Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IT 7-8: Camp Restrictions Removed

Castigula
Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:00 am
#40






SWG-Runesabre wrote:






Just adds MORE downtime of which this gam eis already filled to the brim with.. and i was under the impression SWG was against downtime.






Pets, droids, mounts and vehicles work just like before inside camps, cities or near player residence. The only difference is when you attempt to call a pet, droid, mountor vehicle outside of those areas. Whereas before you couldn't call them at all, now, there will be a time delay to call them to allow you to call those items wherever you wish without the previous stipulations. It's still advantageous to have a Scout with you if you want to call your pets, droids, vehicles or mounts out quicker.





The question is why put the delay in? why is it needed? I keep hearing that these are put in to avoid exploits and greifs, yet no one can name these exploits and griefs. Please list them for me. here are some simple facts you might not be aware of, in relation to creature calling;


1- You can NOT call a pet if you are aggroed or in engaged in combat.
2- You can NOT store a pet if you are agroed or engaged in combat.
3-You can NOT store a pet till 60 secs AFTER combat is over.
so why do we need a 30 sec timer?why?

Facts about PVP

1- About 80% of the people do NOT pvp.
2- Most PVP happens in cities where there are no restrictions? where are the exploits and griefs?

what is the diffrence between a CH pulling out a pet before combat and a person running around with a novice artisan title hitting one macro key, then in about 1 sec, equipping a full set of composite armor and a flamethrower? do you plan to put a stop to that also?

My point is there is no need for a 30 sec timer, none. Please remove it entirely.



Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

- I support additional character slots!. You can too

BigLoopy
Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:29 am
#41

I dont mean this as a falme in any way.. just a response to your points.. they are well taken...


1- You can NOT call a pet if you are aggroed or in engaged in combat.
/peace; Call pet


2- You can NOT store a pet if you are agroed or engaged in combat.
/peace; Call pet


3-You can NOT store a pet till 60 secs AFTER combat is over.
so why do we need a 30 sec timer?why?

Agreed on this one...

Castigula
Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:37 am
#42






BigLoopy wrote:

I dont mean this as a falme in any way.. just a response to your points.. they are well taken...


1- You can NOT call a pet if you are aggroed or in engaged in combat.
/peace; Call pet

****this doesnt work, /peace doesnt always get you out of agro, unless you run away out of range.


2- You can NOT store a pet if you are agroed or engaged in combat.
/peace; Call pet

**see above.


3-You can NOT store a pet till 60 secs AFTER combat is over.
so why do we need a 30 sec timer?why?

Agreed on this one...










Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

- I support additional character slots!. You can too

Castigula
Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:51 am
#43






MonGiovanni wrote:





uofwi92 wrote:


OK, I get it. This is a good thing. But why do we have to wait SO LONG? Just please answer that question. Why 90 seconds after combat? Why?





I'm curious as to why you would call a pet after combat? The 60 second delay to call pets after combat has been in the game long before Publish 7. So, again, there is no disadvantages to this change, it is all a positive change to us from where the game is at right now.







**AGAIN you are wrong. there is an added disadvantage, because of the 60 timer and other ch restrictions there is no need, or reason what so ever to implement a 30 sec timer. example


a master ch waits 60 secs after combat, then calls pet #1, 30 secs, calls pet #2 30 secs, calls pet #3 30 secs...hmmm


so you've waited 2 mins and 30 secs. how long does it take you to put on your armor and flamethrower, 2 secs. If its not such a big deal then maybe they should implement this change to all the combat classes. I guarantee if they do that you'd be the first to cry bloody murder.




Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

- I support additional character slots!. You can too

Cailid010
Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:50 am
#44

Thunderheart, you still haven't given any reason for that 30 second delay other than some fictional 'exploit'.


If there is such an exploit than why is the 30 second timer removed for calling in towns?



It's been shown numerous times that no such exploit exists but you refuse to comment on this or even discuss it with us. No one wants this 30 second timer to call and there is no reason to have it.






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cailid - Ex Master Gunfighter / Ex Master Creature Handler / Novice Medic. Currently Swordsman / Ranger / Medic
Tab'Fren - TKM / Master Doctor
Med Vendor located in Crimson Solace on Dantooine at 4583, -5213
Naquiel
Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:33 am
#45

Yes castigula, you might take that long to call a pet, but you forget one thing. Ch have the abillity to call a camp to bypass that problem, or did you forget that little bit of info. The restrictions are for the ones that never learned any scouting skills.


