CUEmu - Thread Posts

Daikatsu

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:06 pm

Castigula wrote:

***so how is this diffrent from that player with the novice artisan tag hitting his macro to equip his comp armor and flamethrower, that btw hits for about 4x the damage that any ch creature does? the only diffrence is the player is more dangerous.

Because that player remains the opponents sole target instead of having something else now become a priority (and if you dont think a rancor is a priority...)

This does not just apply to PvP. It's mainly for PvE. Being able to call a pet immediately for help would allow you to take mobs that are much tougher than you should be able to, and that destroys the designer intended growth curve, leading for even more issues.

Londer Dukrous
Elder Bounty Hunter/Teras Kasi Elder
Lost Souls, Corellia, Starsider

Matsubaa

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:08 pm

#54

Naquiel wrote:

Example:

You about to fight, you start to attack a fellow and suddenly he pops out a pet and then attacks you. Do you find this fair on not having a timer? I think so. Without the timer Ch would be uber once again and pop out any pet they wanted right befor they where attacked or flip flop a fresh pet when needed in the heat of battle (a good reason to have a timer for pets and the wait for battles).

Without 30 second timer:

You start to attack a fellow, he's forced into combat and unable to call a pet until he can successfully /peace, meaning he's not only not attacking but he is out of range of your attacks. He can't call his pet and he dies.

With 30 second timer:

You start to attack a fellow, he's forced into combat and unable to call a pet until he can successfully /peace, meaning he's not only not attacking but he is out of range of your attacks. He can't call his pet and he dies.

Notice the similarity? The 30 second timer has absolutely *nothing* to do with being able to "flip flop a fresh pet". You can't do that now and you never could because of the combat calling restrictions. Moreover it is arguable that there is no benefit to such a strategy anyway. Pets don't instaheal on the datapad anymore, meaning you have little or no benefit to storing them in combat aside from preservation of their vitality. You can't store them until 60 seconds after they have successfully quit combat meaning that you would have to either take all of the agro yourself for 60 seconds (and not be able to call a pet because you're in combat) or else *already* have a second pet to take the agro which eats up your call levels so at best you could keep cycling a pair of level 35 pets into combat.

If you're in a PvP conflict you're screwed because the other player will *never* allow a CH to get out of the fray and change pets. It's a simple and well known strategy that you *never* fight a pet, you fight the master. The pet isn't a problem if the master goes down and the master is almost always a quicker kill than the pets. If you're in PvE there just isn't any advantage in cycling pets during combat versus cycling pets between conflicts or, revolutionary idea this one, healing them during combat.

The revolving door of pets scenario has been addressed by more than one limitation already in place. It is already impractical, bordering on impossible to do this to any advantage.

The 30 second calling limit is another arbitrary limitation which addresses *no* known problems.

Give me a shadowed forest into which I might disappear.
Give me a terrible foe and stack the odds against me.
Give me friends and creatures with whom I can share my adventures, my losses and my gains.
Let the gales blow and the world be torn asunder but don't make me stand alone against the tempest.

Cailid010

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:14 pm

#55

Castigula wrote:

Thunderheart wrote:

Utess wrote:

So far the system seems to be working well. However:

In my own home I can instantly pull out a pet/droid.

In a player city I can instantly pull out a pet/droid.

but

In a merchant tent in a player city I have to wait 30 seconds for my droid/pet to be pulled out. This seems somewhat silly since I am literally less than 3 feet away from being outside and able to pull my pets/droids instantly. It just seems a little silly to make the 30 second rule apply to merchant tents, or at least merchant tents placed in city limits.

Yep. And that will be gone by publish - - thanks for bringing that to our attention. That will be fixed by the next build on TC. The delay will still apply in the wilderness, but not in cities.

Th,

can you please once and for all, please post the reason behind the 30 sec timer? If you think they are because of exploits and griefs can you please list those exploits and griefs here. I believe in these posts thereare sufficient and unmittigated valid arguments to make the 30 sec timer not needed.

