Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one?
Genrader
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:47 am
#40
Twiggy_Gorath wrote:
Genrader wrote:
The path to FS should be completely mysterious and random.. You can't possibly know the HOURS of fun my friends and I had doing things like walking down scary roads on Dantooine hoping to find an NPC that would tell us something to do.
We spent hours doing all kinds of quests hoping our "good will" would get us to the path to FS.
How disappointed we were to realize it was nothing but holocrons and professions made me want to throw this game out the window...geezus.
Also, the more mysterious and random it is, the harder it will be for people to make guides for everything. Make each quest vary a little, and make it so the quests are in completely random order. Some will involve intellect, some will involve finding very rare spawns, some will involve good will, etc.
These quests better be INTERESTING, GOOD, RANDOM and not easily put into FAQs on how to do it quickly.
And on a side note, I am NOT a Jedi.Message Edited by Genrader on 07-10-2004 11:38 AM
Message Edited by Genrader on 07-10-2004 11:39 AM
LOL! My friends are I were like that too. Every NPC interaction, mission was a potential slot unlocking activity. What a kick in the mid-frontal region it was to find out there was no mystery at all, just some pathetically mindless system of grinding through professions. If we were smart we all should have bailed on the revealing of that "mysterious" game system and left SOE to ponder it a bit more seriously.
Ah well. I hear WoW looks promising from some of my friends and guildmates testing it. Be nice to throw money at someone else besides SOE (EQ, SWG....) for a change. Especially a class act like Blizzard (they are developing WoW still right?).
Whoohoo, someone like me! It was horrifying when I got my holocron and it said Armorsmith. I nearly died.
As for WoW, yah, they're still developing it. I probably won't end up switching to that, I'll either switch back and forth between EQII and SWG or stick with SWG until Middle Earth Online next year.
OmniReaperr
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:47 am
#41
Why not have both? Make the knowledge of how to START it widley known, but make the path itself vauge and mysterious...and unique to every player, if possible.
GraySeven
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:50 am
#42
It needs to be a mysterious path. The reason is easy to see. At this point in the EU, there was only a handful of Jedi, but if everyone knows the path, then it can be ground out and there will be an inordinate amount of Jedi PC's.
Having Jedi PC's be a rare thing was one of the great things about this game. The initial system to open the FCFS was horrid, and you saw how easy it was for people to grind out the FCFS once the holocrons came into being....
Jedi should be rare, and it is unfortunate that so many cats escaped the bag already. Make opening the slot how it was initially envisioned in Beta; i.e. a mystery to be solved and a rare event to be treasured.
Ko-aIri
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:51 am
#43
The method IMO should be a combination of known and unknown factors.
Ideally, it would take the form of a content-driven quest similar to the new Hermit Quest. Perhaps with the semi-static spawns or spawn areas, preferably with quests on each planet of the galaxy, driving the player to complete stories and missions.
Please do NOT make them like the Jedi Knight Trials. Those are the most uncreative missions that have been put in this game. Find MOB, Kill MOB. Repeat ad nauseum. Every quest should have a story. Every quest should be compelling.
Also, at least some of the quests should take time to complete, in order to purposely gate people from advancing too quickly. In other words, the spawns might not be there every day. Or if they are there every day, perhaps some of the key quests are quite difficult to locate because the spawn area is so broad. If this step is not taken, and the path is able to have spoilers written about it (which it will, this is unavoidable), you will find that powergamers invariably will find ways to complete the "months of work" in a few weeks or days. The Hermit Quest was completed by a good number of people the day it went live. I'd say that is evidence enough to support some form of gating. Even if the quests say "return to me in 3 days time" or something, at least this will stretch out the progress.
Perhaps every new quest, and indeed some old quests, could be adapted to grant a certain amount of invisible "Force-Sensitivity" rank, similar to how visibility works for Jedi. For example, the Hermit Quest could be made to be worth 10,000 Force Sensitivity points. 2,000 for each of the 4 parts, and 2,000 points for returning to the Hermit. Make the goal something like 1 million Force Sensitivity points to "unlock," and grant Force Sensitive skills along the way as you progress. I don't think the player should necessarily know the value of each quest they do, just know that they are progressing. This also would enable you to assign a value to any given act in the game. Killing a nightsister elder might generate some points. Mastering a profession that one had not yet completed might generate some points. Doing missions might generate some points. Crafting an item might generate points. Obviously, the quests would be where the "big" point-gain is, but in this way every person could truly mark their own path, by progressing in whatever way they see fit.
