Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando

Craxus
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:12 pm
#40

Novaspice is right on I agree totally
They would be very deadly if the Squad leader profession was working right.



Colonel Craxus Blade, Imperial Bounty Hunter/Master Carbineer(not so much)

Vorean Blade, Elder Jedi (Yeah my Glow stick is faster than your's)
Pigbrane
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:15 am
#41

What defines the Commando role in combat?

Commando is the Heavy hitter. He may not hit fast, but when he hits, its a big hit. He is not the grunt, he is a support role. He needs a group, he can not take on a strong opponent with out help.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

He should not be in the back, he should be helping the melee, support for both the ranged, and melee classes.

What offensive abilities?

Hits hard, big front end damage. Pro at hitting with Heavy weapons. Can use other weapons, but excells at using the big toys.

What defensive abilities?

Very little. He should not be able to solo the hard stuff. He should need to use support to kill.

What unique abilities?

Heavy weapons, grenades, and destroying Vehicles, and structure.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Makes everyone happy when he is in the group. A commando should be needed when destroying a base. He also should be needed for taking out ATST's.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Needed for taking out Vehicles, bases and heavy vehicles.







IM BACK!!!! MMMMM Sandwhichylicous.....Peebee AndJay




JNeophyte
Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:20 am
#42

What defines Commando in combat?

Commando should be a pure support role -- the tank busters and demolitions experts, NOT the power hitters like Riflemen. One does not fire an AT-4 or a Javelin against a single Iraqi guerilla, one uses an M16A2 assault rifle.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Support functions: demolitions, mine-setting and clearing, anti-tank/vehicle weaponry, etc.

What offensive abilities?

Grenades, demolitions, and so on.

What defensive abilities?

Get rid of the flamer and acid rifle lines, and replace them with support weapons. Why oh why oh why are there no E-WEBs in this game? This would be perfect for the Commando profession -- allow them to set up E-WEB and other heavy weapons emplacements, much as a Musician sets up a nalargon or ommni box. Give Commandos the T-21 light repeating blaster as well, for less concentrated but more mobile support fire.

What unique abilities?

See above.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

The ability to lay down a large volume of fire as well as anti-tank and specialized demolition roles.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Require an assistant to maintain a good rate of fire with the E-WEB, or a loader for rocket launchers and the like.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

As above.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

The support kings, they provide specialized damage and abilities, but have little direct combat abilities against the core combat professions.



Colonel Rathnan Farworlder
Commander, 502nd Stormtrooper Regiment

outstreamer
Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:58 am
#43

What defensive abileties?


I think commandos should be very hard to knockdown with "knockdown specials"


How often do we see a commando in anymedia or realitybeeing knocked down without a good fight??





JediKozel
Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:45 am
#44


To me Commandos was always somebody trained in infiltration and guerrilla tactics. In SWG concept, however, commando is nothing but a heavy weapons specialist. In SWG's reality, commando is the guy waving the flamethrower.My notes are based on the first notion - trained infiltrationist.



What defines theCommando role in combat? Ability to sneak-in "behind enemy lines", and cause a major ruckus, by using either bare hands, explosives, or heavy weapons


What basic combat elements should they possess? ability to use bare hands,variety of weapons, explosives, and stealth tactics


What offensive abilities? should be the only ranged class to be able to take on multiple enemies at ones,and win.


What defensive abilities? stealth. should be able to camouflage within environment, or dissapear in the night/storm/etc.


What unique abilities? engaging multiple enemies, stealh, explosives


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? act as a Spec Ops unit. can either reinforce the group's fire power with weapons/skills, or use stealth and explosives to set up an ambush


How could/should they interact with other professions? needs equipment and heals. Not as good in unarmed orin basic ranged weapons as elite classes. Not as good in stealth/scouting as scouts and rangers. Yet, is a unique class, due to a combination from all basic skills, and a unique skillset.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? should depend on help frommelee fighters in unarmed combat, and assitance from ranged fighters in a blaster-fight.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? Infiltrator and guerilla fighter. Capable of sneaking in behindNPC patrols,setting up ambushes, taking oncouple targets at once, using explosives, and being able to camouflage from other players.







