Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
Lorrac
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:37 pm
#638
Well, I think it should be known, but I also think you should be able to fail. As a side note, this goes for weather or not you want to go light side or dark side as well but ill get to that. I think that the path should be known, I mean you know what you want to do and you have leads to learn it. SO, providing leads to getting it open should be the known part and actually getting to the next step should be a mystery. Many suggestions have been suggested with what to do there. My add on is that if you fail..you have to start over, get retrained, flunk..whatever you want to call it.
As far as my input i mentioned earlier about light side and dark side....if one does something that should not be allowed according to his "code" then he should lose his force powers for a set time based on the infraction. Dark Jedi have rules of conduct as well as light...just a different viewpoint.
Another 2 pennies I spent....
KaiRan
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:45 pm
#639
JustG wrote:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
A double edged saber indeed!
I would prefer to see this as a mystery, perhaps even being "unique" for each person, that is, one of several possible paths to "awakening" one's force potential. In fact, as a means of furthur shrouding the matter, I would love to see the actual "unlocking" be invisible... you only find out because the Hermit in the Squill cave, or the Jedi in the cave on Dantooine, or the Dark Jedi on Dantooine, or Luke on Yavin, talk to or react to you differently! And in addition, your holocron springs to life, or your Eyes of Mesra start repeating "The Force is strong in this one" over and over and over... maybe you can even see the strength of crystals. No system message, no big announcement. Just access to new content, and no way of knowing its there unless you check it.
Well, that's my envisionment of a Force Sensitive "awakening" in an ideal world, anyway.
Trouble is, we do not play in an "ideal" world. Thedanger of keeping things hidden and mysterious is a continuation of thelimited player-type that unlocks first and fastest. The uber/power gamers will grind away at every possible combination of actions, and in a matter of weeks (months if done right) the news of "how (I think) I unlocked" will flood the forums and fan sites. Those are read mainly byother power gamers, and we'll see even more of them flood the Jedi enclaves in half the time of the first batch, just like before. In order to save the system from being controlled and run exclusively by this type of player, the devs will need to insert an in-game guide even the casual gamers can gain access to, and then be forced to give everyone a guide because they underestimated how infrequently the casual gamers actually interact with upper level content. (just like the holocrons, followed by the holiday holos). In the end, the "unlock" system suffers because time that could have been spent developing a better system was instead spent on clever, but ultimately ineffectiveways to hide the method.
That's my pesimistic attitude...
So which do I vote for? I vote for Mysterious, because thats the way I want my Star Wars to be... but I know that if I win, I will be dissapointed with the way in which other players treat the system.
Drekkenkoe
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:48 pm
#640
Obviously they knew how to find out if you were force sensative in the movies from the get go (remember the little blood test)... so throw that info out, but make the jedi's life hell as it should be 
Lorrac
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:49 pm
#641
BTW, the hard cap Idea...is stupid.
People stop playing...youll never be able to become a Jedi. Also, it wouldnt be fair to make those people lose their Jedi status jsut because they are in Iraq for 1 year (or something similar)
What kind of roleplay could you give me that says we are only allowed to have say 10% of the population on this server jedi....so you do not qualify and no servers dont always grow.
If they put the TEF back up when you draw a lightsaber that would allevaite some problems...
Also, if you die say 7 times....your dead..
3 wasnt enough due to a learning curve and 7 seems rounded out...You could also make it so any deaths that happen in a 1 hour period only count as one. Some people are just plain ole mean in PvP and can be very boring when it comes to roleplay.
Mrjuice
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:58 pm
#642
The biggest problem you guys should have been aware of before is ....
Finish the "Core" game elements (ie Combat Revamp, GCW etc.) before you start tweaking endgame goals like this. You're attempting to design a new Force Sensitive and Jedi Revamp around the current mold of this game. This just doesn't work if, a few months from now, most of the basic integral parts to the game are rearranged.
I'm predicting that more headache awaits anyone sticking with this game.
Kazzacuk
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:02 pm
#643
First of all I thought as many others have also that publish 10 dealt with the path of becoming force sensitive, not from force sensitive to Jedi. It has been stated numerous times that this was the gist of publish 10 and should publish 10 be about the latter rather than the former; then how are all of us former hologrinders who didn't make the cut the first time going to become force sensitive? If not publish 10? When? It can't be publish 11 that's the combat revamp and we all know that JTL will follow publish 11. So which is it; does publish 10 deal with the path to force sensitivity or the path of the force sensitive to jedi? IF it's the latter, I quit. There will be a period of 6 months or more before the quest system to allow force sensitivity is even implemented; followed by months ofmindless toil till one lucky person happens to achieve force sensitivity. Why fix the jedi then end the only way players had of unlocking their force sensitive slots after the fix? Profession grinding should have remained in place until you guys had a decent idea to replace it with; don't take away one thing before you have something better to replace it with. Of course this may all be in vain and publish 10 will be the path to becoming force sensitive and if so I apologize for my ranting although I have been a paying and playing member of this game since the first week.