Literally hundreds of people have asked thunderheart for the reason. He has not replied to a single one of them. Probably because he doesn't have a reason. He has been shown that there is no excuse for the timer and he still refuses to reply about it.

Thunderhearts method of dealing with issues like this is to totally ignore the customers. He states what's going to happen and then ignores every reply asking for a reason.

Thunderheart has stated in the past that his job was to represent us to the devs but he never does so.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cailid - Ex Master Gunfighter / Ex Master Creature Handler / Novice Medic. Currently Swordsman / Ranger / Medic
Tab'Fren - TKM / Master Doctor
Med Vendor located in Crimson Solace on Dantooine at 4583, -5213

Daikatsu

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:15 pm

#56

Matsubaa wrote:

The 30 second calling limit is another arbitrary limitation which addresses *no* known problems.

It's not meant to address known problems, because there are no known problems with it. It is meant to give those who have Survival skills a bonus to having the skills that players without them don't.

If we do what you want, then everyone should be able to fire a gun as accurately as everyone else, everyone should be able to craft as well as everyone else, and we should have dance dance dance the night away as good as everyone else. At that point, slap some care bears on the front of the box cause you got a toddler's game.

Londer Dukrous
Elder Bounty Hunter/Teras Kasi Elder
Lost Souls, Corellia, Starsider

Aucob

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:25 pm

#57

Daikatsu, what you wrote makes no sense to me at all. If I'm wandering around in the wilderness fighting mobs, I've already camped and/or waited the 30 seconds to get my pets out. I'll take on whatever mobs I think I can. How would it be an advantage for me to suddenly "surprise" the mobs if I could pull out my pets for help (which I can't, because of the "no calling while agroed" rule)?

Furthermore, I've invested a whole bunch of skill points to master CH, just like a TKA or a Pistoleer or anyone else. Why shouldn't I be able to use that skill to fight on more difficult creatures? Why should it be harder for me to employ my combat strength (in the form of my pets) than any other fighting profession?

No, the only reason that the new 30 second rule exists is because of the mistaken belief that somehow, thebad, nasty ol' CH will surprise the poor, unsuspecting TKA with his incredible pets. That will happen about 5 seconds before the CH is sent to the cloning chamber and his pets take some vitality hits.

speardancer

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:32 pm

#58

Castigula wrote:

*edited for length*

I can start to answer it.... it's basicly so you don't start fighing someone, and the last moment before combat, they pull out their 2 rancors on you so they can beat on you, or simular situations.

***NO CH CAN PULL OUT 2 RANCORS ITS IMPOSSBILE, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN BALANCED.!!!
***so how is this diffrent from that player with the novice artisan tag hitting his macro to equip his comp armor and flamethrower, that btw hits for about 4x the damage that any ch creature does? the only diffrence is the player is more dangerous.

Why does it apply to vehicles too? one set of code... besides, if you have time to stop, open the datapad, call the vehicle, you can probably wait 30 seconds for it to come out. If you can't wait 30 seconds, for any reason other than being impaitent, you're probably doing what they don't want you to do.

Deal with it.

**the point is we do not ahve to "deal with it" there is no point o have this in place. btw why balance a game for PVP when 80% of the players do NOT pvp?

OK, let's flip this around.... what is it you have to do, that you can't wait 30 seconds?

Speardancer Master Artisian, Shipwright and 12pt Armorsmith *cancelation pending*
Garlyn, Master Tailor and 11pt Chef *Canceled, last day Apr. 24th*
Motas, Master Scout and Carbineer *Canceled, last day June 16th
*Waited 1 year for a combat fix, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt*

Aucob

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:34 pm

#59

Again, Daitaksu, your arguement makes no sense whatsoever. Right now, every CH needs a camp to pull out his pets. No other class needs a camp to pull out its weapons. With the new 30 second rule, every CH will have to wait 30 seconds to pull out his pets. No impact to other classes. If there were no 30 second rule, no CH would have to wait 30 seconds. This would affect the entire CH class uniformly. There is no differentiation betweennovice to master CH either way. In fact, if the CH were able to "surprise" you TKAs, life would be ever so slightly more dangerous for you, wouldn't it? How would that make SWG a care bear game?