Mokael Openg
Mayor by Day, Fixer by Night, Gunfighter by Need
"Face it, if crime did not pay, there would be very few criminals."
Laughton Lewis Burdock
(from Shadows of The Empire by S. Perry)
Zarkonan
Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:54 am
#45


What defines theCommando role in combat?


Area o



What basic combat elements should they possess?


What offensive abilities?


What defensive abilities?


What unique abilities?


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


How could/should they interact with other professions?


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?




Draxas Draavat, Master Heavy Swordsman, Blademaster, MBrawler
Order of the Silverflame
Starsider

Zedar Xang, Master Commando, Master TKA
Bloodfin
Zarkonan
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:19 am
#46



Currently, I think Commando is more set up as a "Shock Trooper" or "Heavy Trooper" with its flamethrower, acid rifle, and heavy weapons. A true "commando" is more based on demolitions and stealth. However, using the current build I think "Shock Trooper" is more interesting, and my repsonse is based on that theory (so lets change the name from Commando to something else, ehh?)


What defines theCommando role in combat?


"Commando" should be a damage dealer of the highest order, but somewhat fragile. Extremely powerful short range attacks with the flamer and HAR to clear bunkers and buildings; Extremely powerful long range attacks with HW's against hard (armored) targets; grenades for short range state changes.


Area of effect anti-personnel attacks;


Area of effect armor-resistance debuffing


Heavy Weapons anti-armor attacks


What basic combat elements should they possess?


No special state attacks (except for armor debuff and DoT)- pure damage dealers on normal weapons;


Grenades applying AoE state attacks specific to each grenade type


What offensive abilities?


Two main attack weapons:


Keep flamethrower as is, but reduce its long range accuracy beyond 20m with a HUGE penalty


HAR- specials should have an armor de-buff that reduces a targets armor resistance % by a certain amount for a certain period of time, working as a DoT.


What defensive abilities?


None. Commando's role is pure damage dealing.


What unique abilities?


Massive AoE DoTdamage with Flamer but at short range;


Armor de-buff with the HAR;


Status effects with Grenades (dizzy, posture change, root);


Heavy armor penetration with Heavy Weapons


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


A massive damage dealer used to take out large armored targets or many smaller soft targets; grenades for status effects; armor-debuffing with the HAR


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Commandos will be sought after for their ability to deal raw damage through specials and DoT's, as well as reducing armor resistances with acid attacks


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


A very very poor tank- relies on all melee classes to aborb damage


Need riflemen for long range support (HAR and Flamer having short ranges, HW's having limited shots) and Carbineers for aggro control


No med skills so relies on medics/docs/comm for healing and buffing


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Clearing trenches or bunkers with Flamer; Destroying turrets and bunkers and armored vehicles with HW's; Acid attacks to reduce armor benefits; a Shock Trooper that is first in to soften the enemy or standing fast in the rear launching heavy weapons.




Draxas Draavat, Master Heavy Swordsman, Blademaster, MBrawler
Order of the Silverflame
Starsider

Zedar Xang, Master Commando, Master TKA
Bloodfin
Rorenikibi
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:29 am
#47





Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:


What defines theCommando role in combat?


Firepower, Commandos are the clenched fist of military formations. They are the ones who's singular responsibilityit is to stand face to face with an enemy at range and blow him off the battlefield.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Heavy Ordnance, EOD (the ability to disable minefields), Breaching (the ability to bypass or destroy defenses like doors and walls), Demolitions (the ability to destroy a fixed target by means other than melee combat. Placing bombs, wiring explosives and whatnot)


What offensive abilities?


Their currentRanged combatabilities are acceptable, though some additional Hand to hand attacks would be welcome. Commando CQC is NOT a martial art like Teras Kasi, its closer to dirty fighting. Sucker punches that KD, Dizzy or Blind should be a part of their repetiore as a part of the Field Tactics line.


