Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
Darth_Maximus
Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:57 am
#495
I don't like PvP. I do like playing either Imperial or Rebel. I think get rid of TEF altogether: no healing/trading/buffing/PvPing between covert and overt, period. I don't see why aanyone doing a factional mission vs. NPC has to endure getting attacked by overt players.
somerandomuser
Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:09 pm
#496
as a CM/pistoleer the following actions will cause me to get a tef (and usualyy die not long after 8p)
healing an overt member of my faction (any of the medic/cm heals/stims/abilities incl fastheal and mindheal and wound heals)
trading with an overt member of my faction
healing a covert member of my faction that is currently TEF'd will cause me a tef
those are the only ones i know for certain.. i'd assume that trading with tef'd allies as well.. but haven't had the chance to verify in a 'controlled envorionment'
now for the 'off topic' portion although it's related..
proposition for overt/covert tef system..
implement system to adhere to the following..
TEF will be forever refered to as 'Temporary Engagement Flag" will still last 5 minutes.. will still boot you out of buildings.. nothing more
players will be able to declare Overt at any recruiter.. or using the /declareOvert command (i believe that's the command.. not certain but i know there's one in there)
any overt can attack opposing overts..
any overt can heal friendly overts..
any covert wishing to take action to heal/trade friendly overts will recieve popup notification explaining that doing this action will reveal their faction status and will render them overt..
any covert wishing to take action against an enemy will recieve siilar popup inforiming them they will go overt from this action..
reduce overt to covert transition period to 30 minutes
alternatively have that popupbox instead provide just the message saying you must first /declareovert to perform that action.. (probably the better solution in hindsight)
this would alleviate group TEF issues..
this would also allieviate the issue that arises when i catch TEF's from healing friendlies who are TEF'd and not overt.. as currently i have no way to distinguish which friendlies are 'on the run'
some other things that could be done to 'spice things up a bit'.. 'DeclaredImperial, DeclaredRebel' global names for building access lists... faction 'access fees' to enter buildings (would love to see a town where you had to pay in FP to enter the med center or use the shuttleport 8) in addition to the credit cost..
just my noob thoughts on the subject.. (still haven't hit 30 days yet.. heh)
healing an overt member of my faction (any of the medic/cm heals/stims/abilities incl fastheal and mindheal and wound heals)
trading with an overt member of my faction
healing a covert member of my faction that is currently TEF'd will cause me a tef
those are the only ones i know for certain.. i'd assume that trading with tef'd allies as well.. but haven't had the chance to verify in a 'controlled envorionment'
now for the 'off topic' portion although it's related..
proposition for overt/covert tef system..
implement system to adhere to the following..
TEF will be forever refered to as 'Temporary Engagement Flag" will still last 5 minutes.. will still boot you out of buildings.. nothing more
players will be able to declare Overt at any recruiter.. or using the /declareOvert command (i believe that's the command.. not certain but i know there's one in there)
any overt can attack opposing overts..
any overt can heal friendly overts..
any covert wishing to take action to heal/trade friendly overts will recieve popup notification explaining that doing this action will reveal their faction status and will render them overt..
any covert wishing to take action against an enemy will recieve siilar popup inforiming them they will go overt from this action..
reduce overt to covert transition period to 30 minutes
alternatively have that popupbox instead provide just the message saying you must first /declareovert to perform that action.. (probably the better solution in hindsight)
this would alleviate group TEF issues..
this would also allieviate the issue that arises when i catch TEF's from healing friendlies who are TEF'd and not overt.. as currently i have no way to distinguish which friendlies are 'on the run'
some other things that could be done to 'spice things up a bit'.. 'DeclaredImperial, DeclaredRebel' global names for building access lists... faction 'access fees' to enter buildings (would love to see a town where you had to pay in FP to enter the med center or use the shuttleport 8) in addition to the credit cost..
just my noob thoughts on the subject.. (still haven't hit 30 days yet.. heh)
Persamus
Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:54 am
#497
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One of the ongoing community discussions is the GCW, PvP and the issue of TEF's. TEF's exist because we have a mix of playstyles with a PvP switch. Overts are PvP all the time and Covert's are PvP sometimes. Because of this situation, there are a list of actions that happen in the game that cause a player to get a "Temporary Enemy Flag" that makes them Overt for a short period of time or prevents them from trading to an enemy, etc.
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Well, perhaps another "solution" could be to create another classification. I think many people want to experience the story of Star Wars, but do not want to engage in PvP aspects of the game, while still "playing" a rebel or imperial. The problem comes in with the automatic assumption that all players who choose a faction want to or are willing to engage in PvP. As most players who choose a faction play covert most of the time, a TEF was added to allow for opposing factions to attack the player in question when that player engaged in an act that could concievably reveal them to the enemy. Now the problem is that we have a couple of different issues here. PvE and PvP, and problems with TEFs as a game mechanic.
In order to alleviate some of these issues, another set of classifications could be created. Allow each player who joins a faction to set at that time whether they want to engage in PvP or not. In each case, a player could be covert or overt, though if a person simply chooses to be PvE, the consequences would be limited to PvE. Allow for a player to chage this status, but as with going overt to covert, it takes time. This would prevent many of the abuses of the system, and allow all players to be more comfortable in their respective roles.
