Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
ossireese
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:03 am
#612
Can't you guys for once, put your cards on the tableon this issue? 
For whom are we talking about here? for the new player who will start playing after publish 10, or for all of us who've been there since the beginning?
Do you want us to tell you what we would've liked the system to be at launch when we all started, or now that the holo craze has happened, and most of us have silenced our holos?
Cause if you're asking if the how the system should have been to begin with, well of course it should involve mystery and quests, and weird music when you go in a cave with a special item....
To give you an example of how naive i was in the beginning about trying to become a jedi, when i found my first holo, i went to the Exar Kun temple to try to useitin 1 of the chambers with the colored rock cause i thought it might work better in a jedi temple.
That's howit should work, combinations of locations and items, that give hints.....
Now if you're asking me how you should implement the the force sensitivity to the poor souls who went through the holo madness but came up short a couple of professions, that's a whole different thing.
To that question i would answer: you better treat those guys well, and if someone has 25 professions done or more, and i don't know how many badges, well you better tell him what to do next, and it better be quick and straight forward too.
Better yet you want an idea for conversion?
Take the total number of badges divide it by 3, and if the total is 24 or more (rounded down i'll give you that 
) you have your jedi padawan. Easy, straight forward, and fair.....
) you have your jedi padawan. Easy, straight forward, and fair.....Hope you read this and you don't take it the wrong way, and sorry for any grammatical errors, English is not my first language
ossi
Hobbs_Nguyen
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:04 am
#613
Let it be unknown.
Or at least, when it starts out, that it's pretty damn hard to get started on the path. I keep picturing in my mind this: The starting point would be a random Jedi monk (like that one on Nar Shaada in that Dark Horse comic) who's in hiding. It should randomly generate itself with a new name, appearance and location every day. And only one person can actually speak to it, and then it disappears. Then that person will have started their Jedi quest.
The path should be marginally easy, but lucking into it is the key. Look at Luke Skywalker... I mean, before the Episodes I and II. If you just watch the first three, you realize that it's entirely by luck that he stumbled upon Ben Kenobi and started on his path to learning the ways of the Force. But after his initial meeting with Kenobi, he was able to get to Master Yoda and become a Jedi.
The path should be easy enough to follow, perhaps require a bit of assist from fellow players so that they actually have to, OMG, interact with others and learn a bit of civility. Getting to that path, however, should be the hard part.
Or at least, when it starts out, that it's pretty damn hard to get started on the path. I keep picturing in my mind this: The starting point would be a random Jedi monk (like that one on Nar Shaada in that Dark Horse comic) who's in hiding. It should randomly generate itself with a new name, appearance and location every day. And only one person can actually speak to it, and then it disappears. Then that person will have started their Jedi quest.
The path should be marginally easy, but lucking into it is the key. Look at Luke Skywalker... I mean, before the Episodes I and II. If you just watch the first three, you realize that it's entirely by luck that he stumbled upon Ben Kenobi and started on his path to learning the ways of the Force. But after his initial meeting with Kenobi, he was able to get to Master Yoda and become a Jedi.
The path should be easy enough to follow, perhaps require a bit of assist from fellow players so that they actually have to, OMG, interact with others and learn a bit of civility. Getting to that path, however, should be the hard part.
JGexpat
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:07 am
#614
Make it KNOWN.
WeWANT access, and just because we can't dedicate 10 hours per day for 6 months to your game, shouldn't exclude us from having access to the one character that defines the Star War Universe: The Jedi.
Make it Known. Make it accessible to all.
SmallPileOfBolts
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:08 am
#615
To be honest making it luck based would be awful, I'd rather have the holo grind than maybe, perhaps, somehow running into a random NPC in the desert while im checking my harvs..
Spin99
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:10 am
#616
By all means, make it KNOWN !
Everyone wants to try jedi prof, so let them.. and after they're killed 50 times by BHs they'll go back to their regular professions.
If you make it mysterious one, people will still want to try all that, but the unlucky ones (the majority I presume) will only get upset for not being able to.
