Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
Akel
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:58 am
#625
I think the path to force sensitivity should be mysterious and not known (I DID NOT SAY RANDOM) I said mysterious...
There should not be a set, do A B and C for everyone that is exactly the same an known to everyone... otherwise it will just get posted here and everyone will immediately QUESTGRIND instead of HOLOGRIND.
There should be some things that must be done, that may be known, and some that are not known... like perhaps as it was speculated in the beginning of the game before the holos...
1. Complete a theme park
2. Reach a certain rank in your faction
3. Complete certain questions w/in the game that are hard and time consuming
4. Earn a certain number of badges of differing types
5. Meet a Jedi and speak to him or group with him.
6. Visit certain landmarks such as forceshrines or temples
7. Obtain a certain items or items.
Do not advertise what these things are or give any hint, but make them things that people if thinking about it would probably try to become a Jedi, for instance I ran the quests at the imperial prison and those on dantooine before I knew of holocrons thinking that might get me there. I visited the force crystal caves and all the possible jedi ruins. I became a colonel in my faction, I did several theme parks, participated in a battlefield engagement. I went back to visit Vader and the Emperor to see if they would give me a hint.
there are many things that would allow people to play the game and experience it w/o it being boring or frustrating like grinding professions.
then once all that is completed have something happen to to them that makes them believe they may be aware of the force... Perhaps a hint that what they are looking for is on a particular planet... "You feel the urge to visit, Dathomir". Perhaps there is a random spawn that if that particular person nears it will come up... a blue glowy jedi, Yoda, some Npc that will talk to you and start to give you a long series of quests to get to initiate.
roganemor
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:58 am
#626
It should be unknown. It was suppose to be unknown until they let the secret out with the holocrons.
Personally I really liked the theory (before the first unlock) that you had to achieve a certain amount of hidden experience by doing different in-game things. Like visiting cities, battlefieldsand POI's. Getting badges, mastering professions, achieveing faction ranks, using the various game systems, etc..
Thus every time you did something you gained points and eventually you would unlock. You can make the FS quests a known quantity once you unlocked your FS based on the above.
This would make it a slow process but everyone would have the ability to unlock without grinding. Grinders could still grind though and gain those hidden points faster, but still need to do other things other than grinding to unlock. (i.e., grinding all 32 would not give you enough points to unlock)
Before anyone know about the hologrind I visited every city and POI; did the theme parks, etc and it was actually fun to do. That would provide some mystery to the process but make it known at the same time.
TheRealXur
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:03 pm
#627
Random makes a lot more sense, had SOE not made the galactic mistake of telling everyone how to achive Jedi several months ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now, where PvP is even more unbalanced, the economy is still in ruins and the only goal to the game is to get a glowstick.
But then, maybe I missed the point of the game, I thought it was a war and everyone was trying to win something, apparently it's a grind where everyone gets to be a jedi and duel in theed, my bad.
Suggestion, rename the game.. Starwars Galaxies: Jedi Wars
But then, maybe I missed the point of the game, I thought it was a war and everyone was trying to win something, apparently it's a grind where everyone gets to be a jedi and duel in theed, my bad.
Suggestion, rename the game.. Starwars Galaxies: Jedi Wars
DarthMime
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:31 pm
#628
Forgive me, I only got through three pages of posts. I don't assume this one will get read, but just in case, here it goes:
I've recently started a new character on Bloodfin with the intent of trying out aspects of the game I never got around to with my old Lowca character before I got fed up and took a four-month hiatus. It's been quite the blast. Many of the horrific gameplay bugs have been corrected, and I'm enjoying PvE combat much more now that I'm trying the melee route (just fits my playstyle better, I suppose). Most importantly, however, have been the theme parks and quests. They actually come very close to being CONTENT! What a surprise! (yes, that was a not-so-subtle dig at the design team. You folks still have a ton of re-thinking to do about making this game fun for everyone) I really enjoyed the Jabba park, and the Imperial park, and have gotten a big kick out of doing the odd NPC-based quests and such.
To that end, the gaining of Force Sensitivity should be completely and utterly quest based. More importantly, they should be instanced quests. By which I mean, they are individually granted, and individually accessible. Spawn camping by advanced players is one of the most frustrating griefs you can experience in the current game, and the FS quest should hopefully avoid that by allowing FS quests to be individually keyed. Everyone talks about how once you set the system, as soon as one person knows it, everyone will know it. Well, if the quests are keyed off of individuals, and everyone knows how to begin the quest, but the quest is different for each individual than you have, to a certain extent, solved that problem.
