Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
Xite
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:52 pm
#508
Well, I used to spend long periods of time overt, but unfortunately can't anymore due to the INSANE AMOUNT OF JEDI RUNNING RAMPANT... Gimme a freaking break... those of us who love PvP... can't anymore because there's 2-5 overt jedis at starports.... And being a ranged profession means that u stand absolutely no chance at all against them, i don't care how good you are....
Guess the GCW is now reserved for Jedi and melee professions... soo much for that... Guess they gotta do what they gotta do to make a buck, even if it listening to all the whiners saying "i want my jedi"!!!!... lol.
There should be 5 jedi per server that's it... make it random. They don't wake up one dayand say "Hey, I think i wanna be a Jedi now... Ya, i think i'll do that now". And those who think that's unfair should realize that it is how the cards fall sometimes... we don't always get what we want, that's what makes everything soo interesting. The whole large numbers of Jedi "fad" has got to go. What happens when practically everybody has a Jedi? What will there be left to want? Oh ya, that doesn't matter, they just need to stretch SWG out until the next game comes out, and those peeps who don't want to play SWG anymore can play those...lol.
If anybody at SOE actually reads this stuff, just let it be know that I've been playing this since launch... 3 accounts... and seriously doubt i'll be playing by the time Jump to Lightspeed is released... but who knows... i get bored alot.
Pvp used to be fun.... It was something i could do when i came home from work... whether it was me winning the fight with my friends or getting trounced by the enemy...
As for now, PvP is dead.
but hey, that's just my thoughts, i'm 1 person.... go please the masses...lol
Please revive it.
Pookie7
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:53 am
#509
I am a covert Reb. Last night at the starport a OVERT imp is standing right next to me. No big deal, I'm covert. I dont want to fight, my status as a reb is "secret". Everything is cool. Along comes an OVERT Reb. The Imp starts pummleing him into the ground (all the Imps said "Huzzah!")
The Reb is KD and loosing health fast so I use a stim B on him, I get a TEF. No Biggie, I still cant attack the Imp, But then he does an Area attack on us both. NOW I am relased and I can attack him. Up to that point there was really nothing I can do to the Imp. It was his attack on me that made me able to attack him back.
I think his AE attack made about 4 of us able to pummel him... anyway... what does a combat rating of 1204 or what ever mean? And how can you check it in game?
I like the currnet system except that cirtian things make us overt and we dont know it. When I was Master Squad Leader in a Solo group one of our member was doing reb missions. 1/2 across the planet I executed a the "RALLY" command and all us rebs got TEF'ed. Uncool if somone was in the IMP outpost on Dantoonie...
Reverand01
Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:17 am
#510
Sorryif I step on anyone's toes, but there are 22 pages and I don't feel like going through every post. So if I mention something that someone else has already I am sorry for that. But here are my opinions in the matter, these are only my opinions, please try not to take offence to them;
I love PvP but currently the only real way to PvP is to go out hunting for it or to schedule a duel. In my opinion you can't really go by everyone's complaint's, what you can do is look at the real problems and/or problems that may arise by doing something. I did scam through and I read a few post's about certain thing's and some I agree with, other's I don't. In order for people to understand what I mean it may be best to put them into examples.
GTEF:
1)I read a few post's discussing about makingpeople grouped with an Overt will get a TEF, now the problem I see that would arise from this is that it would cause most players to cast out Overt's, just because some one is Overt they may not accept them into the group in the fear of becoming a TEF. For example, I group with weaker player's as an Overt so I can use my Faction pet's to accumulate tougher missions for better XP or more Credits for the missions. I do this just to help out the newbie population that I accept into my Guild or just to help out a fellow player. To me just because some one needs help doesn't mean they should have to suffer with a TEF.