What defensive abilities?


Current Damage Mitigation for ranged is fine, some thought should be put into adding Melee Mitigation in concert with adding some hand to hand abilities. This is more an offensive class, it should be fairly weak on the Defense


What unique abilities?


I think you guys have given them acceptable uniqueness, just round them out a bit more. Some weapon like the Flamethrower or Acid Rifle with AP3 should be considered. LIke a Plasma Cannon or something.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


What they already add, unparalleled offensive firepower.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


As the fist of a formation.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Dependencies on others ought to be for healing, precision fire (sniping, bleeding), status ranged attacks (KD, Dizzy, etc.), and tanking (CH or Melee specialists), enhancement (culinary, chemical, or medical), and obviously crafting of weapons and armor.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


They ought to be asdreaded a sight for a base defender as they are for an ATST commander.






Captain Janu Hull CFA-7
In the event of an emergency, this pilot's ego may be used as a floatation device.


Zarkonan
Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:30 am
#48

As a further note, a true "Commando" would make more sense having prerequisites based on unarmed, pistols, and all of Scout. Stealth and demolitions and specific specials based on pistol and unarmed in the tree would be used, while dropping HAR, flamethrower, and the HW's.



The "Commando" as SWG has set it up, with the Flamer and HAR and HW's, is a Assault Trooper/Shock Trooper/Heavy Trooper type build.





Draxas Draavat, Master Heavy Swordsman, Blademaster, MBrawler
Order of the Silverflame
Starsider

Zedar Xang, Master Commando, Master TKA
Bloodfin
LordSeckmoth
Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:57 am
#49

What defines the Commando role in combat?


This actually should be, what should define our profession in combat, because we currently don’t have any real definition. We are simply a person with a powerful DoT; and that is all. We need to be better defined. More along the lines of:


The Commando profession is a crowd controlling, anti-tank/facility, overall an armor cracking profession. They should have some means of controlling advancing crowds, an E-Web, even if deployed by another profession, would help. We have Heavy Weapons, have them reflect this, the damage needs to be on par with the things they are meant to destroy.


Basically going one on one with a ranged elite, should not be a good idea for us. This is because we are not a fast gunning type of guy. We don’t run and shoot all that well; but if you ARE hit by us, you should feel some large amount of pain. We crack armor like it’s nothing, and we can show this with AP damaging weapons, and lots of them.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Basic combat abilities should fall under weapon usage. Things that their pre-requisites show for; so having Unarmed abilities, as well as having the Ranged tree is Marksman effect the Commando combat bonuses would be something good and basic to start with. Also they have a tree called Field Tactics; this should either be re-named Demolitions and made with said demolitions skills... or give us something that fits the field. *A field camp, or terrain negotiation makes sense here*


What offensive abilities?


Commando needs to be a high damage dealing profession, with crowd control capability, almost like making them an EQ Wizard/Enchanter combo. If a melee catches up with us we’re gonna get smacked pretty good, but we should have escape tactics for this, and we should hit hard but with a decent delay. Although we are Warrior *Ie: Meatshield* too, because we have to be up close and personal using some of our anti-personnel skills, which explains us being a hybrid.


Now as a starting Commando, you should see this damage output, a sort of "WOW!" factor. Now as you progress this damage gets an increase, with the weapons you use, and access to better Heavy Weapons. This keeps you going "WOW!" but now the speed and accuracy get even better. So you can see a definite improvement with all of your abilities.


So essentially, the Commando for offense, needs some way to deal high-end damage, but with the risk of a delay to this. Though this damage should balance with the DPS of all the professions out there. Currently in a 30 second combat time frame the Commando cannot compete with the other professions out there on damage output.


What defensive abilities?


The Commando is required to take up Unarmed 1-4 before they become a Commando; and yet these skills are rarely used again by a Commando. Defensively the Commando needs some form of escape tactic, to get out of Melee range *making their Unarmed requirement make sense* and back to shooting.