Oh, and you will have grinders regardless of which way you go... the ones who will want jedi will grind their way to it no matter what - making the path known will just make it faster for them to get there and more enjoyable for them and the rest of us who have to put up with them.
Sethulas
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:23 am
#617
In my opinion the path shouldn't be known by say a posting on this website. You should take the in gamethemeparks (Rebel, imperial, jabba) and use them as a vehicle to drop clues. locations, npc's, enemies that have what you need to access and start this path. That way we know how to find out, but its up to us to figure it out. An imperials path would be diffrent then a Rebels, or someone who is neutral.
I can't argue that when you play a star wars game, you want to be either a Jedi or a Bounty Hunter. in most cases, Thats why if jedi are going to become every other person. Its time to move the story forward a bit to at least the Return of the Jedi time period, where the empire is falling apart an luke is starting to put together the academy. Cause it is a bit silly to see jedi wandering around coronet starport, considering the time period we are supposed to be in.
Yukmot
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:24 am
#618
Keep it a total mystery so very few people actually get Jedi. Don't give any hints and make it difficult. There are way too many Jedi as is because everyone knew what they had to do to get it. Please make it a complete mystery for the sake of the game and normal players who don't have the time to pursue Jedi.
Betatoxin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:30 am
#619
Quest/story driven, not random, nonCombat for nonCombat classes, straightforward and engaging, not monotony, not something that you have to give up your regular game for (crafter, bounty hunter) but something that you can work towards steadily, even quickly. Make the experience positive, memorable, not a drag and months upon months of drudgery.
One hard limit might be a requirement that you have to be at least 3 or 4 months into the game so you cannot buy a box and get a FS in. Perhaps require at least one master level elite profession as well for at least a month.
I am all for an interesting story but anything that approaches random is the Hologrind all over again. Force sensitive should be a nice stepping point to the real day to day challenge for those who want to persue the path of the Jedi. Force sensitive should not be the hologrind. Leave the pain and hassle to the people that want Jedi, for the rest of us Force Sensitive should be a logical and enjoyable extension to the elder game.
The sorry truth is that advancement in this game, whether it is crafting or combat is a grind. Do the same thing over and over again till you master. I challenge you, make the Force Sensitive quest everything that advancement in this game has to this point not been, Engaging, interesting, and fun. Tell a story, engage the character, immerse the player. Show us that you can tell a story not just make a world.
I am also going to give you another idea. Lets see some recognition for those players that have mastered a profession and then stayed in that profession for 4-6 months. These are people that have dedicated themselves to a career. It would be a nice nod to those players that refused to engage in the nightmare of the hologrind and have worked to become true masters of their path. I am not sure if you track this information but IMO sticking with a profession, no matter what that profession is for the long haul is far more impressive than someone who can grind out profession after profession. It shows a real dedication and a focus that is actually worthy of a Jedi.
One hard limit might be a requirement that you have to be at least 3 or 4 months into the game so you cannot buy a box and get a FS in. Perhaps require at least one master level elite profession as well for at least a month.
I am all for an interesting story but anything that approaches random is the Hologrind all over again. Force sensitive should be a nice stepping point to the real day to day challenge for those who want to persue the path of the Jedi. Force sensitive should not be the hologrind. Leave the pain and hassle to the people that want Jedi, for the rest of us Force Sensitive should be a logical and enjoyable extension to the elder game.
The sorry truth is that advancement in this game, whether it is crafting or combat is a grind. Do the same thing over and over again till you master. I challenge you, make the Force Sensitive quest everything that advancement in this game has to this point not been, Engaging, interesting, and fun. Tell a story, engage the character, immerse the player. Show us that you can tell a story not just make a world.
I am also going to give you another idea. Lets see some recognition for those players that have mastered a profession and then stayed in that profession for 4-6 months. These are people that have dedicated themselves to a career. It would be a nice nod to those players that refused to engage in the nightmare of the hologrind and have worked to become true masters of their path. I am not sure if you track this information but IMO sticking with a profession, no matter what that profession is for the long haul is far more impressive than someone who can grind out profession after profession. It shows a real dedication and a focus that is actually worthy of a Jedi.