2)A good example of a GTEF war, (I will use AH as an example, small city.) 1 "Overt Imp" grouped with his 9 Covert buddies walks into AH, he attacks 1 "Overt Rebel" the Rebel loses due to the shier numbers of the Imp group. The 1 "Overt Rebel" now spawns in the Clone Lab, now making him a "Covert Rebel" he then get's 9 of his buddies, they group. The one Revengefull Rebel goes Overt, getting killed. But now 9 Covert Imp's are TEF'd to the 9 Covert Rebel's. The fight breaks out, people die, people clone, the people cloning have a TEF to the people who killed their members, this will go on untill every last Imperial is Covert. The only difference is that the Rebel's still have a Rebel Recruiter toDeclare at, so no matter how much the Imperial's try they will lose unless they leave before anything major happens. I only used Anchorhead as an example, this could very well of been Rebel's raiding Bestine or some other city on another planet.
3)Someone mentioned that if you see a Overt grouped with several member's does not mean you have to attack. I would like to comment by pointing out that it has nothing to do with "wanting" to PvP the Overt, it has everything to do with Defending yourself. I'm not going to hit peace when someone attacks me just because his buddies will TEF me, considering that even if I don't attack I am going to die either way. The only way to win in this situation is to "try" and run away. I say try because you can run, and they can run. You drive a speeder so do they. If they are involved so much as to get a group together to PvP, then they are involved enough to chase after you and hunt you down.
Helping Fellow players:
As the above player mentioned (And several others) they don't want to sit back and watch their buddy get mowed down, they should beable to help without getting a TEF. Here lies the problem I see happening;
1)You get 1 buffed or non-buffeddoesn't matterOvert running around grouped or non-grouped also doesn't matter killing Apposing faction players. The only problem is, the person hunting has a Master doctor friend with him. This person sit's back and heals his friend before he can die, thus making un-fair gameplay for the Apposing faction member. I can see this happening only because with all PvP you are going to run into people trying to figure out way's to over-power his aponent. The GTEF system is another way they try to get this advantage. My advice? If you want to beable to help fellow faction member's either; A) Go Overt yourself. or B) Let them deal with their ownproblems when becoming Overt.
As of right now these are the only things I can think of as it being 6am and I still haven't went to bed. But I for one think that just because you're Overt (For whatever reason's, buying faction pets, furniture, turrets, weapons, PvP,etc.) you shouldn't be afraid of a bunch of Covert Rebels they should be afraid of you. Please don't spam me for my opinion's as they are only my opinion's on certain matters. If you think otherwise, feel free to express your own examples or idea's.
Draethyl
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:33 am
#511
I still dont understand this...there is no such thing as fair when it comes to a war....that is what tef represents.
You go overt and join the war as an active member and you expect a fair fight. If you want a fair fight duel the person.
I love tefs of all sorts it promotes active players in the GCW. The only thing I think could be a solution to this that is fair and would promote the same activity. Is if you join a faction you are permantly Overt and if you dont want to be part of the GCW then you will be neutral.
Otherwise...there are only a few things tefs can be exploited on. Tefs ending in the middle of fights, and grouped members getting first shot.
So the simple fix is to keep people from ending tef till the combat or aggro'd person is no longer in that state, and to make all Faction players who are overt/covert in a group a viable target as much as any overt member.
I think these things would help enhance the game and limit most of the complaints about tefs...except those who dont want them in game...
WildThang
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:28 am
#512
Why is everyone whining so much.
It is not like your character really dies, you get set back afew days. The main problem with the CGW is it resembles more of a running gangfight than a war. As a covert rebel i expect to be exposed from time to time. When i am killed i am covert again, less some decay. Whats the problem.
Draethyl
Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:10 am
#513
I concur...its all about pride nothing to do about loss, cause you dont lose much when you die what abuff, some condition and some time....so there is no other explenation other then pure and simple pride..
