Development Cycle Archive

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Arconis_Runicblade wrote:

it actually quite easy to understand why they did this for those who aren't seeing it...

this combat change was going to go in as part of the combat rebalance anyway and as Jedi are already "Balanced" compared to other classes they needed to push this small change in to ensure that jedi could contend until the combat rebalance comes in. This way even though other classes will have higher defense and attack mods till the combat rebalance, the Jedi will be able to hit them regardless.

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Part of the combat balance is fine, but as a post about half a page above yours stated, you can miss 4+ times where normally you wouldn't miss at all. I'm all for there being a chance to miss, but for a pistoleer to miss 4 times in a row at point blank range is pathetic. The devs will be creating the "sandbox" for testing just this sort of thing, pushing it out less than a week before the patch goes live is nuts. There is no reason why they couldn't have just increased the Jedi accuracy some for a temporary fix.

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Thunderheart wrote:

I was talking with one of the developers about this and he added, "The best written description I can think of on the change to combat could be described as the basic “to hit” combat works like this"

• The Attacker rolls a “to hit” number, the defender rolls a “to defend” roll.
• These numbers get compared, if the attacker is higher, they hit, if the defender is higher, they miss.

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Sounds like someone played alot of Palladium games!

(If you get that reference you are officially OLD!(or at least old-school.))

So when a Master Fencer is fighting say, Dwarf Nunas, the Master Fencer's defence roll bonus will be reduced to the maximum roll the Dwarf Nuna can make?

What happens when this Master Fencer wandering the dry seas of Tatooine comes across Frik and Frak, the Mountain Squill and Dwarf Nuna duo, and both Frik and Frak attack our intrepid Master Fencer?

Is the attack and defence rolls between the Squill and the Dwarf Nuna calculated seperately? Or is the Master Fencer's defence lowered to where the Dwark Nuna allways has the possability to get a shot in, making the Fencer wide open to be torn to shreds by the Squill?

Because it seems to me the possability of a Creature Handler bringing out a rancor and a rill to confound a defender's defences seems likely.

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Jannie Knowing of Eclipse

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rockanddroll wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

I was talking with one of the developers about this and he added, "The best written description I can think of on the change to combat could be described as the basic “to hit” combat works like this"

• The Attacker rolls a “to hit” number, the defender rolls a “to defend” roll.


• These numbers get compared, if the attacker is higher, they hit, if the defender is higher, they miss.

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Sounds like someone played alot of Palladium games!

(If you get that reference you are officially OLD!(or at least old-school.))

So when a Master Fencer is fighting say, Dwarf Nunas, the Master Fencer's defence roll bonus will be reduced to the maximum roll the Dwarf Nuna can make?

What happens when this Master Fencer wandering the dry seas of Tatooine comes across Frik and Frak, the Mountain Squill and Dwarf Nuna duo, and both Frik and Frak attack our intrepid Master Fencer?

Is the attack and defence rolls between the Squill and the Dwarf Nuna calculated seperately? Or is the Master Fencer's defence lowered to where the Dwark Nuna allways has the possability to get a shot in, making the Fencer wide open to be torn to shreds by the Squill?

Because it seems to me the possability of a Creature Handler bringing out a rancor and a rill to confound a defender's defences seems likely.

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I would think they just added an "always miss at this roll, and an always hit at this roll" check, like in d20. So, basically, if you roll your max result you hit, if you roll your worst possible result you miss, no matter the target.

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BenderTheGreat wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

I was talking with one of the developers about this and he added, "The best written description I can think of on the change to combat could be described as the basic “to hit” combat works like this"

• The Attacker rolls a “to hit” number, the defender rolls a “to defend” roll.


• These numbers get compared, if the attacker is higher, they hit, if the defender is higher, they miss.

The problem is that through multiple stacking of defense skills mods, tapes, foods, abilities, etc. The defender could get into a state where their Minimum roll number, would be higher than the Maximum roll possible by an attacker, and this makes them impossible to hit. Conversely, the attacker through this same method could get into a state where the Minimum attack roll was higher than the Maximum defense roll, making it so they never missed.