A specific implementation that I can imagine would go something like this:
1. Any character can begin their Force Sensitivity quest once they have mastered a profession. Any profession would be my choice, but an advanced profession might be a better way of restricting things. This gives all players a clear goal, no obnoxious holo-grinding mystery, and is something that most players will achieve (who hasn't mastered at least one advanced profession in their time?)
2. Once you've attained this achievement, you get a holomail from some unknown person asking you to meet them at some location in the galaxy. You go to meet them, and they start you on your route by pointing you to a location, etc. That location is an individually instanced "mini-theme park" which is tailored to whatever profession you unlocked the quest start by mastering. Successfully completing the quest grants you another clue, which leads you to the next mini-theme park or quest objective, which eventually will lead you to becoming force sensitive.
3. You can fail to complete the initial mini-theme park! This is very important. Maybe you go in and die, or fail the initial test or whatever. You go back to the mysterious person, and they tell you you're "obviously" not ready, and to come back when you've learned more about life or whatever. Then just kick in a timer for a couple of weeks, after which the NPC will be helpful again, and point you to a new location to try your first step. It's artificial, sure, but so is holo-grinding, and years of study have shown that people appreciate a reward much more when there is actually risk involved -- when they've got something to lose. In this case, that's just a bit of time before they can try again, but still, I can just imagine the shouts of "Woot! I finally completed <quest>! I can take FS skills now!".
That's just one idea. But look at what you did with the Krayt Dragon skull quest, or the Hero of Tatooine quest, or even the Jabba theme park. You have the ability to build good, interesting content, and you have shown (with the corvette mission) that you have the ability to create instanced quests. So come up with the same for force sensitivity. This probably wasn't that helpful, I suppose, but you did ask.
Just remember: The worst part of the game is the environment you've created where the easiest way to get to the point you can actually have fun with content is to grind, grind, grind away for money, or experience, or whatever. This is your chance to fix that, because EVERYONE will want to gain force sensitivity. If you make it impossible to grind and fun to do, maybe it will turn away the players whose only goal is power-gaming, and provide the other 80% of your playerbase with a very fun and interesting character objective.
One last note: You've let the Jedi out of the bag. At this point, you have an obligation to let every player who wants to try it out have the opportunity --through whatever mechanism you implement -- to become Force Sensitive and begin the path to being a Jedi. That doesn't mean becoming a Jedi shouldn't be difficult, merely that because of the actions you've taken in modifying game design to make Jedi commonplace and obvious that you cannot and must not deny other players to pursue that path by choice, rather than blind luck. Don't make the mistake of implementing some kind of mini-grind version of the previous mastery path. The door which opens on the path of Force Sensitivity should not be hidden from any player, but the path they must follow afterwards should be difficult, interesting, and rewarding.
Thanks for listening (if you did)
Darthmime
Edin Ice -- Bloodfin
Koso Kaszmort -- Lowca
Kaszbac -- Lowca (deceased)
CGB
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:43 pm
#630
The path should be unknown, there are too many people waiting for pub. 10. Unknown= Star Wars continuity at the time SWG takes place, this can NOT b denied!
BobaFleck
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:08 pm
#631
Well, my two cents is destined to get lost in "page 15 hell." So, a Krahbu walks into a bar in Mos Eisley. The Jawa bartender says, "E du biwa enku spol!" This roughly translates into "Hey buddy, why the long face?" but loses something outside of the original Jawa.
But seriously, here's the problem with "mysterious."
People will figure it out. Then, they will tell their friends. Their friends will post it on the Internet.
Basically, no matter WHAT you make the "mysterious" path, it will be figured out.
Cases in point:
- City day: 30 minutes until caps were reached. Everywhere. (Except maybe Lok.)
- Hologrind: How many 32-prof unlocks did you read about? More than I suspected. Heck, I said "never" to the hologrind, then ended up doing 19 before I came to my senses.
- New content: There is ALWAYS a complete walkthrough within a day of release -- to Test Center!
Now, the only way to keep it mysterious is to be completely random. But, that breaks the fun factor. It's just another sort of random hologrind. People wil compare notes, limit the list of actions, and people who want Jedi will grind through the list of actions, whatever it takes. Whether they are quests, profession masteries, or purchasing and eating one of every food item that can be crafted, it will be achieved.