Reverand01
Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:49 am
#514
For me what it comes down to is a lack of fun for a game that I paid $50 for and I still pay $15 a month for, not pride, and has nothing to do with whining. I don't want to sit around all day offering duel's to people and the fact is Rebel's and Imperial's are suppose to beable to kill eachother if they notice one another. The problem is that most PvP war's come down to one big TEF war, it could be the best player in the game, but as long as you have a GTEF going on he will get his *** handed to him. A lot of player's like this advantage, but I know that everyone that loves a fair PvP fight will agree that when it seems like a 1 on 1 fair fight and all of a sudden a bunch of his TEF'ing buddies join in after the first shot and stab you in the back, the fun is over. GTEF has it's advantage's, but in my opinion the dissadvantage's out weigh them all. I can't count how many time's I've seen it happen, a player get's killed by a higher skilled player and he get's his revenge by getting a bunch of his guild mates or friend's in a big group to GTEF the guy. This wouldn't be a problem if they gave him a chance to get some hit's in there, but when he can't see what's coming at him how is he going to defend himself against it? Especially when it's 5 to 1 and all 5 get the first shot in (aka, stab him in the back).
This is why I don't even bother to PvP any more, to me it used to be a daily thing, that was the whole point in getting my character so skilled, now it seems pointless. I mean if I die in a PvP great, no harm done, now you don't even get a decay (Except from griefers who watch you die 3 times), but it's the fact that by myself I don't even stand a chance unless I go hunting for unexpecting Overt's, then hurry up and leave that area before he comes back with his GTEF'ing buddies. What it all comes down to, is that everyone deserve's a fair fight, the people who use GTEF as their advantage are no better thanplaying a FPS and sticking 5+ peopleon a team vs. 1, or maybe a1 vs 1, but one is a hacker, you can't see him, but he can see you (Only my opinion). The people who complain about GTEF and the abuser's aren't whining, they aren't interrested in Pride, all they want is to beable to have a fair fight a decent percentage of the time without having to search for a duel.
If you can't see this or you are unable to understand what I am trying to point out, you are either a GTEF'er yourself, or you're not a big PvP player. But I am sure that a plenty amount of people will agree with me on this, maybe not on everything, but on what's important, which is that a good step in the right direction would be to remove the GTEF system.
Draethyl
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:38 am
#515
The fact is...Until they make certain changes there is no GCW currently. Jedi or No..Tefs or No etc etc.
I just cant wait till faction armor to be of some use that way we can actually see overts running around in proper attire...would make me very happy.
Just a few corrections and I think we would have ourselves a winner in the GCW but might as well not worry about getting killed pvping when we have lots more to worry about then a death or two..
Draethyl
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:44 am
#516
What it all comes down to, is that everyone deserve's a fair fight, the people who use GTEF as their advantage are no better thanplaying a FPS and sticking 5+ peopleon a team vs. 1, or maybe a1 vs 1, but one is a hacker, you can't see him, but he can see you (Only my opinion). The people who complain about GTEF and the abuser's aren't whining, they aren't interrested in Pride, all they want is to beable to have a fair fight a decent percentage of the time without having to search for a duel.
If you can't see this or you are unable to understand what I am trying to point out, you are either a GTEF'er yourself, or you're not a big PvP player. But I am sure that a plenty amount of people will agree with me on this, maybe not on everything, but on what's important, which is that a good step in the right direction would be to remove the GTEF system.
Once again there is no such thing as fair in a war or a fight to the death..if you cant understand that then trying being 1 overt against 7 overts..its no different really then being 1 overt against 1 overt and 6 gtef except for one problem.
The Gtefs not being viable targets until they attack you.
So there is no reason to remove GTefs...because you can come to a compromise make ALL faction grouped members tefed when a fight breaks out.
The problem with Gtef'rs and those who dont like Gtefing is there is no room for comprimise...its either go or stay; no lets see how we can make this good for all of us.