The change drops the Minimum roll (for both defense and to hit) so that you can never have a minimum number so high that you get into an “always hits” or “always be missed” state.

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Was trying to make some sense of this, and thought of this possible analogy. Please let me know if this is accurate

I'm looking at this in D&D sort of terms, where a target has such a good defensive rating (armor class) that even with all your mods (plusses 'to hit') you could never achieve the number required 'to hit', even if you get the maximum from the random number generator (20 on a 20-sided die).

Is what has been done similar to the D&D system of "A roll of 20 always hits, regardless of modifiers. And a roll of1 always misses, regardless of modifiers"? Or am I just totally off-base, hehe.

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Kind of like that? We are tweaking the algorithms to kind of do that. The "always hits" would be more of what was described in this thread as a "hard cap".

Usingyour example, Its more like the number ranges of the tables in the manuals. The ranges of numbers have been adjusted to make sure that the ranges at thetop (low level)of a table overlap the ranges at the bottom (high level).

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Arconis_Runicblade wrote:

it actually quite easy to understand why they did this for those who aren't seeing it...

this combat change was going to go in as part of the combat rebalance anyway and as Jedi are already "Balanced" compared to other classes they needed to push this small change in to ensure that jedi could contend until the combat rebalance comes in. This way even though other classes will have higher defense and attack mods till the combat rebalance, the Jedi will be able to hit them regardless.

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"this combat change was going to go in as part of the combat rebalance anyway" - - yes and this is a key point that hasn't saturated community discussions yet. There is a certain amount of Jedi skills that seem out of whack from the way the game works now...because it is (a bit). Otherwise there would be a lot of work that would be done now and then re-done in a short period of time. Repeating that work would actually take away from some other work item during the CB and that's not a good thing because the CB is going to be a lot of important work.

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rockanddroll wrote:

Sounds like someone played alot of Palladium games!

(If you get that reference you are officially OLD!(or at least old-school.))

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There are a bunch of old school PnP guys here

Lairs should be absolutely, positively, always hittable. It's a huge stationary object. Only the lowest of levels should be able to miss them. If you're a master of an elite profession there should be no way that you would miss a lair.

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Ramona_Garcia wrote:
I would think they just added an "always miss at this roll, and an always hit at this roll" check, like in d20. So, basically, if you roll your max result you hit, if you roll your worst possible result you miss, no matter the target.

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Well what TH said was:

The change drops the Minimum roll (for both defense and to hit) so that you can never have a minimum number so high that you get into an “always hits” or “always be missed” state.

That isn't a '1 always misses' statement. And the results people are seeing supports that this isn't a situation where the min/max of a randomizing agent will cause a miss/hit. It seems like they have implemented a system where a low skill attacker will bring down the defences of a skilled defender. Now I'm all for giving everyone a chance at a lucky shot, but I need to know if those defences are avatar to avatar, or if they are broad changes.

Because I swear I will bring a bag of rills to the DWB to bring down the defences of the guys I want to kill and let my guildmantes get their 1% miss.

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SimDroid wrote:

One thing I've noticed: I now swing and miss at lairs... quite often I might say too. Is it possibly to make lairs 100% hittable, but everything else not?

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You HIT the Immovable Lair for 2000 damage, but IT DODGES your attack!

LOL

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SimDroid wrote:

One thing I've noticed: I now swing and miss at lairs... quite often I might say too. Is it possibly to make lairs 100% hittable, but everything else not?

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• going through my combat log, I looked over a section of 50 attack rounds vrs the master fencer / tka and found I was missing 7-8 out of 10... so about 70-80% of the time which is not acceptable.


• going over another 50 rounds vrs the master rifle, I find that my block rating drastically dropped! This is not acceptable either I ended blocking maybe 4-5 / 10 ... 40-50%

Saber Block needs to have a certain lvl of guaranteed blaster block rate for lvl 4 saber and another one for master saber... we have already discussed and know that saber block of incoming shots is the heart of all Jedi who use lightsabers... we should be VERY VERY good at blocking any incoming shots... period!