Development Cycle Archive
Thread: SWG Changes Part 3: GCW Occupation System
Glad to see that someone else has the same concerns I do for the status of Crafters/Entertainers in this.
Earymi wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
Jeez people, we are not eliminating a Civilian/Neutral/Crafting lifestyle. But the GCW will affect the environment.
When we add things to one aspect of the game or another, we are not "squeezing" out everyone else. Opting-out to me means notengaging in the GCW combat. I sincerely doubt everyone will leave the crafts because combat and the GCW gets more interesting.
Jeez Tyrant...
As crafters, we were assured that there would be a way for non-combat professions to PARTICIPATE in the GCW, to feel a part of the star wars world and have an immersive experience. I'd love for you to explain to me how that happens as a "neutral/civilian".
The message is clear -- be a fighter, or opt out of the whole Star Wars universe/struggle. And I have to say that I resent the hell out of that message. The only option my crafting character will have is to resign from the rebel faction. How is that not being "squeezed" out?
Glzmo wrote:
Thank you, Calandryll, for the information and special thanks to GreenMarine for bringinganotherlong-lostpieceimmersion and roleplaying-feeling back to SWG
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Ko-aIri wrote:
Mr. Hanna,
Since you're monitoring this thread at the moment, I was wondering if possibly you could comment on this item related to what you just posted:
Back before Publish 9, Jedi had a limited, random ability to avoid a crackdown scan based on how advanced they were. Once they hit Padawan in the old system, a scan was basically guaranteed to be avoided with an automatic mind trick.
Jedi avoiding the scan, part 1
Jedi avoiding the scan, part 2
Those screenshots are my Jedi, then an Initiate, doing the auto-mind trick. It was one of the coolest things for immersion that happened in all my gaming experience.
Since publish 9, Jedi lost this ability. With the advent of these new GCW changes, there has never been a more compelling time to ask for this ability to return.
Perhaps either a Jedi could automatically do it (like the old system) based on how many skill points are invested in Jedi skills (i.e. a % chance to avoid a scan)... OR the useless Master Force Powers skill "Jedi Mind Trick" could be modified to be a shield or reactionary ability that would enable a Jedi to avoid the scans.
This would be immersive, true to the movies, and a way for Jedi to stay clandestine while traveling.
I thank you for your time and I eagerly await any comment you have. Thank you!
We are looking into this.
GreenMarine fixed this. Should be in the same publish as the GCW changes assumingthe fixpasses QA.
I second that, this is a great piece of Star Wars that will be wonderful to see in the game. It's one of the first glimpses we have of just how powerful the Force is, when Obi-Wan does the mind trick on that stormtrooper in Mos Eisley. It gets him and Luke out of a tight spot, and having this in the game will most definitely increase the Star Wars feel for everyone playing a Jedi.
Thanks GreenMarine and Cal!
Also, quick sidenote, in the above pic (part 2) the stormtrooper does /emote I don't need to see his identification. That ends up appearing as "GK-402 I don't need to see his identification." Maybe take the /emote out, and change it to a /think?
So, it'd be /think I don't need to see his identification. /say Move along, move along.
That way, GK-402 would think, "I don't need to see his identification." and then say "Move along, move along."
Might improve the immersion ever so slightly.
Thanks again.
Celgorn wrote:
Imperial soldier first, weilder of the dark side second, they can't have their own agenda in this game as it's not possible for them to go overt and decide to kill their own forces on a whim. If they could then I suppose it'd be fair lol, otherwise that's not acceptable.
Hmmm
I think that would be cool.
A DJK just on a whim, decides to start attacking LT. Smackers of the Imperial Army just because he felt like it. Now that REALLY sounds like a Dark Jedi.