Renaldo_Stormbringer
Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:44 am
#517
I'd like to ask why Neutrel faction members, such as myself, cannot attack factional NPCs and receive the appropriate TEF accordingly. I play a Neutral character, in part because I find it most appropriate for a Bounty Hunter to be un-aligned, and because PvP has always left a very bad taste in my mouth. I realize that not all PvPers are jerks and simply enjoy that aspect of gameplay, but a great many are just griefers, plain and simple. They go out of their way to ruin the game experience for others simply because they can. Again, not ALL PvPers fall into this category, but I've ran into enough that do to stay away from open PvP.
That said, I WOULD like to participate in the GCW in some capacity. Just because I am not a loyal member of either the Rebel or Imperial faction should not preclude my taking hostile actions against NPCswhen I deem it appropriate. I play a Bounty Hunter, after all. I'd attack anyone if the motivehappened to suitmy purposes. I would gladly accept the risk of PvP, by receiving a TEF,as a consequence of attacking a factional NPC. I'd just like to have the option.
There may be ways of exploiting such a system, and I've simply not thought of any. Bottom line: it irks me that I can't fire off a blast with my LLC at the ST standing right in front of me. I may die for doing it, or I may not ... depends on the situation, but again, I'dlike the option.
Vendras
Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:57 am
#518
I agree with that 100%. Neutrals get screwed over in the entire process. I mean, if neutrals can't do the same things as the Rebel or Imperial factions, then why do it? Make Neutral faction actually WORTH something. You took the time to invent it, so go ahead and make it playable. I like PvP. I 100% think it is a valuable part of the game. I can see everyones arguments. With that said, I agree with the fact that if someone is overt, then they are going to get attacked. Regardless of the size of the other persons group. That was THEIR choice to get a tef. Not the other peoples. There is no fair fight in that instance. This player thinks they are either good enough to be able to walk around with one, or they think they can slide into a place un-noticed. Either way, they are asking for it.
But the biggest issue with tef's I've seen is a group vs. group tef. This happened to myself and my guild members last week. We were hunting jedi, and when we found said jedi, they had a nice gank squad with her, as we expected. So when the BH that had the mission attacked, only 3 out of our 7 members got tef's for the other group, while their entire group got tef's on them. So there was nothing we could do except watch. This is at least the second or third time this has happened to me. And I've heard about it happening as well, so I know it wasn't a fluke occurance. So, IMHO:
1) Leave the group tef's as they are.
2) Give the jedi their tef's back.
3) Fix the group vs. group tef problem
4) Allow Neutrals the ability to attack either factional NPC
5) Make the entire Neutral faction mean something...other than nothing.
Stubi
Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:39 pm
#519
The only problem I have with TEF is not being able to enter any building or house (even your own house) while you have a TEF. Why is it like that? I don't do pvp but I do do faction missions and there have been times that right after a faction mission I wanted/needed to log out in my own house but can't because I have a TEF. If you won't change the no enter when your flaged then why not change it so a person can enter his/her own house while he/she has a TEF? If your worried about someone abusing it then make it so you can enter any public building while you have a TEF flag. That way someone ofthe other faction can still get in to fight.
Oh and another sugestion is to place a timer near the TEF flag so you know when your TEF is done. It was sugested earlier on this thread and I think it would be a great idea..
GoofyTruax
Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:43 pm
#520
Ok I have a problem with TEFs. I was doing faction missions. Some guy that was overt camped out on my mission. He got there before I did. When I shot my first NPC I started being attacked by the guards. He then came up behind me and attacked. Since I had 3 NPC's shooting me it was not obvous that he was shooting me. When I noticed I ran to drop the NPC attack but the damage was done because he followed me. I think this is sleezy game play. He incaped me then gave me a death blow then danced on my corpse. Unlucky for him I was right out side my guide town and one of our guide Jedi came and waxed him. Any way I digress my point is that on my radar screen the NPC's became read when I TEFed but the PvP guy stayed blue like a neutral on covert imp. If NPC's show red when I am TEFed then overt Imps should too.