Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Feedback 6-23-04: Core Combat Change
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Axe_Grinder wrote:
Jedi Knight
0/0/4/4 Saber
4/2/0/4 Healing
0/0/0/4 Defense
3/4/0/4 Enhance
Missing 25% against a Master Teras Kasi / Master Fencer - getting hit 90% of the time.
This is unacceptable. Explain to me how a light saber can miss so often against something vulnerable. Even if he blocks he should take damage. I'm using a freaking weapon that can cut through blast doors for gods sake.
A Jedi Knight should NEVER miss against a non-jedi. Change the roll values to reflect this.
Explain to me how I can survive a hit from a blaster at point blank range wearing nothing but hot pants and we are talking about lightsaber blocking.
Won't even deign the "jedi knight should never miss" with an answer.
If you only want to deal with Jedis, go play Jedi academy.
Thunderheart wrote:
"this combat change was going to go in as part of the combat rebalance anyway" - - yes and this is a key point that hasn't saturated community discussions yet. There is a certain amount of Jedi skills that seem out of whack from the way the game works now...because it is (a bit). Otherwise there would be a lot of work that would be done now and then re-done in a short period of time. Repeating that work would actually take away from some other work item during the CB and that's not a good thing because the CB is going to be a lot of important work.
I agree that maybe we as a majority don't realise that the changes are done with the future in mind. But on the other side of the token, we aren't playing in the future. As you said there is a lot of work to be done for the CB. You referred to it as coming in a short period of time, maybe so in a programmers time frame but in a players it is still 3 months away.
What we are feeling, well atleast I am, is that we are out of wack and will be out of wack for 3 months. In addition to being out of wack we are still expected to suffer the same penalites for dieing.
I've kept up to date on all the Jedi changes, fixes, and tweeks, what it comes down to is that some of our major concerns seemed to be ignored because of a vision that isn't a reality yet. I have a difficult time trying to justify why things can't be re-tweeked as necessary later. I feel like I am being asked to go ahead and play and pay for 3 months while the system gets fixed. When it could be adjusted to live values now, and re-adjusted later when its apropriate.
I hope that makes sense.
Thadios wrote:
Tested 0404 saber vrs a master fencer / tka def stacker... as well as master rifle for saber block...
- going through my combat log, I looked over a section of 50 attack rounds vrs the master fencer / tka and found I was missing 7-8 out of 10... so about 70-80% of the time which is not acceptable.
- going over another 50 rounds vrs the master rifle, I find that my block rating drastically dropped! This is not acceptable either I ended blocking maybe 4-5 / 10 ... 40-50%
Saber Block needs to have a certain lvl of guaranteed blaster block rate for lvl 4 saber and another one for master saber... we have already discussed and know that saber block of incoming shots is the heart of all Jedi who use lightsabers... we should be VERY VERY good at blocking any incoming shots... period!
As a master rifleman I should be that much better at hitting you. Test saber block against a rifleman with 4004 or fight a non stacked TKA that is not a master. You get my point.
With the new system the number of Jedi is going to flood the servers. Jedi should be no better than any other combat class otherwise rifleman, carbineers, pistoleers, fencers, swordsman, and pikeman will be a thing of the past like CH. I dont want to see a server full of Jedi as their primary combat character. I think the DEVs are setting themselves up for combat balance 2. Don't get me wrong I want to see everyone have their chance to play a Jedi and I know Jedi in the movies and literature are amazing in their combat ability, but playability of the game in this case needs to overrule 100% continuity with the movies and literature. Just my opinion.
Has this change in the "to hit" determination been applied to NPCs and creatures?
Axe_Grinder wrote:
Jedi Knight
0/0/4/4 Saber
4/2/0/4 Healing
0/0/0/4 Defense
3/4/0/4 Enhance
Missing 25% against a Master Teras Kasi / Master Fencer - getting hit 90% of the time.
This is unacceptable. Explain to me how a light saber can miss so often against something vulnerable. Even if he blocks he should take damage. I'm using a freaking weapon that can cut through blast doors for gods sake.
A Jedi Knight should NEVER miss against a non-jedi. Change the roll values to reflect this.
explain to me how I can use a rocket launcher at point blank and miss and both of us still have all our limbs intact
I know how...it is a game! 
wookgunner wrote:
There needs to be balance and Jedi need to be killed. Masters of any combat profession should have the ability to take out Jedi. TKM and bounty hunters should be even better with the advantage in their favor. I do agree TkA should have a higher XP and skill point requirements (master medic and/or master brawler) given the package they get.
If this is not the case in 6 months or sooner after publish 10, Star Wars Galaxies will become Jedi Academy with crafters as a sideprofession. That is not the game many of us have signed up to play. Accept the fact that you have vulnerabilities. You shouldn't be lame like carbineer is (been one I know), but you should not be "gods" in this game either.
Jedi have nothing to do with balance. That isn't star wars. It should take masters (notice the plural) to take out a jedi not one master. In fact in my opinion you should need 5-6 masters to take out a jedi. Here are some facts for you to chew on:
1. Everyone who is a jedi now had to earn their jedi, whereas all you had to do was level your character.
2. After EARNING their unlock, they have to level their character. Leveling their jedi isn't as easy as leveling to Master Bounty Hunter. It takes alot more experience and it involved alot more risk. Because of those points they deserve to be MUCH more powerful then any one class especially when they master being a jedi.
I might agree with you that lesser jedi "in training" don't deserve to be as powerful as 4 or 5 masters, but certainly Jedi Knights do. That sir is also consistant with the Star Wars Universe. One final thing, I do agree that there needs to be something to insure that this game doesn't turn into Jedi Academy. I think that the devs should now hardcap the jedi on every server and in order for you to get a "jedi" character the number of characters on the server needs to be less than the cap.
Natanial Storm
Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 06-24-2004 10:47 AM
Dozer2 wrote:
I am trying to do Swordsman on the test server and am 0,0,3,0 in brawler. Well i am only trying to attack low level mobs on tattooine and I miss bewteen 50% and 75% of the time. This is extremely frustrating as it takes forever to kill anything.
welcome to the combat rebalance, If you think it is bad now, wait till they nerf your weapons, armor, and buffs. Welcome to the Everquest Galaxies of tomorrow!
Natanial Storm
Grinding is not earning. A trained monkey can grind a profession. The simple fact that anyone was willing to spend x amount of time grinding - sometimes afk - does not mean he has earned the right to be much more powerful than other characters.
WarlordRhawn wrote:
1. Everyone who is a jedi now had to earn their jedi, whereas all you had to do was level your character.
2. After EARNING their unlock, they have to level their character. Leveling their jedi isn't as easy as leveling to Master Bounty Hunter. It takes alot more experience and it involved alot more risk. Because of those points they deserve to be MUCH more powerful then any one class especially when they master being a jedi.
NPC type: Flail Killer
Type of attack: saber1hHit1
Total number of swings: 14 (10 saber1hHit1, 4 'default' attack)
Total number of “misses”: 4 (all specials)
looks fair, however i experienced missing while attacking lair (2-4 specials missed in total)