You see many ppl are smarter than you think, and the devs know this. For example:


1. You dont have a pet and you get argoed by a mob. You have 3 choices:


A. You fight the mob.


B. You run from the mob. or


C. Make sure your pet was out in the first place.


Most ppl will already have their pet with them befor leaving the city/home. If they didnt or the pet decited to auto store on them they would now stop and recall their pet befor moving on.


2. Your walking along and your argoed by a mob but you do have your pet out. again you have 3 choices:


A. You fight the mob with the pet you have. You might win or lose depending on the mob.


B. You might sacrifice your pet letting you run for your life. or


C. You should of made sure you had the right pet out at the time for what you needed.


Again, most ppl will be smart enough to know what pet they need for out on the hunting field. Since most CH have the abillty to call a camp, time restrictions can be bypassed (well the time to call a pet/vehical). Plus most ppl know how to find safe spots out in the field to call a camp/pet/vehical without the fear of being attacked by a mob.


But for the few ppl that dont have scouting skills, they will have to put up with the timers. Its a small wait to call a vehical/pet when needed.


So lets stop saying that the timers will kill your gaming habit. The devs know that ppl will find ways around the timer problem (i just gave some hints above, if you didnt know them). And this will only really be a problem for ppl without scout skills.





____________________________________________

From the launch of the game we came. Moving quickly to unlock the secrets. Living many battles to reach the the goal of unlocking a Jedi. For the few who complain, will eventuly get their goal. No one has ever truly known the path to getting a Jedi........untill now.
Naquiel
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:01 am
#46

And now for pvp and the timers. Well the timers are needed.


Example:


You about to fight, you start to attack a fellow and suddenly he pops out a pet and then attacks you. Do you find this fair on not having a timer? I think so. Without the timer Ch would be uber once again and pop out any pet they wanted right befor they where attacked or flip flop a fresh pet when needed in the heat of battle (a good reason to have a timer for pets and the wait for battles).


Another example:


You out in the hunting field and you find a mob that you want to attack. So you have time to do 3 things:


1. Call a pet or a different pet.


2. Deside the mob is to big and you call a vehical to get past the mob. or


3. Stick whit what you got.


Now if its a big mob and you need many pets, it would be useful for a camp to call all the pets, but at this point you still had to take the time to plan out you battle stratagy to kill the mob anyway so you pretty much didnt lose much time. And affter the battle you move along, and after the storage timer is done you have a few choices there to.


1. You could store your pets on the move (i do this alot with my pets when i dont need them).


2. You could keep your pets out so you dont have to recall them (wow, no time wait). or


3. You could just store the pets and just move on.


Again there is ways past the timer or ways to occupy the time when the timer is ticking. Most of the time when your going for pvp battles, most CH will not be cought dead without their pets by their side when entering the battle field in the first place.


So if you have any full detail on why the timers are not needed, please let us here know. I would love to hear them.





____________________________________________

From the launch of the game we came. Moving quickly to unlock the secrets. Living many battles to reach the the goal of unlocking a Jedi. For the few who complain, will eventuly get their goal. No one has ever truly known the path to getting a Jedi........untill now.
Castigula
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:12 am
#47






Naquiel wrote:

Yes castigula, you might take that long to call a pet, but you forget one thing. Ch have the abillity to call a camp to bypass that problem, or did you forget that little bit of info. The restrictions are for the ones that never learned any scouting skills.


***I see you know noting of CH. I did not forget that we can can call a camp, lol,Yes we have the ability to set up a camp, and yet the majority of ch do not want the camp or timer restriction there is no need for either one. can you tell me why I need a camp to call a pet or why I need a timer? didnt think so.


Here is a history lesson for you, do you know why the restrictions where put in, in the first place? It was to stop CH's specificly from puilling pets out anywhere, thats the main reason. Now in the present CHs have been balanced, even their creatures have been balanced. there is no reason at all for this restriction, most people are smart enough to realize this.


You see many ppl are smarter than you think, and the devs know this. For example:


1. You dont have a pet and you get argoed by a mob. You have 3 choices:


A. You fight the mob.


***My pet is my weapon, if it autostores, or if its too convinient to constantly deploy a camp to get them back or to constantly wait 30 secs(per pet) to get them back this becomes a non option. again most people are smart enough to realize this point.