The hologrind was an incredibly destructive force in the game. My city and PA lost many players due to this. At least one quit the game in disgust at grinding Merchant, because it ruined the RP for his character. I've heard stories like this from many others.
So please, SoE. I've been a player since Launch Day. I've kept my quiet most of the time. As an Architect, I didn't whine for the months that we couldn't make medium and heavy flora harvesters. It took almost a year to fix the Master Armoire art. The Corvette and DWB are inaccessible to a more casual player. But please don't fail us this time. Stop focusing on mystery and aggravation. Nym's Themepark was a blast. I'm even getting excited about loot kits. Whatever the new system is, just make it fun?
FishWan
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:14 pm
#632
I have been playing since July 4th of last year. No, I'm not a Jedi, and I'm not working toward it in any of my characters.
Examining the path to force sensitivity in isolation won't do. Many people here express a wish that the path is difficult and dangerous, but few would agree what "difficult" or "dangerous" means. "Difficult" to some means "Make it so I could do it because I'm uber l33t, but the care-bears wouldn't stand a chance so I'll be the only Jedi and I will PWN J0000!" Are these truly the people you wish to play Jedi and represent the best of the Old Republic? The min-maxing power-gamers? Yes, they deserve it too, but on their own terms of difficulty. Therefore I would say your first priority is to fix the con(sider) system.
With a laser rifle and Marksman: Rifles 3, I can solo a red-con quenker on Dantooine. With Marksman: Pistols 4 I can solo a red-con shaupaut hunter on Naboo. Until your con(sider) system truly understands the level of difficulty and danger for any given mission, defining what is "dangerous" is impossible. Some here have suggested that the path to Jedi should vary depending on one's starting profession, but that is folly. Who would grind out four camping boxes of Survival I-IV for Master Scout when one could macro-craft through Master Medic and heal some idiot tumbler in a med center? The easiest and safest paths would soon be found and exploited, so simply filling in skill boxes won't do. So begin with:
1. Fix the con(sider) system so it truly has an understanding of how difficult a particular encounter will be. This should include the creature's resistances to the weapon you're carrying, the quality of the weapon in your hand, the number of people in the group who can target the same HAM pool, whether the creature DBs, if the creature has disease and the party has no doctor who can cure it, and so on. When this is done, NOW you are in a position to decide what is dangerous.
Second, you need to implement systems that make Jedi less obvious. Much, much, much less obvious. At the mission terminals near the Theed starport I will almost ALWAYS always hear the sound of a lightsaber charging up. Some idiot has asked a Jedi to duel him again. ("hey dude duel me kay no db, r u jedi master? woot"). Create a penalty for characters who run around with Jedi titles over their heads, and create a penalty for running around with a lightsaber equipped: a timer, perhaps, based on the number of NPCs and players in the area who can see you. This would make it more dangerous and more punishing to a Jedi who duels people at starports or force-runs through a city because regular walking is too slow and boring. At present, the number of Jedi are unforgiveable and there's nothing any player can do about them.
I do realize that attaining Jedi is something that should be a lot of work, and it should be rewarding for those who achieve it, but I have to reiterate that the penalty for showing off one's Force skills in public should be steep, should be swift, and should be irreversible. You lost your Jedi on Bria? Too bad, that FSCS is gone forever. Why don't you try unlocking Jedi on Sunrunner instead?
This brings me to:
2. Compel existing Jedi to remain hidden. Penalize Jedi who Force-run around major cities with their titles on and lightsabers lit by giving them an XP modifier. For every X seconds you leave your title on, equip your lightsaber in public, etc, you require 1% more XP to achieve your next box. Penalties should be cumulative. This would give someone every incentive not to show off; it would only make one's path to Jedi longer! A flamboyant Jedi could easily find himself looking at 250% the XP requirements for each new box.
3. Restore penalties for visible Jedi. Highly visible Jedi should truly be tracked down by Boba Fett, Lord Vader, or by the Emperor himself, and duly axed. When killed by one of these figures, reinstate the death penalty for Jedi, so that FSCS is locked out forever--BUT make it possible for the player to pursue Jedi on a different server. One hopes that the player will have learned something from his behavior.
Once these are done, NOW you are in a position to implement a new Force-sensitive path, for you have lessened the consequences to your game of failing to keep the path difficult.
