Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one?
OckVofad
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:58 am
#53
Well I have to vote for the known path. A few reasons (not in any particular order of importance):
1) Publish 10 is going to be almost completely dedicated to this. How can we have a Publish and not have any ofits content told to the player base? How can it be tested for bugs, content, give you feedback, etc?
2) While it may initally slow down the rush to get Jedi, once the first person completes it it will be on all the fansites anyway.
3) A known path is more friendly to the casual player who wants to become a Jedi (Yes I'm talking about me). I can log on and dedicate my 1-2 hours per day to doing the quests.
Here is my thought since I have your ear. In a perfect world, I would like to see 24 content-driven quests that have been fully tested on TC. The quests would be known to the playerbase but each quest would have a one-week timer on it. In other words you can only complete one quest per week.
That means it would take at least 24 weeks to unlock.
My two cents.
JEST3R
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:00 am
#55
Not matter what you do Just G, eventually the game mechanics will be figured out.
Only so many quests and variations are possible, and 3rd party sites such as swg.allakhazam.com will detail ever FS quest or mission or path as it is located.
I would prefer mysterious, but I am unsure how its possible given making it completely hidden when the last path was known will anger some players. The effort put into last system being compensated as promised will place people at varying stages along the path, yet again will give people clues to the path.
I just do not see mysterious as a feasible solution.
JEST3R
Kronan
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:02 am
#56
I would say why bother hiding it since like it has been stated before once their is a process figured out it will be spammed like crazy on the boards. that and I feel that this can be a very tough question for some and very easy for those that are already Jedi..ones that are already Jedi of course don't want more compitition to compete with so they would most definitely say Harder and mysterious but they to have to remember this is what everyone in the game is paying for and if you make it to difficult for player to actually bacome a Jedi then you are going to loose people. on the other hand no ne want to just see a bunch of Jedi scurrying around everywhere you go.... So I would say reveal the path but make it more Challenging get rid of the endless afk grinders and actually make people earn it instead of just using a macro to master skills all day. For such a large fan base and very populated game I would think you guys sitting behind those computers thinking of the new ideas would be able to come up with something other than grinding to fullfill your path to enlightenment. Give them Story Line give it back ground make adventerous trials that they have to complete on a solo bases and make it rewarding...sorry but I don't know about the rest but a new painting for my house doesn't seem like much of a brain crunch for you techies come on give us more content !!!
Pytting
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:02 am
#57
JustG wrote:
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
The question is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the feedback...
- g
Message Edited by JustG on 07-10-2004 09:02 AM
Message Edited by JustG on 07-10-2004 09:06 AM
I dont think it will matter very soon everyone will know how to become jedi anyway
Kuval
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:03 am
#58
Personally I think, whichever path you make it, it will be known, and it will be grindable, so I say, why not just make it known to everyone.
Make it desireable, but not out of reach, make it exciting and interesting and not pointless.
You can't beat the power gamers... may as well beat them at their own game. Only 10% of the population is of the power gaming nature, and speaking as one of the non elitest power gamers, I don't have problems with everyone knowing how to become FS, as long as its not so easy as to, talk to NPC x, then to NPC y and gratz you're FS.
Tiaga
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:03 am
#59
My opinion is both, and neither. You can already see the party lines. On one side is the "I deserve a jedi" crowd. They don't want it mysterious, they want it handed to them on a silver platter. At the minimum a walkthrough, better would be nothing required at all. On the other hand the existing jedi, those sick of jedi, and people who just don't care about jedi. They either don't care, or would like to see it something mysterious that could at least provide some amusement.
I would be on the side of mysterious myself... But as they say, the best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry, and leave us not but grief and pain for promised joy.
In the field I used to work in, there is a concept known as "security through obscurity". Usually accompanied with "is no security at all". What that means to say is that any system who's working relies on it's workings not being revealed is not a good system. Eventually all will be revealed.
So make it something mysterious, gripping like a good book, full of twists and unexpected turns. Something like the dynamic POI system scrapped soon after release.. Make the start well known, and what the process involves well known, but make sure the process is something that can't be easily documented in a walk-through. The current process technically falls into that category. The best walk-through you can get is "start mastering professions". However, that is a very unfulfilling system.