You have no reasonable explanation for the 30 second rule and neither does anyone else.

Aucob

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:39 pm

#60

*sigh*

I really hate that argument Speardancer. Of course the CHers would be able todeal with the extra wait time. They would find something to do with the new timesink. Count the blades of grass, practice their taming mantras, enjoy the view of the sky since they've already been incapped, etc.

Let's put in another perspective. What if the shuttle times suddenly became 10 minutes and 30 seconds? Would people be able to handle the increased wait time? Sure. Is 30 seconds really that long to wait? Nope. The real question is: WHY? Why would I have to wait an extra 30 seconds for the shuttle? WHAT IS THE POINT OF ADDING MORE TIME?

Utess

Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:03 pm

#61

The reasoning behind the timer, as far as I can tell:

1) 30 seconds is approximately equal to how long it takes to drop acamp and pull out a pet/droid/vehicle. Slightly slower or faster depending on if its crated, pre-made,or you are crafting one

2) Camps become abandoned if the camp owner becomes engaged in combat. This is by design to fix some old exploits before the abandonment was added. Being able to pull a pet instantly would allow for those exploits to be used again(basically revoking to fix that made camps auto-abandon).

For the after combat timer, not sure why the 60 second timer is there though, =/

And for people saying that maybe the 30 seconds should apply to droids/pets but not vehicles, that would then let people keep their vehicles stored all the time except when riding them. That would remove 90% of the risk to losing a vehicle when in dangerous areas which is supposed to be one ofthe fewintended disadvantges to vehicles over mounts which can, to a limited extent, defend themselves.

Should the timer be reduced? Maybe

But thats, as I see it, the reasoning behind the existance of the timers in the first place.

And TH, by the merchant tent thing being fixed, does that mean this applies to all merchant tents and similar buildings, or simply anything that is placed in a player city zone?

________________________________

'Tess
- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor

speardancer

Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:07 pm

#62

Aucob wrote:
*sigh*
I really hate that argument Speardancer. Of course the CHers would be able to deal with the extra wait time. They would find something to do with the new timesink. Count the blades of grass, practice their taming mantras, enjoy the view of the sky since they've already been incapped, etc.
Let's put in another perspective. What if the shuttle times suddenly became 10 minutes and 30 seconds? Would people be able to handle the increased wait time? Sure. Is 30 seconds really that long to wait? Nope. The real question is: WHY? Why would I have to wait an extra 30 seconds for the shuttle? WHAT IS THE POINT OF ADDING MORE TIME?

Well, let's see... scout is a requirement for CH, so a CH can still pop up a camp, call creatures and then disband the camp (30 sec delay does not count in a camp) in about 30 seconds. CH's have no problem there. Might even save a CH time, ever spend time running around trying to place a camp? So, pretty much this means that only non-scouts have no option but to deal with the 30 second delay. This means someone who would normaly have no ablility to pull out a mount/vehicle will be able to. And they have to wait only 30 seconds, instead of running back to a town in order to recall their pet/vehicle, which normaly takes much longer than 30 seconds.