Now, what should the Force-sensitive path be, in my opinion? It should hearken back to the speculation from the Beta boards.
a. It must be a known process, but not "scoopable," that is, you can't simply publish the Jedi Walkthrough.
b. It must be a process different for every player, so that what works for one won't necessarily work for another.
c. It must encourage people to follow the path of the Jedi as it was meant to be: wisdom, courage, compassion, honor. Patience. Control. Mercy.
d. I'd like to add a personal hope that it is somehow encapsulated in a story.
Let me describe the system I would like to see:
Somewhere in the Galaxy, on some near or distant planet, there is an NPC that the player must speak to. This will begin the path. However, the NPC will be different for each player. The NPC may only have a vague story about a relic that belonged to his grandfather, or a message he intercepted for the player, or a threat he overheard on the player's life, or a traveler singing a strange song. (If the player hasn't located this NPC by the time he has spent half his skill points, the NPC can send him an email.)
Following the clues that the NPC provides will lead the player to look for someone in particular. This encounter will vary depending on the character's skills. The name may pop up on a mission terminal for a certain delivery on a certain planet, perhaps; or it will be the name of an NPC held by Trandosian slaves; or it will be the name of a Bothan diplomat on another planet; it could be a customer who walks into an artisan's shop; whatever. For players with a great amount of combat skills, it might even be a Jawa warlord held captive by Tusken raiders which the player must rescue, or a Nightsister, or an droid engineer held hostage by droidekas. Ideally, the difficult missions will require not SKILL points, but FACTION points: if you get the rescue-the-Jawa mission, you'd better start working on your Jawa faction.
At any rate, one specific encounter links to another. It will pop up, and if the player is diligent, he will see it and recognize it when it occurs. The difficulty level should be based on the player's skills, or those of his group if he's not alone. Following link after link in the story chain will ultimately lead the player to certain rewards.
For this to happen, dear devs, we will need different kinds of missions. Does anybody really read the mission descriptions? No: we just rush out and destroy, or survey, or dance, or whatever. We need missions where you have to kill the slavers but RESCUE the slaves. (Right now if you take a slaver mission, and you try to destroy the base, the slaves attack you! Hey, thanks for nothing, just trying to help.) We need missions where the Borvos (or swoopers, or whatever) will beg for mercy and then LET us show mercy (or make a note of it if we don't). We need missions where we're preparing to attack a base of Valarians, one of them shouts, "Is one of you a doctor? This man needs help!" and we could help them. We need missions where we're rescuing A Beloved Pet, but (get this) the pet is actually there be rescued. We need missions where one of the Gungan mercs has stolen a priceless coin, and we (get this) have to find it and bring it back. We need missions where we have to decide what to do, instead of just to kill everything that moves and move on to the next. We need missions where we have to make CHOICES that show what kind of players we are. Right now, the missions are so cut-and-dried you could make jerky from them. This is not good.
The game should be wise enough to recognize that players have multiple skills. If the Bounty Hunter/CH/Novice Medic is only taking one bounty mission after another, he may miss out on the fact that his next NPC can be found on a Scout Mission, asking for carnivore meat, or in a regular delivery mission asking for a gun schematic, or in a regular destroy mission looking for his lost pet cu-pa.
Above I mentioned that NPC Faction points should be crucial here, and they should. This means, sirs, we will need ways to accumulate faction points that do not depend on weapon skills. If I run a delivery mission for Bib Fortuna, I deserve some kudos from the big slug himself. If I'm finding Dolovite Iron for Cor Sec, I deserve some Cor Sec faction. If I'm gathering bristley hides for Lord Nym, I want some faction kickback. If I'm playing slitherhorn because some RSF commando mentioned a mission to me, I want the RSF to recognize it. And if I'm going to spend my time killing Trandosians, then ALL Trandosian NPCs should hate my guts.
At any rate, we should be pursuing Force-sensitivity in a series of encounters with PURPOSE, and allowing our subsequent choices along that path to either make or break us. In order for this to happen, and not be scoopable, there does need to be a certain random element. ("Last time these guys told us to stop shooting, it was a trap. But this time, are they telling the truth? What if they DO have a sick man in there?")
In other words, we should each have a different starting point, but once found, the path should unfold before us, and if we follow it diligently, we can make it eventually.