Also the Commando is the big burly type of fighter in my eyes. Them and Swordsmen are the two I see as similar, just one ranged, and one up close and personal. A Commando should have some ability to put armor on with less cost, making their toughness make sense. This would help define them.


What unique abilities?


For the Commando only; we need demolitions skills, of some type. Grenades to blow up groups of players at a distance, Det Packs to take out Turrets and AT type vehicles. Destruction of bases should also be our specialty. Those and the only one able to man and use effectively the E-Web blaster cannon.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


The Commando should armor cracking, all around damage dealer. If you need Acid, we have it, cold, done, heat is covered, etc. Also you have a problem with a high HAM with AR3 NPC/Critter we’ll punch through that armor for ya.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


The Commando should rely on some of the other professions for help. They need Weapon and Armorsmith obviously. Doctor and Medics, Entertainers, the usual support people. But when it comes to combat the Commando should rely on and fear Melee as tanks. Though when it comes down to a ranged player they should be able to take the brunt of the hits to themselves and keep on coming to take that person down.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Well this is essentially the same as above, fear and need melee as a tank, but ranged just doesn’t seem to drop them. *Think of the scene is "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" where the Orc with a torch just keeps going, no matter how many shots Legolas plugs into him*


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


Unique role? Simply they should be the demo team that can take out a Turret or Tank harassing their group. Run up to said AT-AT, Turret, AT-ST and set an explosives pack. Now run out of there with Burt Run A.S.A.P. before it goes off and does 6 digit damage to a 40m AoE. Now to balance this, the packs need to be very expensive, can be disarmed by Slicers, and can hit anyone *friend or foe* within the 40m or whatever the AoE is.


sunvalleyguy
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:59 pm
#50

Comandos are soldiers, therefore they need to know the terain, IE- Scout. If not then they are just plane security guerds at a park. Comando is too powerfull to just have too many skill points left over. Comando and BH just got reversed at the begining in my opinion.



Cuervo | Dark Jedi | Batista | GANKsta' | SeVeN
lockder
Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:19 pm
#51

What defines theCommando role in combat?


The commando is the ultimate elitecombat class, they cant get another skills to master for support them. For example a TKA can be rifleman or doctor or CH. We are anti-vehicular and anti-infantery class not a suicide class as we are now.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


They can attack in AoE damage and some defenses skills to melee since we use unarmed 4 to get commando profession. Big damage and medium accurancy.


What offensive abilities?


First Launcher Pistol need be AP2 beacuse its supposed to be mini rockets and that is heavy damage and it would have their own specials. I would suggest main weapons of commando be heat damage and short range(FT) blast damage and medium range(Launcher Pistol) and replace Acid rifle for rapid fire beam rifle and be energy damage and high range. If we want do another type of damage we need use us heavy weapons and grenades.


I would suggest Heavy weapons can be equipped as a normal weapon but when you shoot them you go to kneel to shoot or you need be kneeling for shooting them. They could use ammo kits for recharge them as a powerup. They could have the same damage but diferents ranges and type of damage except rockets launcher beacuse they are for kill ATST ATAT and turrets. I suggest make Heavy weapons as a regular weapon beacuse its unfair you need buy and slice every time you waste their charges. Ammo kits could be more easly to make and it will increase their use. I would suggest too add and E-web as you can deploy it same as an omni box.


Heavy weapons could be specifically for each situation and each type of target and they could have some specials For example.


