Development Cycle Archive
Thread: SWG Changes Part 3: GCW Occupation System
Jagbar wrote:
you just don't get it do you. When you choose to be a Dark Jedi you are required to become imperial if you are already not one. if you can't see the irony in that you need to get yourself a ticket for the clue bus. so what pro's would someone have to become a Dark Jedi compared to a Light Jedi? not really any aside from the RP aspect. personally i think like others have said that all jedi should be expelled from the Rebel and Imperial factions upon completeing the knight trials. it would just be too messed up to push this with the way things are set up now.
ZJedi01 wrote:
As far as dark Jedi having a disadvantage by being hunted by all the npcs instead of half like the rebel jedi, again I say tough. As far as Palpatine is concerned (star wars reference...careful for all those non-star wars fans who expect the game not to be star wars) he doesnt want anyone but him and vader, only two sith there are...a master and apprentice, every other jedi is a threat. If you dont like that plot line, then you dont like star wars...move on. I think that pretty much tidies up all the complaints.
You can get an AT-ST? 
Well, this is an RPG after all.
These ideas are steps to make things better and in some cases make things right.
I think some past decisions were wrong and they shouldn't tie themselves down with those bad decisions.
Let's see what else they may have in store that will make all these changes fall into place.
There will likely be other changes or certain factors that won't make this the mess some people are claiming that this will be.
The bottom line is the concept of the Empire hunting all Jedi is a good one (And one that has been in-game since the beginning).
Remember the first system message when the first person unlocked?
Think about all the emails and things stated by the Empire regarding Jedi.
Take a look at the Bounty Hunter: Jedi Mission descriptions.
This isn't some new concept that is coming out of nowhere. It is a step back on the right track.
It is my opinion that the Jedi Revamp was quite flawed in a number of ways.
I, for one, don't want to see this game tied down to some bad developement decisions of the past.
This could be an indication that this team is fixing these mistakes.
There will always be some people unhappy with certain changes, but in the end I hope they do what is best.
I'm not saying there is no cause for people to question some of this stuff, I'm just saying there may be more to it than what we're seeing right now.
No need to freak out
(Not yet)
As far as I am concerned... these ideas sound very exciting... and fun damnit.
I have to be honest... "Powerful force" does make me wonder if high level Jedi may find a certain black-cloaked figure hunting them down.
*shrugs*
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
Message Edited by omadnay on 02-09-2005 03:51 AM
I think many of you are missing a key point. The NPCs won't just attack all Jedi on sight... only if you are scanned and found to be a Jedi. It may even be tied to your visibility, so if you have a Jedi that doesn't run around waving your lightsaber around and using your force powers in front of people the scan may come up negative.
DartVader2 wrote:
Additionally, if a Jedi is scanned s/he runs the risk of being exposed. Should this happen, the police may panic and call for help, bringing a very powerful force on the Jedi. Note that Imperial allied police will call forces to attack any Jedi, regardless of faction. Rebel aligned police will only call guards to attack Dark Jedi.
If that goes Life - im gone.
I have two Jedis, one is Merchant/Artisan/Armorsmith and Neutral - he cant fight but he has to go placing harvester, buy resources .. etc ...
The other is a Neutral PvE Jedi only - just a few know that he is Jedi, and no one saw him with Robe or Lighsaber out in Public. When im going to other Planets i alway equip another weapon and normal clothes. I Dont want to be forced tofight against NPCs and gain Visibility!
please re-think, i know some other Jedi thinking the same ...
Why not?
P4UL wrote:
JediNizar2 wrote:
Barafu wrote:
Sounds great devs! Don't let all the confused people and whiners get you down. Keep up the good work.
Yes Devs keep it up, and don't listen to the Jedi whiner again, they alredy have every thing they want.
The Imperor don tolorate neither Dark or light Jedi.
If a Jedi want to avoid a scan he has to group with a Smuggler
Nice work, But if a Dark Jedi is uncovered they shouldnt be attacked by imperials, if this is the case give them there own faction, because thats pretty stupid.