Examining the path to force sensitivity in isolation won't do. Many people here express a wish that the path is difficult and dangerous, but few would agree what "difficult" or "dangerous" means. "Difficult" to some means "Make it so I could do it because I'm uber l33t, but the care-bears wouldn't stand a chance so I'll be the only Jedi and I will PWN J0000!" Are these truly the people you wish to play Jedi and represent the best of the Old Republic? The min-maxing power-gamers? Yes, they deserve it too, but on their own terms of difficulty. Therefore I would say your first priority is to fix the con(sider) system.
With a laser rifle and Marksman: Rifles 3, I can solo a red-con quenker on Dantooine. With Marksman: Pistols 4 I can solo a red-con shaupaut hunter on Naboo. Until your con(sider) system truly understands the level of difficulty and danger for any given mission, defining what is "dangerous" is impossible. Some here have suggested that the path to Jedi should vary depending on one's starting profession, but that is folly. Who would grind out four camping boxes of Survival I-IV for Master Scout when one could macro-craft through Master Medic and heal some idiot tumbler in a med center? The easiest and safest paths would soon be found and exploited, so simply filling in skill boxes won't do. So begin with:
1. Fix the con(sider) system so it truly has an understanding of how difficult a particular encounter will be. This should include the creature's resistances to the weapon you're carrying, the quality of the weapon in your hand, the number of people in the group who can target the same HAM pool, whether the creature DBs, if the creature has disease and the party has no doctor who can cure it, and so on. When this is done, NOW you are in a position to decide what is dangerous.
Second, you need to implement systems that make Jedi less obvious. Much, much, much less obvious. At the mission terminals near the Theed starport I will almost ALWAYS always hear the sound of a lightsaber charging up. Some idiot has asked a Jedi to duel him again. ("hey dude duel me kay no db, r u jedi master? woot"). Create a penalty for characters who run around with Jedi titles over their heads, and create a penalty for running around with a lightsaber equipped: a timer, perhaps, based on the number of NPCs and players in the area who can see you. This would make it more dangerous and more punishing to a Jedi who duels people at starports or force-runs through a city because regular walking is too slow and boring. At present, the number of Jedi are unforgiveable and there's nothing any player can do about them.
I do realize that attaining Jedi is something that should be a lot of work, and it should be rewarding for those who achieve it, but I have to reiterate that the penalty for showing off one's Force skills in public should be steep, should be swift, and should be irreversible. You lost your Jedi on Bria? Too bad, that FSCS is gone forever. Why don't you try unlocking Jedi on Sunrunner instead?
This brings me to:
2. Compel existing Jedi to remain hidden. Penalize Jedi who Force-run around major cities with their titles on and lightsabers lit by giving them an XP modifier. For every X seconds you leave your title on, equip your lightsaber in public, etc, you require 1% more XP to achieve your next box. Penalties should be cumulative. This would give someone every incentive not to show off; it would only make one's path to Jedi longer! A flamboyant Jedi could easily find himself looking at 250% the XP requirements for each new box.
3. Restore penalties for visible Jedi. Highly visible Jedi should truly be tracked down by Boba Fett, Lord Vader, or by the Emperor himself, and duly axed. When killed by one of these figures, reinstate the death penalty for Jedi, so that FSCS is locked out forever--BUT make it possible for the player to pursue Jedi on a different server. One hopes that the player will have learned something from his behavior.
Once these are done, NOW you are in a position to implement a new Force-sensitive path, for you have lessened the consequences to your game of failing to keep the path difficult.
Now, what should the Force-sensitive path be, in my opinion? It should hearken back to the speculation from the Beta boards.
a. It must be a known process, but not "scoopable," that is, you can't simply publish the Jedi Walkthrough.
b. It must be a process different for every player, so that what works for one won't necessarily work for another.
c. It must encourage people to follow the path of the Jedi as it was meant to be: wisdom, courage, compassion, honor. Patience. Control. Mercy.
d. I'd like to add a personal hope that it is somehow encapsulated in a story.
Let me describe the system I would like to see:
Somewhere in the Galaxy, on some near or distant planet, there is an NPC that the player must speak to. This will begin the path. However, the NPC will be different for each player. The NPC may only have a vague story about a relic that belonged to his grandfather, or a message he intercepted for the player, or a threat he overheard on the player's life, or a traveler singing a strange song. (If the player hasn't located this NPC by the time he has spent half his skill points, the NPC can send him an email.)