Rocket launcher need be unaccurate to infantery but good accurate to big targets as turrets etc They could have a special for example you shoot 2 times at same time but you have a penalty with less accurancy using the special and time to recover a bit less than if you shoot 2 normals rockets. they could have ammo of 10 or 5 charges


Heavy Particle Beam cannon need be and a special version of a rifle( they need do a bit more damage than the big of rifles since the weapon use charges) This weapon is anti-infantery weapon it could have a special to get a multiplier of 1.15 or 1.25 overcharging the weapon but you damage the condition of weapon a lot. they could have ammo of 50 charges


Heavy Acid Beam is us acid damage type they could have a special to make a actiondot since acid is corrosive . You dont get any damage multiplier only the shoot produce a dot making overchaging the weapon. ammo chargas same as HPBC


Lighting beam cannon. Electricity damage could be to hit droids. Since a droid is a machine they could be vunerable to electricity (as an ion weapon) This weapon could have a special to destroy shields generators from droidekas and another type of droids I think none of us see a droideka without his deflector shield. Or instead that could stun the droid for a few seconds if the other type of special isnt posible. ammo charges same as HPBC


The final heavy weapon could be an E-web You could deploy it and they could have 100 or 200 charges. His special could be a frenzy attack AoE with low accurancy. when you use it you use all 50 charges or so in AoE damage but the accurancy down a lot. The animation could be the same you use for supression shoot. the animation could go from right to left and from left to right as a frenzy attack. You can recharge the weapon or putting the ammo as a powerup or if you deploy it with an option of recharge


Grenades could have some specials like cryoban could make the target shoots slow or imperial detonator could be a mine, you deploy it and if someone walk over it then explote or the mine explote if pass 10 or 15 min. and please put 10 greandes to each stack. 5 grenades only use too many space on the backpack ( you need add ammo kits for space too)


Finally we could have some melee defenses like a special for blind or something since we have unarmed as requisite for commando


What defensive abilities?


i think we need dont have many defenses since we are doing a big damage we need vunerables. Maybe only some defenses to change of posture and medium defenses to ranged and melee


What unique abilities?


We can use all type of heavy weapons


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Big damage and AoE attacks


How could/should they interact with other professions?


They could interact with doctors for buffs, combat medics for heals in combat, dancers and musicianships to buff and heal us wounds, armorsmith to get us armor and weapomsmith to get ammo kits and weapons


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


we are main class of pvp beacuse BH are a solo class for 1 vs 1 and the others classes can dabble in some profesions. we need be a combat only class


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


We are main class of pvp doing damage to big targets and infantery




SNYSER Dark Jedi Knight
SNISER Dirty Rifleman
PARTY-IS-OVER Fat wookie
HeyHolo
Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:01 pm
#52

I personally just think the main problem with commandos (I"m a master commando) is their lack of diversity. I mean every other profession has a good selection of specials to choose from to add depth to them, commandos have 1, flameSingle. I don't even count FlameCone as a seperate special as it's the same except is an area attack. Now, while flame is awesome, and high dmg, I would love to have a wider varietly of unique specials at my disposal. Then there's the Heavy Acid Rifle (HAR), this is by far the most pathetic weapon in the game. Besides shooting invisible balls of acid, it is slow and weak, and all round ineffective and basically a joke compared to the Flame Thrower. The first question you should ask yourself when evaluating that weapon is, "why would I use this over the flame thrower?" The answer will be there is no reason, even fighting mobs 100% resistant to flame, and vulnerable to Acid, you'd still be better off using your flamer with a DoT, that's how useless this weapon is.


So, my suggestion for commando would be to give us more diversity, add more unique specials for us to use so maybe we can do something besides flame single 2 all day long, revamp the HAR to at least make it viable as a second weapon.


In general though, for all professions, I feel they all need more weapons, currently we're basically using the same weapon throughout the course of the game. Carbiniers are using laser carbines from carbine 3 in marksmen, on through master carbinier, that's not right. FWG5 comes at pistols 4 in marksman, and is still one of the best, if not the best pistol through master pistoleer, save the scatter if you go BH with it.


There needs to be more profession specific weaponry so everyone isn't running around with the same weapons for the length of their gaming life.




Lope CLeski
Master Commando | Master Tera Kasi Artist
-=Cleski Incorporated=-
We make STUFF so you don't have to!

~Valhala~Naboo~ -7347, 5307

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