/mount soapbox
And maybe it's just a personal point of view, but it's 30 seconds. not 30 minutes, not 5 minutes. 30 seconds. And barring a bad run with vehicles auto-storing, I might do it once, maybe twice a night. One whole minute of my time. It's nothing. Call it gaining perspective with age, but it's nothing. If you can't deal with waiting 30 seconds (usualy waste more time than that chatting with guildies) you're either trying to do what it's supposed to prevent, or you just need to relax.
/dismount soapbox

Speardancer Master Artisian, Shipwright and 12pt Armorsmith *cancelation pending*
Garlyn, Master Tailor and 11pt Chef *Canceled, last day Apr. 24th*
Motas, Master Scout and Carbineer *Canceled, last day June 16th
*Waited 1 year for a combat fix, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt*

GarVa

Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:08 pm

#63

I think the point their trying to make really is... before you could not do it at all... now you can.. but you have to wait a little bit or use a camp. Leaves some of the usefulness of camps as well as improving the ability to call vehicles/pets/droids without one (which did not exist before)

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Castigula

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 137

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:36 pm Post subject:

speardancer wrote:

Castigula wrote:

*edited for length*

I can start to answer it.... it's basicly so you don't start fighing someone, and the last moment before combat, they pull out their 2 rancors on you so they can beat on you, or simular situations.

***NO CH CAN PULL OUT 2 RANCORS ITS IMPOSSBILE, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN BALANCED.!!!

***so how is this diffrent from that player with the novice artisan tag hitting his macro to equip his comp armor and flamethrower, that btw hits for about 4x the damage that any ch creature does? the only diffrence is the player is more dangerous.

Why does it apply to vehicles too? one set of code... besides, if you have time to stop, open the datapad, call the vehicle, you can probably wait 30 seconds for it to come out. If you can't wait 30 seconds, for any reason other than being impaitent, you're probably doing what they don't want you to do.

Deal with it.

**the point is we do not ahve to "deal with it" there is no point o have this in place. btw why balance a game for PVP when 80% of the players do NOT pvp?

OK, let's flip this around.... what is it you have to do, that you can't wait 30 seconds?

its not just 30 secs, its 30 secs per pet, that would be about 60 secs or 90 secs depending on combination of pets I am using, every time they auto store or every time I begin a battle. the question really isn't why I cant wait, But WHY am I forced to wait? why are you not forced to wait to switch between rifles or pistols or what ever you happen to have. why can you put on a 80% composite armor suite in about 2 secs, but I must wait 60 secs to use my weapons. that is indeed the underlying question WHY? not one person not even garva has managed to answer that. in order to be fair make it apply to every person and every weapon and every change of clothes or armor. then it'd be fair. But this just a nerf hidden in a box of chocolates, " hey you dont need to use a camp to call apet, but you have to wait 30 secs for each pet."

Casti
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uofwi92

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 107

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

GarVa wrote:
I think the point their trying to make really is... before you could not do it at all... now you can.. but you have to wait a little bit or use a camp. Leaves some of the usefulness of camps as well as improving the ability to call vehicles/pets/droids without one (which did not exist before)

But WHY the delay? PLEASE, just tell us WHY I have to wait 90 seconds after combat to call out a vehicle. What are you trying to prevent? What are you trying to "fix" or "help"? Can't you at least make the 60 second and 30 second delay run concurrently? Can't the delay times be reduced for each? The time spent waiting for stuff is just really starting to get irritating, and as far as we can tell, it serves no purpose. If you let us know what the purpose is, and if it's valid, we'll let it go... /sigh

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speardancer

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 928

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject:

Castigula wrote:its not just 30 secs, its 30 secs per pet, that would be about 60 secs or 90 secs depending on combination of pets I am using, every time they auto store or every time I begin a battle. the question really isn't why I cant wait, But WHY am I forced to wait? why are you not forced to wait to switch between rifles or pistols or what ever you happen to have. why can you put on a 80% composite armor suite in about 2 secs, but I must wait 60 secs to use my weapons. that is indeed the underlying question WHY? not one person not even garva has managed to answer that. in order to be fair make it apply to every person and every weapon and every change of clothes or armor. then it'd be fair. But this just a nerf hidden in a box of chocolates, " hey you dont need to use a camp to call apet, but you have to wait 30 secs for each pet."

Hmmm, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I missed something, since am not extremely familiar with CH, are you sure you have to wait to pull out pet #2 until after pet #1 is out? Can't you just call pet #1, then while you're waiting, call pet #2?