Following the clues that the NPC provides will lead the player to look for someone in particular. This encounter will vary depending on the character's skills. The name may pop up on a mission terminal for a certain delivery on a certain planet, perhaps; or it will be the name of an NPC held by Trandosian slaves; or it will be the name of a Bothan diplomat on another planet; it could be a customer who walks into an artisan's shop; whatever. For players with a great amount of combat skills, it might even be a Jawa warlord held captive by Tusken raiders which the player must rescue, or a Nightsister, or an droid engineer held hostage by droidekas. Ideally, the difficult missions will require not SKILL points, but FACTION points: if you get the rescue-the-Jawa mission, you'd better start working on your Jawa faction.
At any rate, one specific encounter links to another. It will pop up, and if the player is diligent, he will see it and recognize it when it occurs. The difficulty level should be based on the player's skills, or those of his group if he's not alone. Following link after link in the story chain will ultimately lead the player to certain rewards.
For this to happen, dear devs, we will need different kinds of missions. Does anybody really read the mission descriptions? No: we just rush out and destroy, or survey, or dance, or whatever. We need missions where you have to kill the slavers but RESCUE the slaves. (Right now if you take a slaver mission, and you try to destroy the base, the slaves attack you! Hey, thanks for nothing, just trying to help.) We need missions where the Borvos (or swoopers, or whatever) will beg for mercy and then LET us show mercy (or make a note of it if we don't). We need missions where we're preparing to attack a base of Valarians, one of them shouts, "Is one of you a doctor? This man needs help!" and we could help them. We need missions where we're rescuing A Beloved Pet, but (get this) the pet is actually there be rescued. We need missions where one of the Gungan mercs has stolen a priceless coin, and we (get this) have to find it and bring it back. We need missions where we have to decide what to do, instead of just to kill everything that moves and move on to the next. We need missions where we have to make CHOICES that show what kind of players we are. Right now, the missions are so cut-and-dried you could make jerky from them. This is not good.
The game should be wise enough to recognize that players have multiple skills. If the Bounty Hunter/CH/Novice Medic is only taking one bounty mission after another, he may miss out on the fact that his next NPC can be found on a Scout Mission, asking for carnivore meat, or in a regular delivery mission asking for a gun schematic, or in a regular destroy mission looking for his lost pet cu-pa.
Above I mentioned that NPC Faction points should be crucial here, and they should. This means, sirs, we will need ways to accumulate faction points that do not depend on weapon skills. If I run a delivery mission for Bib Fortuna, I deserve some kudos from the big slug himself. If I'm finding Dolovite Iron for Cor Sec, I deserve some Cor Sec faction. If I'm gathering bristley hides for Lord Nym, I want some faction kickback. If I'm playing slitherhorn because some RSF commando mentioned a mission to me, I want the RSF to recognize it. And if I'm going to spend my time killing Trandosians, then ALL Trandosian NPCs should hate my guts.
At any rate, we should be pursuing Force-sensitivity in a series of encounters with PURPOSE, and allowing our subsequent choices along that path to either make or break us. In order for this to happen, and not be scoopable, there does need to be a certain random element. ("Last time these guys told us to stop shooting, it was a trap. But this time, are they telling the truth? What if they DO have a sick man in there?")
In other words, we should each have a different starting point, but once found, the path should unfold before us, and if we follow it diligently, we can make it eventually.
Toront
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:15 pm
#633
And on the 28th page that will never be read unless a red name pops up below me, it will be said:
To everyone asking for mysterious......been there, done that. The holocron system. There was so much uproar over how unfair it was that they decided to revamp the system. We don't need to run in circles here.
"There are already too many Jedi" Yes, but I will venture to say that a high percentage of the current Jedi fall into the "power-gamer" category, due to the requirements of the old holo-grind system. Making a "mysterious" route plays right back into the hands of power-gamers. Make it fair to the casual gamers that don't want to spend six months to a year BECOMING a Jedi, but six months to a year ADVANCING/PLAYING their Jedi. Roleplayers (like myself) didn't necessarily want to disrupt their current characters for the holo-grind. I know I personally wouldn't add to the problem of "already too many jedi" as I would plan to roleplay a Jedi in this time period, as in hiding for my life from the guy in black. Not /spamming "Can any1 teach LS Tech 3????" in Coronet in my bright white Jedi Uniform. I know many other people that would like to do the same. Make it fair to the people that might make Jedi about something more than the guy with the wickedest saber.