I've a feeling the system is in place, and the decision now is just on how much to reveal.. But something like in the movie "The Game" would be great. A process that you must initiate, but once it is started, it creeps up on you when you least expect it, and you must be ready to react.
If that is not an option, my choice would be a path of mystery with a clear start. Players feel helpless when they don't even know if they've begun on the path. Some sort of progress marking might not be a bad idea, either. Not something like an xp meter that can be watched, but something more organic that can be noticed, observed, but not easily measured. For example, a shrine that glows brighter the closer you get. As you become more sensitive to the world around you, you start to notice it more, so you see more of a glow.
Though I know it won't make a difference to the one-star bandits rampant in this thread, for the record I do not have a jedi, but were the path something interesting and full of new discovery, I'd likely give it a shot. I'd even do it twice - no way am I making my main a jedi should I decide to take it beyond just force sensitivity.
I would be on the side of mysterious myself... But as they say, the best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry, and leave us not but grief and pain for promised joy.
In the field I used to work in, there is a concept known as "security through obscurity". Usually accompanied with "is no security at all". What that means to say is that any system who's working relies on it's workings not being revealed is not a good system. Eventually all will be revealed.
So make it something mysterious, gripping like a good book, full of twists and unexpected turns. Something like the dynamic POI system scrapped soon after release.. Make the start well known, and what the process involves well known, but make sure the process is something that can't be easily documented in a walk-through. The current process technically falls into that category. The best walk-through you can get is "start mastering professions". However, that is a very unfulfilling system.
I've a feeling the system is in place, and the decision now is just on how much to reveal.. But something like in the movie "The Game" would be great. A process that you must initiate, but once it is started, it creeps up on you when you least expect it, and you must be ready to react.
If that is not an option, my choice would be a path of mystery with a clear start. Players feel helpless when they don't even know if they've begun on the path. Some sort of progress marking might not be a bad idea, either. Not something like an xp meter that can be watched, but something more organic that can be noticed, observed, but not easily measured. For example, a shrine that glows brighter the closer you get. As you become more sensitive to the world around you, you start to notice it more, so you see more of a glow.
Though I know it won't make a difference to the one-star bandits rampant in this thread, for the record I do not have a jedi, but were the path something interesting and full of new discovery, I'd likely give it a shot. I'd even do it twice - no way am I making my main a jedi should I decide to take it beyond just force sensitivity.
BlueHorizion
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:04 am
#60
Whatever you do, dont make it where you have to wander around looking for random spawn locations in the wildernessfor hours waiting for some mysterious mob to spawneither like those horridly boring Hermit quests.
Something new, something exciting, something fun, something to keep people's attention in-game rather than having then hitting the numlock on their speeders and nodding off at their keyboards.
Elyssa
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:04 am
#61
Above all, it should be "fun" for EVERY character.
There's really no point in keeping it hidden. Once it's known, it'll be posted and everyone will know how to do it. All hiding it does is frustrate the casual gamers.
You have to remember that my casual gamer's $15/month is just as important as the power gamer's $15/month.
This game has become nothing but one big attempt to put up roadblocks for the power gamers that really does nothing but frustrate the casual gamers.
I am 100% crafter. That means that gubburs and durnis can easily kill me.
Unless the "path to force sensitivity" takes that into account, I am being prevented from participating in bonus game content just because I'm playing the game the way that it's meant to be played.
The "path to jedi" on the other hand should be difficult. Such a character by its very nature would be designed for combat. This path should also not be hidden. If it's story driven, it won't need to be.
In the pre-launch days, it was stated that the hard-core gamers could obtain a jedi in a few months while a casual gamer could do it in about a year. Well, I've been in this game in one form or another since launch and I don't have one yet. In fact, I can't imagine that any true casual gamer would haveEVER done it under the old system. In fact, when the holocrons came along, all you did was turn them into hologrinders.
Stop trying to use obscurity to disguise a lack of content and just make the game fun for those of us that aren't hard-core gamers.