And once again... scout is a requirement for CH. You're making yourself wait if you don't use a camp, you don't suffer the 30 second penatly if you pop up a camp. It's not like you're using up skill points that would go elsewhere just to get a camp, you've got the skills.

And on a side note... I would have no problem with "equip times" for armors and weapons personaly, because you're right, it can be abused. But that's another debate.

Speardancer Master Artisian, Shipwright and 12pt Armorsmith *cancelation pending*
Garlyn, Master Tailor and 11pt Chef *Canceled, last day Apr. 24th*
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*Waited 1 year for a combat fix, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt*

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Lynisx

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 104

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject:

Not sure if this was mentioned, so forgive me for reposting if it has.

If you are in a city, or camp, and go into combat, you must STILL wait the 60 seconds after combat is overbefore you can call it out, IMO there shouldn't be this restriction, and I presume it's a bug.

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vonbloodworth

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 535

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject:

But WHY the delay? PLEASE, just tell us WHY I have to wait 90 seconds after combat to call out a vehicle. What are you trying to prevent? What are you trying to "fix" or "help"? Can't you at least make the 60 second and 30 second delay run concurrently? Can't the delay times be reduced for each? The time spent waiting for stuff is just really starting to get irritating, and as far as we can tell, it serves no purpose. If you let us know what the purpose is, and if it's valid, we'll let it go... /sigh

BECOUSE THEY DONT WANT YOU PULLING THEM OUT OF YOUR ASS and surprising somone with the dam pets that are killing this game.they dont want people pulling them out AFTER you accept a duel..or...engaging in any type of combat...and just POPING THEM OUT. why dont you get this?

you have made 10 posts about this and it has been explanied...

Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
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uofwi92

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 107

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject:

vonbloodworth wrote:
But WHY the delay? PLEASE, just tell us WHY I have to wait 90 seconds after combat to call out a vehicle. What are you trying to prevent? What are you trying to "fix" or "help"? Can't you at least make the 60 second and 30 second delay run concurrently? Can't the delay times be reduced for each? The time spent waiting for stuff is just really starting to get irritating, and as far as we can tell, it serves no purpose. If you let us know what the purpose is, and if it's valid, we'll let it go... /sigh

BECOUSE THEY DONT WANT YOU PULLING THEM OUT OF YOUR ASS and surprising somone with the dam pets that are killing this game.they dont want people pulling them out AFTER you accept a duel..or...engaging in any type of combat...and just POPING THEM OUT. why dont you get this?

you have made 10 posts about this and it has been explanied...

YOU ARE AN UTTER RETARD.

Which part of "vehicle" is spelled remotely similarly to "pet"?

Besides, dumb@$$, after you accept a duel challenge, or are engaged in any combat, you can't pull pets out, period. That's not what this post is about at all.

So, please, shut the eff up and stop showing off your stupidity. And go back to school to learn how to spell and think critically, while you're at it.

S'ulli - Teräs Käsi Master / Master Doc
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Castigula

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 137

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject:

vonbloodworth wrote:
But WHY the delay? PLEASE, just tell us WHY I have to wait 90 seconds after combat to call out a vehicle. What are you trying to prevent? What are you trying to "fix" or "help"? Can't you at least make the 60 second and 30 second delay run concurrently? Can't the delay times be reduced for each? The time spent waiting for stuff is just really starting to get irritating, and as far as we can tell, it serves no purpose. If you let us know what the purpose is, and if it's valid, we'll let it go... /sigh

BECOUSE THEY DONT WANT YOU PULLING THEM OUT OF YOUR ASS and surprising somone with the dam pets that are killing this game.they dont want people pulling them out AFTER you accept a duel..or...engaging in any type of combat...and just POPING THEM OUT. why dont you get this?

you have made 10 posts about this and it has been explanied...