In computer gaming, "mysterious" equates to "random selection" i.e 5 randomly selected professions you must master. While some suggestions are intriguing, 10 randomly selected NPC missions or Themeparks or Badges is no better than what we had.
As for the "Make it a known quest, but make it LOOOOOOONG", I hate to inform you, but there really is no such thing in a game of this scope. However many different planets and NPCs you travel to and things to kill or people to rescue, somebody will powergame through it in a week. If you just tack on more and more, they will just keep endlessly pursuing it. They will get it in the fastest time possible. The problem to this is again we cut out the casual/roleplay gamer. It will never be long for a power gamer, ever. But don't put it out of reach of a casual gamer, the same as 20+ profession grinding did before.
What I ask is for a DYNAMIC quest. Not as many delivery/destroy/rescue missions as possible, but something with story. Have different speech possibilities that will affect how you progress. Have riddles and problem solving interminglesd with the regular deliver/destroy missions. Include item/inventory problem solving that we see in most solo-RPGs. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic was voted game of the year by nearly all critics for a reason. When I picked it up to play, I was so driven by unfolding the story and advancing my character that I locked myself away for a day or two to finish it. Then, I went back and did the opposite side of the force just for fun.
My suggestion is to link the different trees of force sensitivity to different quests to complete. Have the Quest for Vehicle Performance (forgive me if I'm using old data or incorrect info, I just remember reading this somewhere) involve driving on the new swoop tracks and beating a default time or winning to help someone that bet on you, etc.
Wow this got to be a decent length in a hurry. To conclude, I simply reiterate you can not please every style of gamer. Power gamers rip through things in an hour that take casual gamers months. What I do want to say is make the starting line (sorry, racing is on the brain from last example) fair to both. And one thing that appeals to ALL gamers is intriguing story and fun. Make getting Force Sensitivity fun, and there will be far less complaints.
Toront
Tenfo
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:19 pm
#634
JustG,
I don't believe it should be 100% of either.
Force Senstivity should have some clear starting points on quests but they part a 'complete mystery' and have players figure them out.
If it's 100% known then you can guaranteed people will grind it out 100% of the time.
If it's 80% known or less than only the patient and those truly desiring a Jedi will do it.
Once professions were known to be the secret to unlocking, players just did the grind until they unlocked and are still grinding to this day.
Dracovious
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:21 pm
#635
My opinion will be short and sweet. I believe that whether the path to force sensitivity should be revealed or not depends on one thing......
What are the benefits of having you character on the server be force sensitive. Will it give him added bonus' to stats? Will it remove a cap to a particular skill like dodge (aka why anakine was able to be a pod racer), you know something like that. So in conclusion, if being force sensitive gives you just a title or a cool emote or aura, then by all means reveal the path, if it can turn the tide of a battle or fight and accessing certain things in game, then no I say keep the path a secret, especially since once your force sensitive the path will be laid out before you and all you have to do for the quest is connect the dots.
Matsubaa
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:34 pm
#636
The thing about the old system that really made me mad was that it was supposedly a secret formula. There was supposedly something to be figured out, something to be accomplished. It was announced early on that the FSCS would be mysterious but something that could be puzzled out and reproduced.
There was supposed to be the dual challenge of figuring it out and accomplishing it. When it seemed like it was a different path for everyone that was an added bonus to the mystery *until* it was figured that it was random and the only thing that mattered was the profession grinding. All the rumors of great challenges; badges, travel, quests, roleplay, everything that made the system both fun and challenging was thrown out and all that was left was the so-called challenge of AFK-grinding through a hundred hours or so of community destroying macros.
We should know where to start on the path, but have to figure out what to do along the way. It shouldn't be a super-secret like the old system was or many of us will simply move on with the assumption that it's another trump card being handed out to the 1337-ards.
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:35 pm
#637
ESPECIALLY if it were someone well respected by the community as being a hard worker and dedicated community member (whether friend or foe in the GCW). Kind of like how no one was bitter when James Earl Jones got chosen to go to the "baseball heaven" in Field Of Dreams. We didn't know why, but we somehow knew he deserved it.
Mawock wrote:
I would really applaude you devs if after the first person becomes force sensitive, that it still remains somewhat of a secret on how that person got to be force sensitive...