Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Publish 8.2 Feedback: Death Watch Bunker

Fred_Skinner
Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:30 pm
#573




St1lgar wrote:




AlaManQ5 wrote:

1) Insane Difficulty Level for Casual Gamers.


2) Insane Lag due to increased amounts of players trying their best to overcome the Insane Difficulty Level.


3) Yes, it is meant to be difficult to gain the Mandalorian Armor, but the difficulty is enough to deter less hardcore or casual gamers due to boredom and lower chances of being rewarded for effort.


4) Battle Droids...is it me or do these guys even EXIST in the Star Wars Continuity at this time the game is set it? As it stands, Battle Droids exist at the wrong time, and have exaggerated levels of difficulty. Padme shot a Battle Droid in the head and downed it instantly, and Jedi and Clone Troopers made short work of Super Battle Droids. Their strength is in NUMBERS, not individual strength.


5) It is fun...to a degree. And yet, this fun is short lived for the Master Elites that manage to fight through a few dozen spawns of SBDs and BDs. Its a waste of travel credits, waste of weaponry and armor, and *gasp* an overall waste of time for little or no reward.


There, i said it. Yes it can be fun for some, but most certainly not for all, thus stripping potential entertaining content from the majority of the playerbase.







100% agree.... nothing more to add...




yep. I do have something to add tho...


You won't get me or any other Ranger to do this or any future content like this. We do not have the skill points left to get good combat skills to be well rounded enough to succeed. Nor does the Ranger prof help at all down there.No party will want a single Master combat prof template or one with no masters, other then the ones required. If you require a Ranger in the group for access then the party dies: it will be underpowered. Funny that you gave Rangers the Cert for it (us Rangers have felt you merly did this to throw us a bone so that we would hang on till next year) I have no clue how I could ever get this armor. You would think we would have some kind of combat skill...


I'm not usually this bitter... honest.





Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


Pirrg-Freemoon
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:09 pm
#574
the REAL issue here isnt the difficulty of the DWB. Its not too difficult, its perfect. The people on various servers whom have already managed to craft mandelorian parts have proven the fact that it is working as intended. Ofcourse, they moved in groups of 20-40 people with jedis as backup, but this is exactly the way it should be. Mandelorian armour should be IMMENSLEY difficult to come by, not impossible, difficult. And it is. Good work devs i salute you.



________________________________________________________________________________________

Your opinions are stunning in their brazen pandering to the lowest intellectual denominators available. they are worse than sloppy and wrong, they are violently retarded.
Masanis
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:34 pm
#575
Nothing should require Jedi. Everyone in the Empire is supposed to be hunting them. That's why they get TEF'd when they reveal their force powers.

Munter
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:04 am
#576
"I hate to complain, but this is a point of interest for only the elite few or strong groups."


Spot on! The corvette and the bunker are for the best players and, or strong groups. Now, there is nothing wrong with having such difficult missions at all, yet please consider this developers; The majorety of players are not hardcore players but more casual. The majorety of professions are not elite combat orientated. A large group of players play solo most of the time. For all those groups of players the top-end missions are not attractive at all, me thinks.


So my thoughts are that you finally begin to create more missions for those uf us who are not, and most likely will never, make it to the top, to Jedi statusand for the many solo players.


To the topic missions...many of the present missions for the lower class players are simply..well..simplistic. Run there and destroy this is not quite what I would call satifactory. What I am missing is a plot story which spells out where the missionslots into the over all war effort. I also missdesperatly more mission parks, especially mission parks which don't belong to either of the main factions.


So in the end..yes, the Bunker is a good mission just please don't forget the 80% of players which most likely will never complete this mission and after one or two attempts just quit on it as in the to hard basket.


One final point. True, artisans and entertainers can join a large group (a very large group) to make it through the top missions. The problem then glaringly apparent is LAAAAG ! Unless one has a top end computer the Lag is indeed deadly. I have an upper medium range machiene and connection, yet the lag got my Char killed.



