Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
Belthamel wrote:
... the only drawback is that it makes being declared a lot more dangerous.... but heck.... the Star Wars Universe is a dangerous place. If you cant handle being overt... then dont be overt... bottom line. Make overts consider wether allowing everyone to know what side they choose is really such a good idea.
You know, I personally think that an individual declaring overt or covert is silly. Being "overt" should mean wearing uniforms or insignia. Being an "overt" American means I fly a flag outside my front door and maybe wear red, white, and blue boxers on the 4th of July. Being an "overt" Christian means I wear a crucifix and talk about the Bible and stuff. Being overt should be more of a function of what you do, and how publically you do it.
If you attack a stormtrooper and no one sees you do it, it should have less of an impact than doing the same thing in a crowded starport. If TEF's were applied based on how many people witnessed an act, then a history of those could be tracked and used to calculate your "reputation." Being witnessed doing factional things by higher ranking people of an opposing faction should be weighted higher. Then based on your reputation, there should be a chance that anyone who sees you might "recognize" you and know your faction affiliation by site. The chance of recognizing someone else might, again, be based on your rank in your own faction. I'd also say that many facilities should have surveillance points, like CCTV cameras, so you may be witnessed doing something even though it appears no one is around, but that those could be disabled under some circumstances.
Additionally, you'dhave reputations (like faction points, but not FP's) in multiple factions. If you play both sides against the middle, you could well end up being recognized as a Rebel sympathizer by Imps, and an Imp sympathizer by Rebels at the same time. It'd suck being you then. 
Finally, some reputation "points" should expire as the deeds that invoked them are forgotten while other rep points could maybe be erased by certain missions -- maybe sneaking into a base to erase some records, intercepting a courier, and so on. Lots of possibilities.
Becuse of the last patch I find my self posting here to get more into the planing and growth of the game. Why should I complain if I don't input somthing so I will start here.
I have not read all the post on this threed. But it seems to me that some classes and some player rank should beable to just grant Overt status to other players. A aptain or higher hould beable to /makeovert commands to players. OR a smuggler class might beable to hack in and do it to.
My thinking is that the Dev team was going to a Player run system. Where players took care of most of the operations of the game. One of the reasons there are not a lot of NPC merchants around. So this would add a little to the "Player" Run aspect of the game.
If this was already sugested sorry for duping.
(I won't put my useual signiture here.)
Remember, It's not just a game. It's a monthly Expence. 
This board has grown quite a bit since my last post, and a lot of good arguements have been made on both sides. The key issue here, as I see it, is that there is a difference between fixing the/declare option to eliminate griefing and fixing the /declare option to be more logical.
Logically, if I were a Rebel Sympathizer and I saw an Imperial Officer, I could shoot him. . . whether he knew I was his enemy or not. This, however, is seen as griefing by many.
Logically, this aggressive action would "flag" me as a terrorist. On the other hand, logically, an Imperial Officer isn't going to be running around unescorted.
The solution is not an easy one, because it requires many changes to key systems of the game.
1) Imperials should get more troops, and more NPC support than Rebels for the same Faction Cost.
2) "Flagged" Rebels should not have access to any Starports and very few Shuttleports.
3) "Flagged" Rebels could be made attackable by Neutrals wishing to support the government.
4) Rebel Recruiters (providing new cover ID's) should be in hidden and remote locations.
5) "Flagged" Rebels are required to payFaction Pointsfor a new Covert Identity.
6) The FP cost of a new identity wouldbeequal to 1/10 the player's negative IMP faction rating.
Who's notgoing to think twice before griefing an IMP officer when theyknow that they have to travel overland with every IMP (Overt, Covert, and NPC) AND a collection of Neutrals huntingthem down and then still have to pay 500 FP's to get theirflag removed?
Tam Darkfell (Intrepid) / Vendt Darkfell (TC)
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
As with many others, I do not see a problem here. In my opinion, having this strategy would be an excellent way to make the GCW feel more like an actual WAR, and less like what it currectly feels like.
Doesn't it make sense that the Rebels or the Imperials would do that very thing: move in a group of troops, disguised as average citizens, and then launch a surprise attack? And then, in addition, any covert members of the opposing faction could then declare and help their fellow troops! In addition, most people who have played long enough to be participating in the GCW KNOW who their local opposing faction PCs are... so when they see them and 50 other blue-dots hanging around, they'll know what's going to happen anyway. This just adds a bit of fun to things.
If you're worried about factional bases, the solution was already proposed and is quite simple: if you're not a faction member, you should not be allowed inside the base... so that would never be a problem.
In addition, I also like the idea of making high-ranking PCs able to be a declarepoint. That is also a good option, and would lead to its own interesting tactics. Both of these things would add some realism in the GCW, which is a good thing.
How about you are able to be able to declare anywhere but a notice comes up on overt members screeens of the opposing factions aanouncing your declaration and the overt member gets a 3-5 second TEF window on the covert member
Uthgar LavenforthIf a group of rebels invade an imperial base, with enough success that all defending imperials (including npc's) are dead, then perhaps the base could temporarily be considered a rebel base with any hardware associated with the base (such as a covert faction scanner) working for them, instead of against them. Any imperial pc's that return could not move into the base covert because the faction scanner would tef them.
Personal faction scanners would also prevent ambush by covert armies, although it would make covert travel a little hairy, should you unwittingly cross the path of an overt rebel with a scanner. After all the purpose of the covert status is to allow players to back out of PvP without losing their perks - regardless of what other meanings we might attach to it. I guess for that reason alone it shouldn't be allowed to be used as a tactical tool.
