the commando class be what it should be.
I would gladly forfit my commando right now and work back up to it if this was it, and I think a lot of other people would too. However, for those that wouldn't ever dream of pursuing this profession with these requirements, here is my suggestion: Simply take away their commando skills and give them the equivalent XP spent on it back. This way, once they fulfill the new scouting rquirements, they can just go right through and refil all the skill boxes in one shot.
If you've read this far, I extend my deepest thanks and best wishes to you, and to this game. It is my belief that no other MMO out there can match this game's potential, and I am willing to help in any way that I can to bring it closer to that potential.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
A commando is a highly specialised combat profession. Only the most elite soldiers should ever be able to attain such a role.
For example:
From the Star Wars Databank: Storm commandos are specifically trained for anti-Rebel operations, siege-breaking, extractions and sabotage. A unit of storm commandos can range from four to 40 troopers. Typically, one quarter of these are standard commandos, while a second quarter is an assault team trained for vehicle combat and artillery. Another quarter are experts at sabotage, demolitions and stealth, while the last quarter is tech team devoted to keeping gear functioning or jury-rigging makeshift supplies.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
I think the current setup for commando is severly lacking. You master marksman, however most of those skills are not put to use once you are a commando. There should be commando versions of all weapons, and perhaps a more defined commando hand to hand combat system. They should have access to mine and trap-laying abilities (such as a star wars version of a claymore for instance).
What defensive abilities?
As a ranger, I can see a real benefit for commandos to have a pvp and pve conceal. There should be a commando specific camo kit that works against npc and player characters.
What unique abilities?
You have to look at units like the SAS, SEALS, Special Forces etc, for inspiration. They are masters of terrain, combat, engineering, weaponry, explosives and stealth within their scope. This should also apply
commandos can control turrets.
I don't know how it is realistic to implement but I thought it'd be cool to be able to control turrets within balanced gameplay.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCommando role in combat? With all the other combat professions around one must find a special branch for the Commandos. It would fall in the area of Highly damaging weapons and supportive role.
What basic combat elements should they possess? With the other unarmed combat classes I don't realy see the need for Commando to use the Unarmed line. I would rather see us use the Exploration line from the Scout professions. We should have weapons for bothAnti-personal against structures. We have a good selection of weapons, its just a matter of making them all work.
The Flame Thrower in close ranges, the Launcher Pistol in middle range, and Heavy Acid Rifle at long ranges.
What defensive abilities? I can see a trade off here... if we get good offensive capabilites, I can take that we get not so good defensive capabilites. But on the other hand we are a very skill point intense and need defensive capabilites on par with the best. We should have strong defenses against ranged attacks with weaker defense against melee attacks. IRL Commandos rely on stealth and supererior training when deployed. We should get some camoflage abilities, but not as stong as Rifleman.
What unique abilities? Our unique abilites is our Heavy Weapons, the Rocket Launchers etc. Expensive weapons that packs a big punch. Great to knock out armored targets with, but weaker against personal. But they must still be usuable.
Commandos are the elite of the elite in the military. That should reflect in our abilites.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? Our ability to dish out big damage. Not with as surgical precision as a Sniper, but still big damage that damages all health pools to help the other combat classes. We can also take down stationary or heavily armored targets with our big weapons.
How could/should they interact with other professions? Commandos needs Smiths for weapons and armor. Docs/medics for buffs and heals.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? We need brawlers to keep the melee fighters away from us, cause our defense isn't that great.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? We are the main group to destroy armored targets and stationary targets. If there is an AT-ST harrassing a city Commandos are the ones to do the job.
i believe the commando should be the "heavy" ranged support profession. they use heavy ordnance against big targets (vehicles and structures) and machine-gun-like weapons as well as close assault weapons against infantry. they specialize in heavy brutal damage and lack in precision and finesse.
when using heavy ordnance (like rocket launcher and particle beam), the commando has to remain stationary to ensure a reasonable accuracy against the intended targets. those weapons should be extremely inaccurate against small targets to prevent any misuse of those tools. these kind of weapons have a limited amount of shots before they are used up, just like they are right now.
machine-gun weapons should deal considerable amounts of damage with a high rate of fire and limited accuracy. because of the size and recoil of the weapons commandos need to be stationary when employing machine-guns. to prevent any imbalance between machine-guns with basic ranged weapons (ie rifle, carbine and pistol), machine-guns should either have a limited amount of uses - just like heavy ordnance - or they should require expensive ammunition (think about this like weapon power-ups, drag&drop the ammo onto the weapon to load it and it does not fire unless loaded with ammo)
close assault weapons are used at short ranges, deal solid damage and are also reasonably accurate when moving. (i would put the flamer and the acid rifle in this category)
a commando should not have too many special attacks because they already deal solid damage with their arsenal, but area effect attacks should definitely be part of the few specials.
the main role of the commando is dealing heavy damage to single big targets and dealing good damage to several small targets, but they should not be able to do this for an indefinite amount of time.