To answer the questions you posed: The path to becoming force sensitive and from force sensitive to jedi should take no more time than the average player takes to master 7-10 professions. Also the path should always be known to the player. The first step should be known to the player and upon completion of that step he should then be pointed in the next direction. Not lead mind you but pointed so that anyone with a modicum of intelligence can figure it out. I don't need a babysitter but I damn sure don't want to wander around aimlessly.
AlkalineTrio2
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:12 pm
#645
I was thinking making it TOO mysterious will ruin it.. but telling people you have to go do this will not be good. but what if you made a quest for all the people.. lets say some one gets an email saying "we have been watching you.. meet this person at this way point" and blah blah blah.. and then you meet him/her and he/she tells you to go to this place and help people. ok then you go to this place and you help them.. then you get points.. and keep doing quest from this person until you get another email saying "you have done good, go to this place and meet with one of our members. he/she might need help" you help them out but quite diferently.. he/she says to go and do stuff.. and when you get enough points you'll get another email.. "come meet us at this place" then you go to the waypoint and this npc gives you jedi things. but I mean dont make it impossible like go kill a krayt alone.. people will stop trying and quit.
Probably 70% or more players are trying to become a jedi. And if its hard as to kill a krayt alone.... oh and dont make a single quest for every one as in.. every one will have it differently.. too much work.. but lets say make 20 quest and choose one.. and send it to every one. that way all those who want to become will go and those who dont care might ignore it. but months of playing just to get jedi isnt fun. people are desperatly grindging just to hold a lightsaber. dont make it months!! but make it with quest points. like if every quest you did by that npc gave you 50 and you needed 1000 points to get jedi it would depend on how much the person plays. But people that want it too mysterous are probably jedis already and they dont have to worry about it.. but there are a whole bunch of other people trying to get it! give what the most want.. and the most want to be jedi. and if you do a quest from npc's make the missions way different. not the same old go kill this or retrieve that. more like go talk to this guy and bring him this.. when you get to him all of sudden a ship of Imperials come after him.. then you have to protect him.. and when your done he sees your skill and he sends you on a special mission to
either protect this person or kill him/her. I think this would work and might not.. but im just giving out my opinion. And the enemies you have to kill make them have different toughness like this one will take a lot of effort to kill and then the other one might have 50 womp rats. so it would be different from the last.
Probably 70% or more players are trying to become a jedi. And if its hard as to kill a krayt alone.... oh and dont make a single quest for every one as in.. every one will have it differently.. too much work.. but lets say make 20 quest and choose one.. and send it to every one. that way all those who want to become will go and those who dont care might ignore it. but months of playing just to get jedi isnt fun. people are desperatly grindging just to hold a lightsaber. dont make it months!! but make it with quest points. like if every quest you did by that npc gave you 50 and you needed 1000 points to get jedi it would depend on how much the person plays. But people that want it too mysterous are probably jedis already and they dont have to worry about it.. but there are a whole bunch of other people trying to get it! give what the most want.. and the most want to be jedi. and if you do a quest from npc's make the missions way different. not the same old go kill this or retrieve that. more like go talk to this guy and bring him this.. when you get to him all of sudden a ship of Imperials come after him.. then you have to protect him.. and when your done he sees your skill and he sends you on a special mission to
either protect this person or kill him/her. I think this would work and might not.. but im just giving out my opinion. And the enemies you have to kill make them have different toughness like this one will take a lot of effort to kill and then the other one might have 50 womp rats. so it would be different from the last.
DarkSide-Dav
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:21 pm
#647
I think it has to be know by all, in starwars, you born with the force in you, you dont becoming a force sensitive... But for the game i think it can be not tolerable that you cant do a jedi because when you create you character you were no lucky and dont have force in you.
So i think that we have to know how to force sensibilty , but the way to be padawan must be mysterious, because at the time of the game no jedi can form you... The way to be force sensible cant be like in starwars ( it is crual, that when you create you characetr you have 1 possibility on 100000 to be a jedi =/ ) , so, because you have to create a new way it must be know by all.