B. You run from the mob. or


**this is sad that this is our only viable option.


C. Make sure your pet was out in the first place.


***it'd be great if they didnt auto store, or if they'd follow you consistently. most people are smart enough to realize this has been an ongoing problem for a very long time with no end in site.


Most ppl will already have their pet with them befor leaving the city/home. If they didnt or the pet decited to auto store on them they would now stop and recall their pet befor moving on.


Yes, but your pet most of the time gets stuck at a server boundary, auto stores or just stops moving. it is more of a hassle to have your pet with all these bugs, the only thing to do is have no restrictions so I can call my pet at will, of coarse leaving the current balances in place as the combat timer. with the current balances in place there is NO reason for timers or camps. On an average day from my home in bestine area to bestine city my pet will autostore any where from 1 to 11 times. thats 11 camps, thats 11 times you need to be away from other buildings, or with the new timer thats 330 secs.



2. Your walking along and your argoed by a mob but you do have your pet out. again you have 3 choices:


A. You fight the mob with the pet you have. You might win or lose depending on the mob.


B. You might sacrifice your pet letting you run for your life. or


C. You should of made sure you had the right pet out at the time for what you needed.


Again, most ppl will be smart enough to know what pet they need for out on the hunting field. Since most CH have the abillty to call a camp, time restrictions can be bypassed (well the time to call a pet/vehical). Plus most ppl know how to find safe spots out in the field to call a camp/pet/vehical without the fear of being attacked by a mob.


**again you need to find the "right" spot to call a camp. again you know nothing about ch. If you have a pet out and it auto stores, you run away out of range of agro, wait 60 secs for cbt timer to expire, or find a spot that allows for a camp, then deploy camp. either way you MUST wait the 60 secs to expire. then call your pet and try again, would you feel so at ease with it if your rifle or pistol would auto store on you, and you had to jump through hoops to get it back, didnt think so.


Most people are smart enough to realize that as it is right now ch do not need ANOTHER time sink or restrictions on pet calling. we have been balanced and nerfed and balanced again to prevent exploits and griefs. the time has come to stop these anoying changes, but I guess you knew that since most people are smart enought to realize that as well.


But for the few ppl that dont have scouting skills, they will have to put up with the timers. Its a small wait to call a vehical/pet when needed.


**Again why do we have to wait, its not needed. an added time sink for no reason, I Still have yet to see the justification for this restriction.


So lets stop saying that the timers will kill your gaming habit. The devs know that ppl will find ways around the timer problem (i just gave some hints above, if you didnt know them). And this will only really be a problem for ppl without scout skills.




You obviously from your post are not a ch, your scenarios or "hints" are good on paper but in the "real" world of swg, leave alot to be desired and hit far from the truth, I hope that most people are smart enough to see that.








Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

- I support additional character slots!. You can too

Castigula
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:31 am
#48






Naquiel wrote:

And now for pvp and the timers. Well the timers are needed.


Example:


You about to fight, you start to attack a fellow and suddenly he pops out a pet and then attacks you. Do you find this fair on not having a timer? I think so. Without the timer Ch would be uber once again and pop out any pet they wanted right befor they where attacked or flip flop a fresh pet when needed in the heat of battle (a good reason to have a timer for pets and the wait for battles).



LOL, so how about a guy in pvp with a cdef or lower level pistol or weapon and a novice artisan tag come up to you to fight, at the hit of ONE button on about 1.2 secs the pvp'r, equips all his composite armor plus a flamethrower or other advanced weapon? how is this drifferent? hmmm. so lets put the cbt timer on this as well.


P.S. th ch can NOT be uber, all pets have been nerfed! and guess what MOST weapons out damage a ch pet by a great deal.


Another example:


You out in the hunting field and you find a mob that you want to attack. So you have time to do 3 things: **we could do these with your weapons also


1. Call a pet or a different pet.


***Equip a weapon or diffrent weapon.


2. Deside the mob is to big and you call a vehical to get past the mob. or


3. Stick whit what you got.


Now if its a big mob and you need many pets, it would be useful for a camp to call all the pets, but at this point you still had to take the time to plan out you battle stratagy to kill the mob anyway so you pretty much didnt lose much time. And affter the battle you move along, and after the storage timer is done you have a few choices there to.


**thats true, you can decide if you got the right weapon depending on mobs or npc resists, if not deploy a camp and select a diffrent weapon.


or you can back away and select the weapon and wait 30 secs for it to equip.