MasterNerfSlayer
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:05 am
#62
Once you start down the path, you should have a fairly good idea of where you're going. Keep some mystery in it maybe, but long and interesting. I realise that may be hard to achieve on short notice though, but I know you have a bunch of creative people working under you 
Edit: I gotta /sign on Tiaga's post too...
Message Edited by MasterNerfSlayer on 07-11-2004 04:08 AM
IgescaStorm
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:07 am
#63
Ok, a new try. Now I try to stay constructive.
I am not a Jedi and i made the hologrind, although i did not like it, but i gave it up.
I loved the guessing of the players on the path and i love really good stories.
I think, it is not a problem to have so many Jedi in the game now, because there are many-many people, who do not want to be Jedi (like me. I wanna be a FS MA/AS/WS).
Before the new system you have never seen a Jedi. That is also not right! I see maybe 1-2 Jedi every 2-3 days and i think, it is enough. You can see them and you can feel the SW in the game, but it is not like others say, there is on every corner a Jedi.
I think, this mix is optimal. Maybe i am on the wrong places... dont know, but i think,the number of the Jedi isok, like it is.
Now to the new path:
The game should see onto your starting profession and give some hidden actions to this profession.
I have no problem, if one of the requirements is to master this profession.
I started Artisan, so I want to play artisan and not CH and BH and god knows what yet... so let my hidden requirements be like
1. Master the profession.
2. Master one of the Elite professions from this starting profession (NO MATTER WHICH ONE!)
3. Make 100 swooperbikes (Related to artisan. For other professions of corse other things)
4. Sell 100 swooperbikes. (like abowe)
5. etc.
That should be the hidden part of the path.
Now the visible path:
There should be NPCs in every big city (like in Coronet) in the cantina, who are talking about an old man somewhere on THIS planet. He would say "Nobody knows him, but rumors tell, he lives somewhere between the 2 big rocks, where the Bantha yells (similar silly hint for each planet). You have to look for this place and if you found the old man, he tells you, he was a Jedi and want to teach you.
(The hint for theplace to find the teacher could be a random piece of a couple predesigned textes. Maybe 10-20 places to give players the feeling, it is for everybody a unique teacher)
This teacher should give you missions and quests (mainly in your starting profession) and you should always come back to him for reward and new quests.
Some of his quests could lead you to other NPCs, who also give you subquests.
The quests should be related to your profession and to the Jedi path. Not just go in the desert and kill a random monster. That is not fun...maybe the first 5 times, but not more.
There could be unique things, like the fight between Luke and "Vader" on dagoba. You can do it 1x and never again, but it would be cool and fun. I mean unique monsters, appearing only for you and only for this quest.
Please do not make the path poorly designed, like:
1 go and kill a rancor.
2 go and find a random wp and kill the rancor
3 go and find this NPC and give him a rancor
4 go and kill a bigger rancor
5 etc.
I hope you got my point, although my english is not so good :-)
Make the path fun AND mysterious. The good mix is the secret of timesink, rarity AND fun for players.
straiceil
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:07 am
#64
I believe that it absolutely should be a mystery but once it is known in general what the mechanics are it shouldn't be a grind.
Becoming FS shouldn't be all that difficult I don't think. But advancing through the ranks of Jedi absolutly should be. Getting to Jedi should be tricky but not too bad. Actually surviving as one should be a huge accomplishment.
The reason I say this is because if you make it very hard to get to Jedi but easy to play as a jedi and remain as a jedi, over time you will have more and more people playing as Jedi until you see Jedi running around all over like we do now. Given enough time everyone could be a Jedi. On the other hand, if being a Jedi is tremendously difficult, and death brings large penalties then overtime the jedi population will flatten out at a level that it directly proportional to the difficulty of surviving as one. This was the original intent of the system based on my understanding.
If as I suspect will be the case, that Playing as a Jedi is quite rewarding and will not punish being very visible and numerous in number, then I personally don't feel that you should also reward grinding powergamers with the gift of Jedi. Maybe you should have to go a certain amount of time without killing in order to become a Jedi.
Kuval
Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:08 am
#65
Remember that Jedi that had his own store down on Dantooine? Oh yeah, he didnt, thus why crafters shouldnt have any ability to go Jedi...