JerethBane wrote:
Hylidex wrote:
"Currently most crafting professions require considerably more SP investment than most combat professions. For example, the actual cost of being a bio-engineer is 135 SP with no vendor. Wanting a machine-type vendor takes 24 more SP. (While a character builder may show BE as requiring 121 SP, it is impossible at present to be a fully practicing MBE without at least Exploration IV). By comparison, a master pistoleer requires 92 SP."
While I see your grater point, I would liek to let you knwo that some combat professions are in the exact same boat you are.
Sure, Master pistoleer takes 92 sp, but to be an -effective- pistoleer you need to invest sp into Smuggler, Bounty Hunter and/or Commando (as many, if not more SP than you would need even for Bio-Engineer)
Why don't you go pick on another combat prof, like Rifleman
I'm not a master pistoleer. I'm a master bioengineer with some pistoleer skills. The reason I chose pistoleer is that it is one profession that gives me some chance of defending myself against creatures I am sampling at the range I need to work in as a bio-engineer, without having to master and without draining my mind.This sounds like another round of great changes from SOE!
I have one HUGE request regarding the quote below:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
City Patrols & Scans
...The neutral police forces are loyal to the faction that controls the planet and some will conduct scans of passers by. The police will be searching for contraband such as illegal spices and sliced weapons (regardless of faction) or enemyfaction players (Rebel or Imperial)and will fine or attack as appropriate. Running away from a scan will continue to have the same effects (loss of faction). High ranking members of factional armies will be safe from scans if their faction controls that planet...
Cantina Crackdowns
...Officers from the controlling faction will occasionally check cantina patrons. While the Rebellion stands for personal liberty, they also understand that security is important during a time of war. Scans conducted by agents of the Rebellion will be done with the highest order of respect for the rights of those scanned. It is important to remember, though, that spices & sliced weapons are as illegal in Rebel controlled territory as they are in the Empire...
Based on those two paragraphs, it would appear that the Smuggler Professionfinally is starting to see some of the laws and strong penalties that will ultimately be needed to make Smuggler a viable profession instead of simply a Weapon- or Armorsmith'sassistant.
PLEASE continue to develop this line of content! You are laying a great framework here not only for the GCW overhaul but for the long-awaited Smuggler Revamp as well. With the changes you are detailing here, it shouldn't be too hard expand on this to finally give the Smugglers not only the ability but a reason to smuggle goods for other players as well as NPC's!
GREAT job SOE! Keep the changes and upgrades coming!
Arg0nus wrote:
Glad to see that someone else has the same concerns I do for the status of Crafters/Entertainers in this.
Earymi wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
Jeez people, we are not eliminating a Civilian/Neutral/Crafting lifestyle. But the GCW will affect the environment.
When we add things to one aspect of the game or another, we are not "squeezing" out everyone else. Opting-out to me means notengaging in the GCW combat. I sincerely doubt everyone will leave the crafts because combat and the GCW gets more interesting.
Jeez Tyrant...
As crafters, we were assured that there would be a way for non-combat professions to PARTICIPATE in the GCW, to feel a part of the star wars world and have an immersive experience. I'd love for you to explain to me how that happens as a "neutral/civilian".
The message is clear -- be a fighter, or opt out of the whole Star Wars universe/struggle. And I have to say that I resent the hell out of that message. The only option my crafting character will have is to resign from the rebel faction. How is that not being "squeezed" out?
I definitely have the same concerns. Initially I was just concerned with the scan teams and how that would work. Turns out we won't be attacked, we'll just get fined 1,000's of credits while justtrying to play some tunes inside of a cantina in Coronet or in Theed. Not a lot of fun, but better than getting killed left and right I guess.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 02-09-2005 07:44 AM
SOETyrant wrote:
Hylidex wrote:
Ruh wrote:
I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.
But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.
Hmmm. There are two messages that are clear in this thread:
1. "This is war. Pick a side or opt out."--Gordon Walton
2. "If you are not a combatant, don't join the war."
Put together, this means there is really no place left for primary crafters in the game. Most of the game content is becoming more and more exclusive to people who have joined a faction. Without faction alignment, you lose out on the majority of game content.