There must be a COMPLETE path to Force Sensitivity that includes no combat whatsoever. A master chef/master tailor should have just as much opportunity through their own quests as a master combat medic/master rifleman. There must be entertainer quests, crafting quests, combat quests, medical quests, etc. If not, the system is fundamentally unfair to the playerbase as a whole. Do NOT require crafters/entertainers/medics to group with combatants to progress. This is UNFAIR to a person with no interest in combat. And before you say "well, Jedi is a combat profession"... yes, this is true. However, some people will prefer to play a "combat-lite" Jedi and fill out the ranks of the healers/enhancers, or will want to just benefit from the passive Force Sensitive skills that can be earned. EVERYONE should have that opportunity, this game is not just about combat.
In conclusion, this system has a lot of opportunity to impress... but it must be like the Hermit Quests, not like the Jedi Knight Trials. And as I said, people should have a general idea of what they need to do, but not necessarily the EXACT path nor should they know how much value everything they do has. In this way, it can be a truly epic adventure, taken at the pace of the player, and be something one is proud to have accomplished.
Ideally, it would take the form of a content-driven quest similar to the new Hermit Quest. Perhaps with the semi-static spawns or spawn areas, preferably with quests on each planet of the galaxy, driving the player to complete stories and missions.
Please do NOT make them like the Jedi Knight Trials. Those are the most uncreative missions that have been put in this game. Find MOB, Kill MOB. Repeat ad nauseum. Every quest should have a story. Every quest should be compelling.
Also, at least some of the quests should take time to complete, in order to purposely gate people from advancing too quickly. In other words, the spawns might not be there every day. Or if they are there every day, perhaps some of the key quests are quite difficult to locate because the spawn area is so broad. If this step is not taken, and the path is able to have spoilers written about it (which it will, this is unavoidable), you will find that powergamers invariably will find ways to complete the "months of work" in a few weeks or days. The Hermit Quest was completed by a good number of people the day it went live. I'd say that is evidence enough to support some form of gating. Even if the quests say "return to me in 3 days time" or something, at least this will stretch out the progress.
Perhaps every new quest, and indeed some old quests, could be adapted to grant a certain amount of invisible "Force-Sensitivity" rank, similar to how visibility works for Jedi. For example, the Hermit Quest could be made to be worth 10,000 Force Sensitivity points. 2,000 for each of the 4 parts, and 2,000 points for returning to the Hermit. Make the goal something like 1 million Force Sensitivity points to "unlock," and grant Force Sensitive skills along the way as you progress. I don't think the player should necessarily know the value of each quest they do, just know that they are progressing. This also would enable you to assign a value to any given act in the game. Killing a nightsister elder might generate some points. Mastering a profession that one had not yet completed might generate some points. Doing missions might generate some points. Crafting an item might generate points. Obviously, the quests would be where the "big" point-gain is, but in this way every person could truly mark their own path, by progressing in whatever way they see fit.
There must be a COMPLETE path to Force Sensitivity that includes no combat whatsoever. A master chef/master tailor should have just as much opportunity through their own quests as a master combat medic/master rifleman. There must be entertainer quests, crafting quests, combat quests, medical quests, etc. If not, the system is fundamentally unfair to the playerbase as a whole. Do NOT require crafters/entertainers/medics to group with combatants to progress. This is UNFAIR to a person with no interest in combat. And before you say "well, Jedi is a combat profession"... yes, this is true. However, some people will prefer to play a "combat-lite" Jedi and fill out the ranks of the healers/enhancers, or will want to just benefit from the passive Force Sensitive skills that can be earned. EVERYONE should have that opportunity, this game is not just about combat.
In conclusion, this system has a lot of opportunity to impress... but it must be like the Hermit Quests, not like the Jedi Knight Trials. And as I said, people should have a general idea of what they need to do, but not necessarily the EXACT path nor should they know how much value everything they do has. In this way, it can be a truly epic adventure, taken at the pace of the player, and be something one is proud to have accomplished.
