Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
Alii
Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:40 pm
#521
Covert receives a TEF for actions prescribed by a Mission. This is extremely problematic. The mission-taker accepts a mission after considering the theoretical difficulty. The TEF renders the mission at least potentially far more difficult than the rating would indicate. A character on a level 6 mission shouldn't have to worry about a TEF suddenly changing the level to "suicide".
I understand that the TEF is supposed to prevent Coverts from arbitrarily attacking what amount to pets of Overts. However, the NPCs and structures generated for a mission clearly have nothing to do with that and need to be taken outside of any TEF system.
Keltorr
Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:16 pm
#522
The reason players want to keep TEFs for missions is because overts love to attack low level guys doing factioned missions for their FP, not other equally good overts. This is part of the game as it is and I therefore am careful about running my missions, but I still don't think it should be this way.
Here is how it should be:
1) To do PvP, you MUST go overt.
2) If you are covert and attack a factioned NPC, you will receive a TEF which renders you vulnerable for 5 minutes ONLY to opposing NPCs, NOT players.
3) Covert players grouped with one overt player cannot attack opposing overt members. I actually don't fully agree with this, as I think you should be able to defend your group members, but I'm willing to push it forward WITH the other ideas I mention here, not just by itself.
This would mean that people can participate in the GCW without PvP. As it is, the main PvPers are powergamers who have the time and money to acquire superarmor and weapons (especially loot-only Exceptional, Legendary and high DoT weapons), that people who don't play 40 hours a week may not be able to get. PvP should be completely optional and overt only. No more of this going overt and camping someone's factioned mission crap.
I haven't really thought about Jedi that much so here are preliminary thoughts:
4) It was a good idea to eliminate the ability of covert Imperials to be able to attack any Rebel Jedi who ignite their sabers. Also a good idea to let all non-FRS Jedi choose their own factions.
5) Remove Jedi from the GCW, and create two new factions: Light and Dark Jedi. As far as PvP goes, they can only attack opposing overt Jedi.
triton1972
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:53 am
#523
Heres a radical idea: Give the power to the player.
Meaning a command /covert or /overt.
The player would need to go overt to do factional missions and to fight players of the opposite faction.
Butit would have to bemade so you cannot turn it off while in battle with a player of the opposite faction, PvP or PvE.
This may open thing up a bit in the GCW. And there wouldn't be a need for the temp TEF.
But it also will allow for player that just want to do PvE to so as long as is was not factional.
But to get envolved with the GCW you need to type the /overt command.
Whatdoes everybody else think about that?
ParnellOfBria
Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:21 am
#524
Summary:
- If you are covert, you can only assist another covertgroup mate. No assisting overts.
- If you are overt, you can assist anygroup mate under fire.
- If you are overt you can attack any covert fighting your allied NPCs, however their covert group members can defend them against you.
Here'ssome examples
a group of completelyCOVERT rebels is out hunting tie fighters in space around naboo. A group of completelyOVERT imperials comes a long and sees this. Obviously , the whole group of imperials is going to focus on 1 target at a time (if possible). They fire on player 1 rebel (covert reb), he tries to defend himself. Now,his group can assist him.
5 covert rebels and 1 overt rebel are fighting TIE fighters in space around naboo. A group of completely OVERT imps comes along, they attack a covert rebel. The overt rebel obviously can help, and the covert rebels can assist because the rebel that was attacked is covert.
a group of rebels, 1 overt, and 10 covert are hunting neutral hutt fighters in space around tatooine. A group of completely OVERT imperials comes along, and attacks the Overt rebel. The rebel coverts cannot help him, because the imps attacked the overt rebel. Also, the imps cannot attack the covert rebs, because they are not fighting imperial npcs and have no TEF.
a group of rebels, 1 overt, and 10 covert are hunting TIE fighters in space around tatooine. A group of completely overt imperials comes and attacks the overt rebel. None of the covert rebels can assist. Once the overt is dead, the imperials just leave because they are outnumbered.
Now obviously, it's up to the overt's to use their own discretion when engaging coverts, therefore activating the group TEF mechanism. If they only attack enemy overts, they will never get GTEF.
SirLithium
Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:34 am
#526
This would be extremely difficult to implement... but...