Please dont pollute this post with your utter ignorance and stupidity.

fact #1, if you are in combat you can NOT call your pet. but you can SURPRISE someone by macroing on your comp armor and flamethrower., why dontYOU get this?

Fact #2 80% of the people do NOT pvp so why balance the game for it???why dont YOU get this either?

pets are no where near killing this game, this is a thing of the past, pets have been over nerfed, so move past 3 months ago and get into the present, research before posting such anabsurd statement.

and finally NO it has NOT been explained why we need a 30 sec timer.

and one more thing because is spelled B E C A U S E not becouse, if you are going to put something caps, spell it right.

thank you now move along and make room for intelligent posts.

Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

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vonbloodworth

Joined: 22 Sep 2022
Posts: 535

Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject:

gezzzz....

how you gona try and say your all about your ride now....

any way yes your right its not about your post....its about testing....not wining and complaning....you keep trying to say "its about my vehicle" and its not...its about your pets...

dont care about my spelling on the forums...and i think more criticly than you it seems...

your answer has been given about 20 times in a bunch of difrient posts...including the one that discused this change...look it up.

Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
Mayor/guild master

Pikeman, Polition, Merchant,Master Artisan
***** Im easy to talk to once people get to know me, but holding my personal audiences on a throne of bloody skulls tends to put them off at first. *****

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vonbloodworth

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:25 pm

#64

ok...now i see im geting confused by the twin wookies...

sorry to the one whos conserned by about his ride...*waves his hand in his own face* "thats not the wookie i was talking about" lol

[hr]

Please dont pollute this post with your utter ignorance and stupidity.

fact #1, if you are in combat you can NOT call your pet. but you can SURPRISE someone by macroing on your comp armor and flamethrower., why dont YOU get this?

Fact #2 80% of the people do NOT pvp so why balance the game for it???why dont YOU get this either?

pets are no where near killing this game, this is a thing of the past, pets have been over nerfed, so move past 3 months ago and get into the present, research before posting such an absurd statement.

and finally NO it has NOT been explained why we need a 30 sec timer.

and one more thing because is spelled B E C A U S E not becouse, if you are going to put something caps, spell it right.

thank you now move along and make room for intelligent posts.

you know...if you talked like that to me in real life id smack the cheese burger.../sigh...nevr mind...moving on..

you cant POSABLY belive that comparing guns and armor is the same as pulling a 10k HAM creatur is the same?...maby you can...yes...pets are killing the game...just not a sever as they were...why pets were put before droids in THIS game are byond me....we see one guy that had a pet...(in a steel cage) and we get this....we see 2000 DROIDS in every sine and we get....pets...over nurfed hell...should be removed...there is a larger franchise that will let you "call" all the pets you want...and you dont need a camp...just a little ball..

but yes the timer is for reasions of combat...i would think you would be gratefull...you dont HAVE to have a camp now...but if you use a camp..POOF your pet...where ever it comes from is there...why is this a problem for you? your a nice grown up ch...WITH scout!...so tell me....what was intelegnt in your post?

as for vehicals..they dont want you to be able to instantly pull a ride out and run off...if you have it out in the first place you run the risk of it geting distroyed,thus the pay off.if you dont have it out...enter combat...you cant poof it out and run while your DOT or PET lol...finishes the job...this was explaned in a older post before this was even putinto this patch...

Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
Mayor/guild master

Pikeman, Polition, Merchant,Master Artisan
***** Im easy to talk to once people get to know me, but holding my personal audiences on a throne of bloody skulls tends to put them off at first. *****

vonbloodworth

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:32 pm

#65

I figure the reason is so that there's an advantage to having scout skills and not have a skillset and tree become immediately useless by player reckoning.

and this guy hit it right on.

Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
Mayor/guild master

Pikeman, Polition, Merchant,Master Artisan
***** Im easy to talk to once people get to know me, but holding my personal audiences on a throne of bloody skulls tends to put them off at first. *****

Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IT 7-8: Camp Restrictions Removed