Freedom and life, for me, are the two sides of the same coin.
Erillion
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:09 am
#577
The point is not that some groups on some servers where able to beat the bunker and craft a Mandalorian part.


The point is that it is MIND NUMBING BORING to do that ! With the current spawn rate of SBD you spent hours auto attacking (watching TV, doing housework) to get into the lower levels. It would be equally hard with a reduced spawn rate, but no so darn borning.


The point is that it is pointless to actually GET a Mandalorian armor part. Its crappy now. It will STILL be crappy after the combat revamp (four vulnerabilities ?!!!). Loot is abysmal (a DE-10or a executioners axe are NOT desirable weapons, no one yet has been able to craft a jet pack (BUG !!!!!!!!!!!!!! loot drop missing since TC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)). Decay is ruinous. Expenses (food, buffs, weapon/armor decay) are staggering with almost nothing interesting in return.


Pray tell ... why would you like to go there ? I watched the interest in my 50 people PA twindle to almost NOTHING since patch day.


Have fun


Delos
Erillion
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:10 am
#578
ah yes ... page 26 .... no dev response ... same as on Corellian corvette


Delos
Ethen_Roe
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:35 am
#579
Makes you wonder why they set them up

You May be aware that the corvette now has SBD's everywhere and can shoot through walls, warp up levels, and you my get general exception errors walking through doors
Munter
Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:53 pm
#580

"Sendeel wrote:


Ok this is really annoying. For all of you people complaining that the devs should put in more content for the casual gamer, LOOK AROUND. The entire game is full of casual-gamer content! If you need help finding it and are too lazy to go exploring on your own, check out these great maps ---> http://www.simantix.co.uk/swgmaps/ There are PLENTY of things that soloers and small groups can do with little or no experience or help."


Well, Ihad a look a t the maps. They are really good, granted..but they show only what is already known to most players anyhow. Yes there are dungeons for all players to go and clubber their way through with mostly miserly reward, yet this in my mind is not what role-players (even casual ones) look for.


After defeating a dungeon one time the dungeon becomes to me uninteresting. And even worse, all the other dungeons are but (more or less) a repeat of the first dungeon. There is nothing new and there is no story plot at all. Hey! Why should I go anywhere and kill a dozen or so NPC intelligences? What is my reason? Am I just a mindless killer?..or worse..a mindless player...grrr... Roleplaying games are supposed to have good and varient content and at least some kind of plot. If I wish mindless slaughter I can play first action shooters..oh..sorry..even Dukehad a better story plot then SWG has right now! Man....just look at the Final Fantasy series. Now that is what I call a plot.


True, it is difficult to get something like a coherent plot in such a huge game arena as SWG, but i don't think that it is too difficult to implement hundreds of minor plots and coherent quest into SWG. Quest that give the player the feeling they are actually doing something to help with the war effort. Run and destroy for no other reason than to destroy is not the answer!


More difficult Dungeons are not the answer. At least me thinks so! Especially dungeons which I have no reasons whatever to go to!


Have been playing SWG for..uhh..think it is almost 7 month now and hanging in there hoping that something is going to change eventually. But patience is running thin and other games are tempting to be explored. Nevertheless, SWG has so much scope that it is hard to imagine the game will falter all together. One day some Div will start to listen!






Freedom and life, for me, are the two sides of the same coin.
SolzDevius
Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:16 am
#581
I went to the bunker two days ago with a hastily thrown together group including a tkm, a master pike/doc, a bh, a carbineer, one other marksman and myself (master riflewoman). We made it to the room where the guards come and you have to kill the one npc for the card to get through the locked door. Granted that's not very far, but we hadn't been IN the bunker before, so I figured it was a pretty good learning experience.