While I respect your opinion, your argument is self defeating. I'm not disagreeing with you and this is not a flame, but rather an opportunity for you to clarify if needed. My comments are in yellow
Read my post on the previous page, and I think you'll see how I view this game as a PvE player who takes a broader view on things
Darter wrote:
I also disagree with your assessment of how PvE players should not be immune to PvP. I pay my $15/month like the rest of you, but I don't want to fight other players necessarily, and that's what's laregly kept me out of the GCW so far. I don't have the patience and time to invest in a PvP template to fight off the people who invest millions of credits in weapons and armor and then take you down with a surprise attack, anyway. Frankly, the removal of the TEF is the best thing to happen to the game, in my opinion. I don't want to fight other players, and so I've kept myself out of situations where that might be an issue.
That is excatly the way the systen was designed to work...the individual players who chose to join a Faction were responsible for their actions. By stating that you kept yourself out of situations where fighting other players might occur because you wanted to avoid PvP, you are proving that the TEF system works.
I want it to stay that way when the GCW changes go live. There shouldn't be a situation where I'm "forced" into fighting another player.
The only situation you would be forced into PvP is if youchose to dosomething that made you "visble" to your enemy. If you were out doing faction missions or farming XP and an Overt PC saw and attacked you it is becauseYOU made the choice to attack his Faction. As unreasonable as it may seem to youright now, YOU are the one who chose to engage in activity which would give you a TEF andYOU were the one who went alone (or with a group too weak to defend itself) to attack the enemy.
I know that there are "gank squads" that camp out looking for PvE'ers...as does apparently everyone else...so why shouldwe be surprised and indignant when we are found by a bunch of Overts we weren't ready for and are "ganked" by them? The logicalsolution for all of us, knowing that gank squads are out there,is togo out prepared for a fight (in a Group with stronger combatants perhaps?) instead of complaining that you were "ganked."
To put it in "real life" terms: Would you go to a football game, sit on the opposing teams side, root loudly for your team, and expect NOT to be harrassed? Of course not! You havefour logical choices:
1) Stay Home (SWG equivalent = don't join a Faction)
2) Keep your mouth shut and watch the game(SWG = don't do things which will get you a TEF)
3)Head back to your side of the field when others start to notice you cheering (SWG = take steps to avoid the enemyonce you have aTEF)
3) Get a busload of your friends to sit with you and hope the size of your group is big enough to make the fans around you think twice about harassing you (SWG = Travel with a more powerful group and hope for the best)
On a related note, I think we are all (including me) entirely too quick to call a more powerful group a gank squad just because they beat us...where is it written that your (or my) character must always win? What about when you are attacking an Imperial NPC mission target(that has onlythree Imperial Cadet NPCs) and a squad of Stormtroopers...or even some Nova Troopers...spawn 100m away? Is that also a gank squad? Should you be protected from them because you were only out for the mission NPCs? Of course not! But you would immediately take steps to avoid or escape from the unexpected spawn if you weren't powerful enough to take them down alone. Personally, that is how I view the entire gank squad issue...it is just part of the risk associated with attacking the enemy.
Yours and all the other scenarios of standing around watching while someone kills all the NPCs in a controlled city is identical to what happens now if you're covert. Been to Mos Espa lately? Piles of stormtrooper bodies everywhere, and I can't do a thing to the people doing it unless I go declare myself, but I don't want to open up that can of worms. So I watch helplessly instead. Yes, it's my choice, I understand.
That is exactly what the TEF system is supposed to do...make us think twice before opening that can of worms. On the other hand, you could call your guildmates and friends to Mos Espa when the battle is going on, and then you could all join the fight and have a better chance of surviving.
Besides, killing the NPCs in a controlled city won't affect the outcome of the GCW standings. Bases are the key.
It will when the city changes hands and the players have to "cleanout" the NPC troops as the Devs explained earlier.
Message Edited by Darter on 02-09-2005 12:41 PM
Message Edited by Guamarhea on 02-09-2005 03:30 PM
Message Edited by Guamarhea on 02-09-2005 03:54 PM
Message Edited by Guamarhea on 02-09-2005 03:57 PM
The same thing could happen under the current setup, but it doesn't, so they must already have a cap on how often you get scanned. I've never been scanned more than once every so often. I never get scanned twice in a short period of time.
TK1210GT wrote:
Jonathan,
I know I might be a little paranoid here, but lets say I'm rebel and I'm "on leave".
1. Suppose I get scanned...
2. Get caught for being a rebel
3. Shot and killed.
4. Wake up in a cloning center.
5. Walk out of cloning center.
6. Get scanned again.
7. Get killed again.
8. Get scanned again...
See my point?