JediKnightCZ
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:51 am
#44
OK. I would like to see it that way.
1) It should be known. We don't want to see some stupid posts like "100% way to unlock Force Sensitivity!"
2) It should be quest oriented. Long, hard and arduous quests, but still quests.
3) It should be unique to every character, or at least every profession. Meaning that there will be like 32 series of quests total.
4) Let us choose our series. Meaning that if I am TKA/Fencer/Pikeman/Brawler, I would be able to choose one of these series, but not any other.
Hasun
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:52 am
#45
make it a section of quest that are unlocked after mastering any profession, make the final quest soloing a dark Jedi knight or light jedi knight while wearing a full set of Mandolrian Armour and a Jet pack that should keep the jedi population down.
Moriendor
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:54 am
#46
Definitely mysterious and (you must have either had a plan for that at some point in the past or just lied to us) -if possible- different for everyone. The pre-Holo days were the best days of SWG IMHO when everyone was looking for hints and clues and discussing those things in the Jedi forums. Everything in this game has been explored by now. Adding a little mystery back in would rock and make the game exciting again.
HenduSoone
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:55 am
#47
First, if there are going to be this many Jedi running around, PLEASE do something about the game's timeline. After A New Hope, the Jedi were all but extinct. Currently in SWG, Jedi are just as common as (if not more common than)they were in the height of the Old Republic.
Deciding on the mysteriousness of the new path to becoming a Jedi needs to be addressed AFTER a change in the timeline. I see two choices: move time backward, to the Old Republic, or move time forward, to after Luke hasestablished the Jedi Adademy on the moon of Yavin IV. Of course, this would totally mess with the GCW... but I'll ignore that for now.
Should the Old Republic path be taken, becoming a Jedi would be a well-known process. There's the Jedi Council and a whole bunch of Jedi running all over the place.
Ifthe game goes post-RotJ, the path would be mysterioius. There is only one Jedi Master in the galaxy, and he doesn't really know what he's doing.
Either of these solutionswouldgreatly please me. Other decisions, even keeping the game where it is, will not drive me away from SWG. I must admit, it is a great game, and the Jedi issue is my only beef with it. There's enough other good stuff in it to keep me playing. I don't really want to be a Jedi, anyway. Bounty hunting and role playingis a whole lot more fun!
Volksjaeger
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:55 am
#48
It should have the strength of five gorillas...with big chainsaw arms!
Sorry, couldn't help it.
While during this timeperiod there were many, many, many more Force Sensitives than actual jedi, I still believe the path should be hidden. Not 'Hermit' hidden, but still enough to feel rewarded just by finally finding his old man. I also don't think this should pertain to just combat. Maybe there is a way to integrate crafting into this.
EX. DroidsmithBob finds mysterious piece in the jungles of Yavin 4 while raveling with his buddies. It shouldn't say what it is, but what it is able to be put in. Maybe he finds it will fit into one of his R6 units, which he though would be swell. So he sticks it in, along with other components needed to make the droid, and it works. After awhile the droid speaks to him. Turns out that piece was an acient jedi relic with a jedi master (or DARK jedi master? dun dun dun) inside it and it has manifested itself in the droid. The droid will act as a new player helper droid except that...ya know...it will tell you to save this person or kill those innocent bantha babies.
Same thing could be applied to any crafting prof, talking blaster, talking armor talking...pastry?
You get the idea 
Fodder650
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:55 am
#49
Mysterious and diffucult. Of course once its found out. It will no longer be mysterious and diffucult. But anything that slows the amount of jedis in game is a good thing
hijammer
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:56 am
#50
Just make it a known mechanic. As other have stated if you make it a mystery some one will figure it out and then it is just a mechanic. Then you would have to spen another 6 months to revamp it again and just get more customers POed and leave. I left the game for a while b/c holo grindign for the mystery componet killed the game. The jedi have already change the game now just let every one have one and you may have more peopl join to play jedi. Bu this is just my 2 cents.
Ralfire
Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:58 am
#51
Make it known. I stopped grinding 2 months ago in anticipation of doing a quest to unlock. It's not a game breaker, just make it fun. A little roll playing would be nice instead of killing everything in site.