Neakyn
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm
#648
hi folks
first of all i have to say i havent read this whole thread so dunno know someone else before wroted what i wrote now
but anyway i made many thougts about the whole force sensitive thing
in short words i think its should be known method open to everyone no matter he is crafter, healer, entertainer or even combat
i would like to see something like:
youll have to find something like YOUR personal jedi master who grabs u up and teaches you
so the first question how could i find him - this is something i think could still get the hardest part of the whole thing
a pretty nice way would be if you have to do something quiet based on your skills that makes a jedi focusing on you. for example a fencer who is doing a reall awsome fight against a herd of rancors or something like that or a crafter manages to do a uber piece of his art or an entertainer does an amazing performance - something like this
right after youd done this the jedi npc will come to you (not reverse) and start talking with you
from then on i could imagine something like the r2 noob helper droids just as a jedi in your datapad (who should be able to die, fight, get fighted or something like else) in a different timespawn from login to login he should come out and give u a new quest to do
startet with pretty easy things for example an elite combatant should go out and find a peko peko albatross and kill him for example
this whole thing should take you then 6 months and 24 quests
the quest should get from time to time harder but should be still soloable - if its not soloable there is no sense if you need a 10 man group to become force sensitive cause YOU have to find out for your own if the force is with you or not - so at this point its really necessary to find the right balance between the challenge and the undoable - but for every profession there shouldnt be just kill these, craft these etc missions so dont be to hard lined at the profession you have
the mark of intellect for example is a good way how a quest could look like
so let the quests go trough everything u hold at your backhand -
basics of your profession (combat, entertaining, crafting, healing)
puzzles
find something rare (but nothing where u have to camp spawnpoints it would ruin again the whole revamp)
manage to help someone else (could be also be something like u are out at the wild, a player near to you radius 100meters is about dieing every second u have to catch him up and rescue him)
so my answer is make it known common, accessable for everybody with every profession but give the whole way of becoming fs interactive and dynamic generated content (evtl a lil system creating for each player every time his jedi comes with a new quest the system creates from a pool of masses of various arguments creating a new quest (so youll never ever see a guide of about becoming a jedi or force sensitive cause everybody has his own way to do)) but also prepare for every player a story who force him to cant await live on his saga (also from a random pool based on his profession)
imho is this really a good way to make the players go on beeing force sensitivy also if its quiet large on how to code it
and for all these of you crying about there are too many jedis: everyone out here paying his 15 dollars a month and also paying them for the lil chance to become force sensitive with the same chances for casual gamers and hardcore gamers this would be just easy and fair for everyone
anyway i also saw today some nice ideas at the forum hold the jedi population down with something like u can also get nightsister or a singing mountain clan member, and much more amazing content
we all live a saga that is huge and gave the devs soo much more space to work with and the still havent not 50 % content in the game they could includde if the put into the game what would be a possibility to include
AuleyDavyds
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:31 pm
#649
TH: I just voted, had a tough choice deciding, picked one, and then saw that after 5000+ votes, it seems pretty even. The reason is simple: At this point, no one seems to care about the people that may in the future BECOME FS/Jedi. The problem is those that already are. If some people got their FS character by AFK-macroing, that isn't a whole lot of active work, and hence every person who didn't do that at least wants the opportunity for a relatively easy way to get their character to be FS. Even if they don't plan on going that route (like myself), it still makes things difficult because the players want to at least have the option open for the future. To make a system that is (as the original system was touted to be) mysterious and difficult to find does not solve the problem created by those who got to where they are under the previous system. I only wish I knew how to fix the previous problem. As for the future, well, I would've liked it to always be a mysterous system. So let's at least go there now. Although, please realize that mean I'm sacrificing my own chances of getting an FS character to fix a problem you created.
DakkTunon
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:34 pm
#650
The path to enlightenment should have to be gained through all the NPC's that have the "i" above their head, and should be controlled, yet random. Let me explain:
Just like the "helper droids" now only talk to the person who owns them, it'd be cool if, while walking around, you received a /tell that says "I see you might be a true believer... one wishing to seek the path of enlightment. Do you have a moment to talk?" and have it lead to conversation with a "i" NPC. If you choose not to, you won't be bothered again for a few days,and you can so choose to say "No, please don't bother me again" and it could place a waypoint in your datapad in case you "Change your mind."
Your conversation should be a selection of questions designed to figure out whether you seek the Dark or Light Side (maybe 10 questions, each with 2 to 4 answers) and even if you and a friend picked the exact same answers, it should be programmed to pick one of 10 different paths (theroretically, this would allow 4^10^10, or 400 different possible paths) for that string of answers. Ultimately, you could choose the opposite of what the guide suggests.
All those random NPC's would be put to use, and you'd see folks exploring the wilderness, and the cities again. Also, I do agree that dependence on other players would be important, but remember that since the Jedi are hunted, it should be possible for folks who make it too obvious (like yelling "Looking for the Jedi quest mission 4 medallion") end up with some "Imperial entanglements". The Empire should be trying to stop us at every turn, confiscating items, and making life miserable... that is, unless you decide to follow a path to become a Dark Jedi that is allied with the Empire.
PLEASE!!!! Add some really atmospheric music to the game for the quests... like when Luke and Yoda are trying to raise the X-Wing out of the swamp... I think unique music to convey the gravity and the danger of the situation would be awesome.
Now, realize that some folks would be approaching "i" NPC's of factions that they have ganked too many times. This should be a situation where you have a dialog that says "You sense danger ahead... but also the ability to control it. Do you attempt to concentrate on this task?" This would not always appear, so weak combat folks would be wise to bring a friend or a trusty sidearm!
As the quests progress, they can range from combat, to crafting (schematics, etc. you could use or have some do), to exploring. It should NOT favor crafters, or medics, or pikemen, or carbineers, TKA, etc. - merely be more slanted towards the profession(s) you are more advanced in.
I definitely think that, since not everyone is a power gamer, there really should be a way to track how long you have been actively progressing, so as not to penalize the casual gamer folks.
Lastly, the final step to open the door to the Jedi should be extremely difficult to do,and definitely needs to not violate the Jedi code. That should be the final test.