Whatstrategies are in place that keep us from getting griefed by NPCs that scan? Can there at least be a cap on the number of times you can get scanned in an hour or something?
Guamarhea wrote:
While I respect your opinion, your argument is self defeating. I'm not disagreeing with you and this is not a flame, but rather an opportunity for you to clarify if needed. My comments are in yellow
Read my post on the previous page, and I think you'll see how I view this game as a PvE player who takes a broader view on things
Darter wrote:
I want it to stay that way when the GCW changes go live. There shouldn't be a situation where I'm "forced" into fighting another player.
The only situation you would be forced into PvP is if youchose to dosomething that made you "visble" to your enemy. If you were out doing faction missions and an Overt PC saw and attacked you it is becauseYOU made the choice to attack his Faction. As unreasonable as it may seem to youright now, YOU are the one who chose to engage in activity which would give you a TEF and you were the one who went alone (or with a group too weak to defend itself) to attack the enemy.
IMessage Edited by Darter on 02-09-2005 12:41 PM
Message Edited by Guamarhea on 02-09-2005 03:30 PM
He choose to attack your faction, but he did not choose to PvP. This is his/my point of view. With todays system it is true that when I attack a faction NPC I place myself into a position to PvP, but this is not really want I want to do. I simply wanted to fight the NPC without crossing into another playstyle.
Sure, you can say,
"Well...don't kill my faction you noob!". But what does that do for the person who wants to get into the game, group up and kill stormies or rebels without having to deal with PvP.
"Well...go craft than you carebare". No, I like to be a combat guy and believe I am involved with the GCW without having to PvP.
Forcing people to PvP is not fun to many people. Being able to PvE a faction and have the choice to PvP when they wish to is fun for these same people.
This new system may hurt immersion for the PvPers, but it opens the door for a large mass of people who wish to be part of the War without having to deal with PvP.
Epani
The same thing could happen under the current setup, but it doesn't, so they must already have a cap on how often you get scanned. I've never been scanned more than once every so often. I never get scanned twice in a short period of time.
TK1210GT wrote:
"That is excatly the way the systen was designed to work...the individual players who chose to join a Faction were responsible for their actions. By stating that you kept yourself out of situations where fighting other players might occur because you wanted to avoid PvP, you are proving that the TEF system works."
My situation proves that the TEF system works, but not the GCW system. When the devs took the battlefields offline, they effectively disabled the GCW for those of us who wanted to take part in the GCW but didn't want to have to fight other players to do it. Yes, it's my choice (and I emphasized that before, too) to not take part in the GCW due to the TEF system, but I feel like I've been alienated from a large part of the game. I want to experience the WARS part of Star Wars, but at my own leisure and not at the behest of other players who force me into a confrontation.
I'm a prime example of why the devs are doing away with TEFs. This update is for me, the silent majority of the players, and not the vocal minority PvP players.
Is this ideal to the PvP players? Hell no. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that there are more PvE players than PvP players, though. PvP will be what drives the new GCW system, and the factional control meta-game may encourage people to switch from PvE to PvP. The devs have already outlined how PvP will be what ultimately drives the GCW with the larger and more valuable PvP bases, so letting us PvE'ers do our thing unbothered by others is probably for the best. We get to help a little, but not too much. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
"The only situation you would be forced into PvP is if you chose to do something that made you "visble" to your enemy. If you were out doing faction missions and an Overt PC saw and attacked you it is because YOU made the choice to attack his Faction. As unreasonable as it may seem to you right now, YOU are the one who chose to engage in activity which would give you a TEF and you were the one who went alone (or with a group too weak to defend itself) to attack the enemy."
I meant under the new system, not the current one. If they're doing away with the TEF system, they shouldn't replace it with something that does almost the same thing but just has a different name. Saying that PvP-enabled players should be able to attack PvP-disabled players attacking NPCs completely defeats the whole purpose of being PvP-disabled in the first place. It's like the old quote I always see attributed to Henry Ford: "You can have it in any color you like. As long as it's black."
If you're going to give someone an option, don't take it away from them while pretending they're getting it.
"It will when the city changes hands and the players have to "clean out" the NPC troops as the Devs explained earlier."