Currently most crafting professions require considerably more SP investment than most combat professions. For example, the actual cost of being a bio-engineer is 135 SP with no vendor. Wanting a machine-type vendor takes 24 more SP. (While a character builder may show BE as requiring 121 SP, it is impossible at present to be a fully practicing MBE without at least Exploration IV). By comparison, a master pistoleer requires 92 SP.
In current practice, combat-stacked professions are far, far more powerful than a typical crafter. Since the occupation forces are geared to take on the combat-stacked players, typical crafters get killed on a regular basis. While sliced armor and weapons may help a crafter survive such an attack, they also increase the probability of being scanned in the first place. Up until now, it has been only rebel crafters. Now it looks as if it will be both factions.
Honestly, I like the changes that are coming about. However, at some point it will be necessary to look at crafters' roles in the game, as they are steadily being squeezed out of more and more content. The real result of this will be more and more crafters turning to combat professions instead.
This affects all of us. If there are no weaponsmiths, then there will be only looted weapons. If there are no merchants, then there will be only the bazaar.
I'm sure there are many viable solutions to this issue. I just don't believe "if you want to be a crafter, don't join the war" is one of them, especially in light of Mr. Walton's statement.
Jeez people, we are not eliminating a Civilian/Neutral/Crafting lifestyle. But the GCW will affect the environment.
When we add things to one aspect of the game or another, we are not "squeezing" out everyone else. Opting-out to me means notengaging in the GCW combat. I sincerely doubt everyone will leave the crafts because combat and the GCW gets more interesting.
I think you failed to understand the good point being made above.
The problem isn't that "everyone will leave the crafts because combat and the GCW gets more interesting."
The problem is that people who are crafters won't be able to participate in the GCW.
Sure, the GCW is more interesting for those players who can wield weapons, but you don't seem to understand that crafters or Entertainers will not have fun getting attacked with no means of defending themselves - therefore NOT joining a faction, or dropping a faction.
People will NOT leave crafting professions, that is true. But, that is NOT the point being made above. People WILL leave factions, because the GCW as is being laid out for us does not involve them in any way at all, though they SUPPLY those people who participate in it.
Basically, admit that crafters and Entertainers have no place in this new GCW system. After admitting that, please reassure us that eventually we WILL be included in the GCW, in a fun and interactive way. I certainly hope this is an aspect of the upcoming GCW revamp.
Frankly, I am very, VERY nervous that your above statement implies that you can't fathom why crafters would want to take part in the GCW. Your statement above implies "we're not squeezing crafters out of content, we're improving the GCW for combat people!"
What I am afraid of is that, to you, GCW = combat professions. Crafters aren't being squeezed out of content to you, because the GCW isn't for crafters - so ummm.....where IS the part where crafters and Entertainers are part of the GCW? Because all I'm seeing in this new system is how easily it will be for crafters and Entertainers who are factioned to DIE a lot. Are crafters and Entertainers now cannon fodder for the players who this new system is geared towards? That's no fun.
Thanks, Mr. Walton!
Message Edited by Warryyr on 02-09-2005 07:52 AM
FantasticPlastic wrote:
It sounds good, except who goes to cities on Naboo besides Theed? I mean, who honestly spends time in Keren or Kaadara or whatever? Perhaps people might go to Eisley on Tatooine but really, I wish this affected the major cities like Theed and Coronet because that's where most players actually go.
O.
Well for a start Kaadara is where virualyevery BH go to get his high end missions, Espa is where the RP mainly are reckon this will be great for them.But yea I suppose it would be kinda wierd if a planet ends ups with every city being under a faction control except one but hey I am more than glad with what they are giving us .
Would be cool if this could off effected player city's too though......ppl of the opposing faction that controled the planet would really feel like they were in enemy territory to be forced to hang enemy banners on thier buildings
It's not what you do but how you do it