What I can tell you is this: This dungeon is PERFECT for pushing groups to be efficient, resourceful and cohesive. I think it's the perfect thing to get people away from what's become a distinct emphasis on solo play in this game. Solo grinding of professions doing solo missions constantly gets you xp and another master tag notched in your bio, but my gawd did I miss learning to fight in a group again. It rocked. I'm looking forward to going back with folks from that group again, get even farther and put together a plan for going all the way.


Well done SOE, for challenging us to learn how to play as a group again.



---===//The Dent Brothers\\===---
Arther Dent ------ Krill Dent
Dented Motorworks --- Trader's Gate, Lok

Sebun
Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:43 pm
#582
Despite better judgement we went back to the DWB after killing a Gorax.

Solz I disagree. Although it may make a group more efficient, it does nothing to stop the bordem. Already a super efficient group, we charged down to the first locked door and killed everything we traned with us there. We were taking on 5 SBDs at one time. Our healers were healing, our tanks tanking. We kill them as efficently as possible. That doesn't make me feel better when after we kill all five I get 2500 combat xp and about 20k off my chest piece. Boring. The best most effiect way to kill em all is to trane as many possible to a small area and turn on your spin macros. When you get to 1 or 2 SBDs go through to the next part. Rinse repeat. Take more than one chest piece down.

The group I was with are all the type of people this thing is supposed to target. And probably won't go back. It was tough talking people going there in the first place. Really only cause we killed a gorax nearby.

Devs tell me again why you made this bunker?
EvilHQ
Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:01 am
#583
went there, died, nicetextures on the 3rd room,shot the R2 droids for the hell of it, cloned, went home, killed some Durni's, felt better

DeusMalleus
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:32 am
#584
Fantastic.


the DWB has got our group to even better teamplay and group thinking.

The most obvious and probably the true reason why people think this is "impossible" , as with the corvette, is that they think solo. Rambo´ers can move along.

At first you get beaten beyond recognition. Brilliant start. What do you do when that happens. Well most seem to whine on the forums. What kind of game do you whiners want? easy but with content? challenge? How can it be content and still easy, content is for me at least challenge and athmospheric places.

The challange is thinking. The current tactic of all(almost) all players are brute force. That doesnt work here. I have been in groups with 20 players, elite proffessions, god players, and still got beaten real hard. I have on the other hand been standing outside the master tailor crafting room with 7 people. none died on the way down and it took 2.20 hours.

Whats the difference, are we uberplayers, gods? Do we have the best equipment in the game ? No we changed our tactics and and planned what we did. Thinking, teamplaying and overcome.

We are by far not done yet. there is still much to do.

The challenge and the satisfaction of overcoming the problems are "loot" enough for me. Although a set of Mando armor doesnt feel bad to.



---------------------
Deus Mallei - Co-leader Ordo Malleus - Cragstone - Naboo - Farstar
Malleus - Testcenter
Master Pikeman - becouse we have the coolest moves

Mandalorian Helmet Mandalorian leggings Mandalorian chestplate JetPack
Bartholomew_Roberts
Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:19 pm
#585
nikitna says:


Ok, now the power gamers have plenty of playgrounds, now make some immersive environments for us RPers. More theme parks like settings.


Make Jabba an actual faction, and give all those neutral people something to work with. Let them get some Jabba NPC's and items. All those smugglers really dont have underworld contacts, just faction contacts. I think this should be a major issue.



I Agree. I've played both Imperial and Neutral. One of my closest friends plays as Rebel scum. I'm a ranger/swordsman with some medic thrown in. I can burn through Jabba's palace with no problem and the narglatch cave is challenging.... unbuffed. I want to actually RP and play the professions I like. I feel it's wrong to force people to use a formulaic template to be uber combat stacked to be able to use any new content. You Devs need to rememberthat not everyone is a PvP god or powergamer and add some content for the majority of players too. And I love the idea of having a real neutral/criminal faction to be a part of.


-Stump

Ranger/swordsman/medic
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