I realize that, but the NPCs still don't have an effect on the meta-game. The city's lost, all that's left is cleaning out the defenders. Even if the city is not cleaned out by the opposing faction, the planet will *still* be under the control of the winning faction, in which case the NPCs serve no useful purpose anymore, anyway. They're certainly not guarding anything. In cities not heavily trafficked, I'm sure that you're going to find factional NPCs walking around with banners from the other faction surrounding them. Besides, the devs have not said one way or another that for every NPC killed in a recently won city, they will be replaced by the appropriate new factional NPC. Will the new factional NPCs spawn anyway, regardless of whether the city is cleaned out? Or only when all the defenders are dead? Will the planet only return to the other faction's control once the NPCs are all gone? We don't know, and it's all speculation at this point.
But again, saying the PvP-enabled players should be able to attack the PvP-disabled players taking out the NPCs *completely defeats* the whole purpose of removing the TEF system. This is identical to the arguments about PvE players taking out a PvP base's defenses and then waiting for the PvP players to show up and destroy it, only in this scenario the roles have been reversed: the PvP players have already won, but either type of player gets to throw the switch.
Yep...the silent majority speaks...
Darter wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily call my argument self-defeating, but your interpretation of it is as such.
"That is excatly the way the systen was designed to work...the individual players who chose to join a Faction were responsible for their actions. By stating that you kept yourself out of situations where fighting other players might occur because you wanted to avoid PvP, you are proving that the TEF system works."
My situation proves that the TEF system works, but not the GCW system. When the devs took the battlefields offline, they effectively disabled the GCW for those of us who wanted to take part in the GCW but didn't want to have to fight other players to do it. Yes, it's my choice (and I emphasized that before, too) to not take part in the GCW due to the TEF system, but I feel like I've been alienated from a large part of the game. I want to experience the WARS part of Star Wars, but at my own leisure and not at the behest of other players who force me into a confrontation.
I'm a prime example of why the devs are doing away with TEFs. This update is for me, the silent majority of the players, and not the vocal minority PvP players.
Is this ideal to the PvP players? Hell no. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that there are more PvE players than PvP players, though. PvP will be what drives the new GCW system, and the factional control meta-game may encourage people to switch from PvE to PvP. The devs have already outlined how PvP will be what ultimately drives the GCW with the larger and more valuable PvP bases, so letting us PvE'ers do our thing unbothered by others is probably for the best. We get to help a little, but not too much. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
"The only situation you would be forced into PvP is if you chose to do something that made you "visble" to your enemy. If you were out doing faction missions and an Overt PC saw and attacked you it is because YOU made the choice to attack his Faction. As unreasonable as it may seem to you right now, YOU are the one who chose to engage in activity which would give you a TEF and you were the one who went alone (or with a group too weak to defend itself) to attack the enemy."
I meant under the new system, not the current one. If they're doing away with the TEF system, they shouldn't replace it with something that does almost the same thing but just has a different name. Saying that PvP-enabled players should be able to attack PvP-disabled players attacking NPCs completely defeats the whole purpose of being PvP-disabled in the first place. It's like the old quote I always see attributed to Henry Ford: "You can have it in any color you like. As long as it's black."
If you're going to give someone an option, don't take it away from them while pretending they're getting it.
"It will when the city changes hands and the players have to "clean out" the NPC troops as the Devs explained earlier."
I realize that, but the NPCs still don't have an effect on the meta-game. The city's lost, all that's left is cleaning out the defenders. Even if the city is not cleaned out by the opposing faction, the planet will *still* be under the control of the winning faction, in which case the NPCs serve no useful purpose anymore, anyway. They're certainly not guarding anything. In cities not heavily trafficked, I'm sure that you're going to find factional NPCs walking around with banners from the other faction surrounding them. Besides, the devs have not said one way or another that for every NPC killed in a recently won city, they will be replaced by the appropriate new factional NPC. Will the new factional NPCs spawn anyway, regardless of whether the city is cleaned out? Or only when all the defenders are dead? Will the planet only return to the other faction's control once the NPCs are all gone? We don't know, and it's all speculation at this point.
But again, saying the PvP-enabled players should be able to attack the PvP-disabled players taking out the NPCs *completely defeats* the whole purpose of removing the TEF system. This is identical to the arguments about PvE players taking out a PvP base's defenses and then waiting for the PvP players to show up and destroy it, only in this scenario the roles have been reversed: the PvP players have already won, but either type of player gets to throw the switch.