1. You could store your pets on the move (i do this alot with my pets when i dont need them).



2. You could keep your pets out so you dont have to recall them (wow, no time wait). or


***you can keep that specific gun out (wow and pray that they dont auto store, because if they do thats a major time wait.)


3. You could just store the pets and just move on.


**you could store your weapon and move on.


**so if we are going to keep it (the timer) for ch lets apply it to all cbt professions. now it doesnt sound fair does it?


Again there is ways past the timer or ways to occupy the time when the timer is ticking. Most of the time when your going for pvp battles, most CH will not be cought dead without their pets by their side when entering the battle field in the first place.


So if you have any full detail on why the timers are not needed, please let us here know. I would love to hear them.


I do, read everything I posted it will tell you why not.








Casti
Wookie Miner, Master Creature Handler, Master Bounty Hunter, X-Master Swordsman,
X-Master Pistoleer,X-master Scout
And the last line of defense against Nerf whiners

- I support additional character slots!. You can too

UnitedTamerOfTatooine
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:39 am
#49


SWG-Runesabre wrote:

Just adds MORE downtime of which this gam eis already filled to the brim with.. and i was under the impression SWG was against downtime.

Pets, droids, mounts and vehicles work just like before inside camps, cities or near player residence. The only difference is when you attempt to call a pet, droid, mount or vehicle outside of those areas. Whereas before you couldn't call them at all, now, there will be a time delay to call them to allow you to call those items wherever you wish without the previous stipulations. It's still advantageous to have a Scout with you if you want to call your pets, droids, vehicles or mounts out quicker.





Runesabre,

The problem is that things HAVE changed!! The new 60 seconds timer after combat nulifies your comment that things are (as they have always been) within city limits or in camps.

With the new 60 second timer players have to wait 60 seconds before they can call a pet no matter where they are. If a players ends combat and they are in a city or camp, then there is a 60 seconds waiting period. If a player ends combat and they are out in the wilderness, there is a 60 + 30 = 90 seconds delay before they can call and have a pet appear.

This is TOTALLY different than how the game functions under Publish 6.

Plus, since Publish 6, pets have been screwed up to a point where it is very frustrating to even be a Creature Handler and use pets.
AzramX
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:31 am
#50


This is the way I see it.. The SWG community asked for camp restrictions to be lifted as they do not apply to the new changes in the game, Hense pets, droids, vehicles, mounts. Many people gave good ideas how to make camps usefull after removal of restrictions, like additional mods for healing and to heal BF in a camp with or without an entertainer and to have them stay up for a time limit after you enter combat so you have a chance to sustain it after you get back to it but now if you get attacked the camp becomes useless as always. I can see by the actions of the Dev team that you guys really did not want to even give us this Camp restriction release, hense the absurd 60 second timer after combat.. Ok fine that is something tolerable, but the 30 second timer for the item you requested (Pet,droid,speeder,mount) to appear is just one thing and one thing only, It is meant to be a grief by the developers to give us what we want but to make it so troublesome and inconvenient that most will just use camps. You made this clear in your post by stating that it would be much quicker to pull them out with a camp.. This makes no sense and just solidifies the economic reasoning behind most of the changes in the game. Most people who use camps make them so there is no economical use for camps period. There should be No timer on calling an item but a timer on storing said Item is acceptable That solves the problem. Why is that so hard for you guys to see?
SioBabble
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:53 am
#51

Runesaber,


I fail to understand why any of these restrictions exist, aside from the no calling in combat restriction and the 60 second return of the pet to the datapad restriction. Both of these address the "cycling pets" issue.


The fact is, this game has become MORE buggy and unpredictable since the last publish. Pets and vehicles are storing on their own, at random, in and out of combat. All manner of pets (creature, faction, droid) now are right on top of you when you call them, something that was alledgedly addressed in the patch last week but obviously wasn't teseted before going live, because the problem persists.


If some player's armor magically vanished in the middle of a PvP fight, you'd never hear the end of it. Why is it that these issue, along with pet pathing bugs that have persisted since beta have not been addressed, while you CONTINUE to create new reasons for me to cancel my account?


The Quality Control in this project is absolutely astounding in its amateurishness. Is anyone in charge there? Does anyone pay any attention to quality?


Are there any adults in charge at SWG?






Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


wolfsheim
Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:44 pm
#52

Thanks for making this change. I'm really not sure why people are bitching about it.... since it just makes it easier to bring out a vehicle if it autostores. But I do think the timer should be shortened if possible. If not.... its still better than what we had before...so thanks.
Page 4 of 10