What about overt players not showing on conventional radar? Overt players would then, potentially, be able to sneak up on opposing overt players, but once sighted would be instantly attackable.
Anyway, must... sleep.....
Oops. Wasn't meaning to go quote the movies lol
Sal
A good point was madeabout becoming overt in an area that is held by enemies. That should always be true to some degree. perhaps you shouldn't be able to declare overt with 128m of someone of an opposite faction.
Covert makes sense to me. Anyone in themilitary gets R&R. That's what covert is... Covert is also a tool so that people who don't like PvP can participate in the GCW (as little as it exists.) Not everyone is in the ARMY - some of us are in the CIA ... CIA folks cannot wear uniforms, but can pretend to be ATF offers when making a raid. How is that for an analogy?
The ideas of visibility as it applies to Rebels & Imperials makes a lot of sense. I would REALLY like it ifI could witness a battle and then go and put a bounty on so and so for deathblowing a fellow member of my faction. So many times I've seen people camping starports and such - and I just wish I could put a bounty out for them...(not just becauseI don't like them - which as StarWars as that may be is way too griefable.)
I know most hardcore PvP'er will love to have Bounty Hunters chase after them (24-7-365.) Heck if I was hardcore into pvp I'd want to have BH come after me. That's cool. You should get a badge for killing a bounty hunter who tries to collect on you. That badge should update as you successfully repel bounty hunters. THEN you'll hear a PvP'er boasting about their badge... This kind of badge should make you ALWAYS targetable (anyone should be able to collect the reward to some degree on you.) If you get killed you loose the badge (an all bounties on you will be over too.) {Perhaps the Jedi should earn this kind of badge too - but it should only be visible to Bounty Hunters... thus when they get killed they don't get tripple jeopordy - also a BH who didn't have the assignment could get paid some part of the bounty.... To keep it economic - the playerbounties should require player credits...
TEF to me doesn't make sense when I go in kill everyone in the mission area (before they even draw their weapons) and then I have to wait 5 minutes to walk into a vendors tent???
About visibility - why are my factories & installations labeled with my faction? Why are my badges visible for all to see??
</rant>
(Back to grinding medical...)
Logically, if I were a Rebel Sympathizer and I saw an Imperial Officer, I could shoot him. . . whether he knew I was his enemy or not. This, however, is seen as griefing by many.
It could be griefing if there was no consequence. However, if doing so could earn you a reputation as a Rebel, eventually making you overt whether you want to be or not, then people might be less inclined to "grief" this way.
Logically, this aggressive action would "flag" me as a terrorist. On the other hand, logically, an Imperial Officer isn't going to be running around unescorted.
And even if he is, there may be covert Imps or neutral "sympathizers" who could flag you as a terrorist (a.k.a. Rebel)
The solution is not an easy one, because it requires many changes to key systems of the game.
Gotta agree with you there!
1) Imperials should get more troops, and more NPC support than Rebels for the same Faction Cost. /agree
2) "Flagged" Rebels should not have access to any Starports and very few Shuttleports. unless/until they buy back their covert status (as in #5 below) -- there should be a chance of them getting through undetected, and that chance should be based on Imperial presence. However this shouldn't be implemented until personal starships are available to give Rebs a way to still travel between planets (and a whole new set of risks are introduced, as well they should be).
3) "Flagged" Rebels could be made attackable by Neutrals wishing to support the government. /disagree -- The way they'd do this is to announce to overts that the person is a Rebel. They can /shout or /tell someone they know. Otherwise there's too much of an opportunity to grief.
4) Rebel Recruiters (providing new cover ID's) should be in hidden and remote locations. /amen -- the idea of running into a town and finding a recruiter flying a Rebel flag is ludicrous. I'm sure that coalition special forces are looking for Osama Bin Laden by running around the Middle East looking for Al Qaeda flags. /smirk
5) "Flagged" Rebels are required to payFaction Pointsfor a new Covert Identity. /agree -- that is, big fat hairy AGREE. This is a great idea. Rebels are all covert until they build a rep and are forced overt by circumstances. They then need to pay faction points to erase the "overt". Maybe they have to pay an image designer, too, to change their appearance? They can still be made generally recognizable by other Rebels, so they can spot each other. This would make Reb double agents a possibility, because they could maybe /snitch on other Rebs to overt Imps.
6) The FP cost of a new identity wouldbeequal to 1/10 the player's negative IMP faction rating. /agree and as I said above, if your reputation got to a certain point, then maybe an image designer would have to get involved.
Who's notgoing to think twice before griefing an IMP officer when theyknow that they have to travel overland with every IMP (Overt, Covert, and NPC) AND a collection of Neutrals huntingthem down and then still have to pay 500 FP's to get theirflag removed?
Tam Darkfell (Intrepid) / Vendt Darkfell (TC)
Very, very cool ideas.
ShaiarLi wrote:
3) "Flagged" Rebels could be made attackable by Neutrals wishing to support the government. /disagree -- The way they'd do this is to announce to overts that the person is a Rebel. They can /shout or /tell someone they know. Otherwise there's too much of an opportunity to grief.
Thanks for the response! I understand there are some issues with Neutrals being trigger-happy, but I included it for two reasons.
1) I personally would like to see more player-driven content and this would give Neutrals a method to gain IMP faction without having to resort to NPC's and mission terminals.
2) It would allow Smugglers to play both sides of the GCW and make their ability to sell FP (information) more viable. I don't think anyone would disagree that Smugglers need more to do. Hopefully with the Space Expansion they will be able to provide trips for flagged Rebels as you mentioned. /cross fingers.
Tam Darkfell (Intrepid) / Vendt Darkfell (TC)