IntoTheGarbage
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:33 am
#620
Ok, obviously I have not read all the posts here, so I don’t know how common this sentiment is: While I would prefer the path to be unknown, I just don’t see how that is possible. In real life we have the internet, and there are no secrets, especially with an MMOG.
If you make it mysterious, it will only be a matter of time before fan sites start posting spoilers. IMHO that makes it worse. There is no real joy in cheating your way through with spoilers, and even if you did it legitimately, there is no prestige in it since no one would believe you.
There is also the whining factor. If you go from a know system (current) to an unknown system (Publish 10) the nerf-cry would be deafening.
Oh, and if you want to know my bias, I am not a Jedi, nor do I want to be. I think there are far to many in the game as it is.
peebot
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:37 am
#621
I think it should be a clear yet difficult task to become force sensitive, I also would like perma death back. Even if you dont bring back perma death we should have a certain dark jedi lord show up (cue heavy breathing) and rip current jedi's a new one. Public displays of force powers should definately attract his most unwanted attention. As far as bounty hunters hunting jedi, I would think that specific anti jedi weapons would be made readily available to bounty hunters by the empire. Without one of these weapons a skilled jedi should rip a elite combat class, but these "master bounty hunter" weapons should even the score a bit. As far as there not supposed to be any jedi in this timeline...who cares, I pay a monthly fee for fun, not for **edit** retentive fan boy rants.
Evak
Evak
MagicHobo
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:37 am
#622
I say make it a known path. If it's mysterious like the old way to unlock, it will eventually be figured out and all will know. So just make it known to all.
Twyst1
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:44 am
#623
First off, just make sure that those that haven't unlocked before publish 10, but have completed a lot of professions under the old system, get rewarded fairly.
Now with that said, here is a definition of Mysterious from dictionary.com:
Mysterious - Simultaneously arousing wonder and inquisitiveness, and eluding explanation or comprehension.
To me, mysterious at least sounds better if it can be pulled off properly. Mysterious does not have to mean unknown, you can give hints and clues and still have it be mysterious. Make it desirable, but not out of reach, make it exciting and interesting and not pointless. I would like to know if I'm working towards my goal and not wasting my time.
Something like the movies would be great... a thought, a feeling, an overwhelming desire, a little voice in your head, strange signs, unexplained occurrences, a smack on the forehead (just kidding ); A process that you must initiate, but once it's started, it creeps up on you when you least expect it, and you must be ready to react.
); A process that you must initiate, but once it's started, it creeps up on you when you least expect it, and you must be ready to react.Personally, I would love for it to be mysterious and exciting, but not unknown and impossible. I stopped grinding 2 months ago in anticipation of doing a fun quest to unlock.
I feel I do not deserve a Jedi, but I will earn my Jedi at any cost. 
I have faith in the developers and I know they will get it right. 
BarlokKincaid
Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:48 am
#624
Guys,
It's a little too late to try to make it mysterious. Everyone knew how to unlock before, and people complained about holo grinding. So, you decided you were going to make things easier. Ending the holo grind was really the most important thing to make this game fun again. You also said that people who had mastered several professions after silent would get credit in the new system.
Now, here's the real problem. Jedi are very powerful. in PvP they generally will beat most other players. Non jedi are really becoming second class citizens VERY fast. Keep in mind that this was YOUR doing. Now we have a situation where we're seeing jedi everywhere and the ones that don't have one want one even more. If you were to make it mysterious, I think that would make many people actually quit the game. Keep in mind that I'm not one that usually says things like that, but in this case I think it would be that serious of an issue.You have already put this game down the path where the ONLY place it can lead is to everyone having a jedi character that wants one. As soon as Pub 9 went live that was the only logical direction that the game can now go. JTL will HAVE to be something good, because that will add a dynamic to the game that is different enough to keep everyone interested.
So, to sum up, it REALLY needs to be known. You would lose more money to people cancelling multiple accounts than you would gain from new subscribers. Make it known, make JTL something good, and this game could easily become the top MMORPG around. Making it a mystery would essentially be like completely going back on, essentially, what was promised and what was the next logical progression.