Has there been any discussion of implementing a PA TEF? Someone attacks a member of your Guild... they get a TEF for your Guild for the requisite amount of time? It would bring more people into the War, because coverts could then attack an interloper messing with your PvP personnel.
Just an idea, discussion is encouraged.
Has there been any discussion of implementing a PA TEF? Someone attacks a member of your Guild... they get a TEF for your Guild for the requisite amount of time? It would bring more people into the War, because coverts could then attack an interloper messing with your PvP personnel.
Just an idea, discussion is encouraged.
Tucari
Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:18 am
#528
Here is a bug. One thing that I noticed is that when an overt PvP, non-TEF, (s)he can enter a building. But once I (covert) start to heal this overt player who is not TEF, I become TEF and get kicked out of the building, whereas the overt PvP, non-TEF,still remains inside the building. This has been a problem in the game since Oct/Nov 2003, and still has not been resolved.
Malonesa
Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:05 am
#529
Some of the best PvP i've had in this game involved small groups and gTef's. On the other hand, some of the worse times has been as well.
Malonesa
Tucari
Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:53 am
#530
Here is another bug that I've noticed. Upon returning,from doing a faction mission, I've had coverts attack me while I'm TEF. But for some reason, because they weren't overt, I couldn't attack them. All the while they were attacking me because I'm TEF. This has happened quite frequently, and because of this problem, I refuse to do faction missions from within a city until its fixed.
Thrakhath
Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:14 am
#531
ParnellOfBria wrote:Summary:
- If you are covert, you can only assist another covertgroup mate. No assisting overts.
- If you are overt, you can assist anygroup mate under fire.
- If you are overt you can attack any covert fighting your allied NPCs, however their covert group members can defend them against you.
I like these suggestions, but if i am overt and die i would like to have the option to choose if i want to stay overt or become covert.
Dr_Wenren
Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:17 am
#532
I was thinking an alternative to group TEFs is breaking the TEF into an offensive and defensive TEF.
If you are in a group with an Overt faction member and heal them as a covert faction member you would get a defensive TEF. This would allow opposing overt faction members the option to attack you for supporting the overt. However,the defensive TEFed person isunable to attack them unless attacked first. Once attacked the defensive TEF would turn to an offensive TEF. You could assign a different color to the names of a Defensive TEFed person so people know they have the option to bring them in or ignore them for supporting the overt person. Once offensive TEFed the name would turn red as if they were overt.
Also by making a defensive TEF you could allow people to stay in buildings while Defensive TEFed. That would eliminate the getting booted from Cantina, and hospitals when you buff an overt person. That is a very frustrating problem when trying to prepare for PVP. Your in a cantina getting mind buffs from an entertainer. A guild member asks for buffs you land the first buff and boom your outside and miss the mind buffs. Or when you buff on top of a guild hall and get stuck up there for the TEF duration.
You could keep offensive TEFed people from entering buildings to keep people from hiding in buildings. This option would make a penalty to aiding an overt as the opposing group could pick off supporters one at a time unless they chose to go overt.
Making the people who attack faction NPCs would also get a Defensive TEF. This would prevent people from shooting a faction NPC in order to jump into a fight in a place like the Imperial Outpost or Theed. But maintaining the vulnerability you suffer from getting a NPC induced TEF.
Maryja
Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:24 pm
#533
I lke the diea of the Group TEF, because it allows amushes and other tactics. It's very simliar in concept to what happened in Jabba's palace in RotJ. If you could picture Luke as the overt and the others as coverts. I do however, believe that in it's current state it's too easily abused and too powerful.
I think at the basic level any covert grouped with one or more overts should automatically get a TEF and keep that TEF until they leave leave the group or there are no more overts in the group, at which time the normal five minute countdown will begin. I know that part has been suggested before by others, and it seems like a logical way to handle the situation to me.
However, I'd like to see a newspecial ability to allow coverts to stay covert when grouped. This most likely would be a squad leader ability, since it directly relates to tactics. It wouldn't be infallable, though,and it would have a counter-ability to "Detact Ambush" (which might fit well in the Ranger class... giving them some PvP purpose) which would make the coverts attackable by the other players in the ranger'sgroup when detected.
It would allow the group TEF to be used to fight in a guerilla warfare sort of way (which I think would be thematically appropriate for the RA, at the very least), while making sure it's counterable and balanced. At the same time it adds increased PvP functionallity to two professions.