This would also allow for greater freedom for PvE players who dread the constant threat of getting a TEF and being attacked by an opposing Jedi, who would usually catch them in a vulnerable state, thus creating much of the grief expressed in these posts. With PvE and PvP players, simply disallow direct aid, healing, trading, etc., in other words, the actions that would cause TEFs.
I know there are some who truly believe that the purpose of this game is to engage in the galactic civil war, and that those who choose to be rebel and imperial are therefore a part of that and therefore a part of the PvP system. I disagree with this opinion, and fervently hope that the developers can see that there are many players who simply wish to enjoy the game on a personal, rather than head to head level. Please allow for players who wish to enjoy the ambiance of the game this choice, and let them be rebels and imperials without having to face the prospect of a sudden death from another player, who will only taunt them and ruin their game experience.
Thank you
MeerPlainsman
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:01 am
#498
Persamus wrote:Well, perhaps another "solution" could be to create another classification. I think many people want to experience the story of Star Wars, but do not want to engage in PvP aspects of the game, while still "playing" a rebel or imperial. The problem comes in with the automatic assumption that all players who choose a faction want to or are willing to engage in PvP. As most players who choose a faction play covert most of the time, a TEF was added to allow for opposing factions to attack the player in question when that player engaged in an act that could concievably reveal them to the enemy.
I agree that the TEF can cause problems for players. This is most critical for new players to the game. My first experience with PvP due to a TEF was of an unwilling nature and took me completely by surprise. I had been playing the game for about 3 weeks and had just started running faction missions in a player city. My combat skills weren't that high yet, and I was bettering my rifle abilities while gaining faction points at the same time.
I was sitting on my swoop at the mission terminal, when all of a sudden a player came up to me and started owning me. After he killed me (without any fight from me, as I was sitting on my swoop and unable to defend myself), he proceeded to destroy my bike. Fortunately for me, there was a bug in the game (at the time) which allowed me to re-enable my disabled swoop simply by storing and regenerating my swoop from the city that I cloned in. Had there not been this bug, and my precious bike been permanently destroyed, I may have been embittered to the game.
To say the least, I was pretty frustrated and had a few choice words to share with my assailant. I had no idea that due to my TEF (I barely understood the concept of a TEF as a new player), I was an open target for opposing faction members.
As a new player, I had neither the skill nor the understanding to undertake PvP. There needs to be a way for new/young players to engage in faction play without opening themselves up for brutal assassination by opposing faction players. One should be able to at least get the requisite 200 faction points to join a faction before any TEF is given for faction jobs.
As an advanced and experienced player who understands the PvP/TEF system, I don't have any qualms about it. I think it is very reasonable to be brought temporarily to an "overt" status if you are destroying a faction base/target. I have alot of fun "defending" my faction bases/targets from enemy attack; I also think it is realistic and fun to have the potential of an overt player coming up to defend the faction (PvE) target that you are trying to destroy. We just need to have an exemption from this system for new and/or inexperienced players.
MeerPlainsman
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:09 am
#499
Dr_Nalio wrote:1) I think the possibility of being turned overt in a crackdown scan adds a little bit of excitement to the game. Most of the time nothing happens, but the other day I got recognized, turned overt, and I thought it was loads of fun. Fighting my way out of the city and figuring out where I could get to a recruiter without running into overt imps. Then figuring out where to hide for an hour, or defending yourself for an hour is pretty fun too. I agree it can be annoying if you're just checking harvesters or about to log off, but it really doesn't happen very often. If you think about it, it makes sense. Rebels should be worried about being recognized by troopers as they jet around to different planets.
I agree with this statement. I've had loads of fun after being "discovered" by a crackdown scanner. However, were I a young and inexperienced player with barely 200 FP and hardly any combat skills, this would be devastating. As a player with millions of credits, TKM meditate, etc. it doesn't bother me that much to be killed. As a young/new player with hardly any credits however, paying the cloning/insurance fees after being killed because I was made overt by a crackdown scan would be expensive and frustrating.
SabreMonkey
Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:56 am
#500
Any TEF pvp is going to be a gank as things stand. One really big problem is that you don't get a loading time amnisty with TEF.
The TEF should exist for faction PvE play only.
The TEF should exist for faction PvE play only.
hambokc7mrp
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:57 pm
#501
I am a doc sitting in the cantina, an overt comes in(his ham does not show him as overt by the way only his title which is hard to see) and asks for a heal.
so out of the kindness of your heart you toss the heal,
only to get a TEF and get kicked from the building.
if you are inside a building you should not be able to get a TEF by some one else that is authorised to be in the building.
the TEF should be suspended once inside.
maybe set it up so an overt gets a type of tef so he can not enter a building for a time after combat.
that would make it so anyone inside the building/cantina is not engauged in currant combat operations.
TEF and dragging I think in PvP and faction combat a medic or doc should only get a TEF while accually dragging
a person and not much longer unless they are engauged by an opposing side.
make profs more specialised. (my example is a fantasy example) but in a good group you need your tanks to slud it out with the mobs and you need your scouts which can do damage to the mobs but usually cant take or deal as much ther you have a healer and you have a mage these guys are very light weight on defience but can nuke it the group gets in trubble.
the healers and enchanters and mages need to be protected by the rest of the group.
if combat in SWG had true slots that could be filled by specific profs. that would enhance the game.
make it so the tanks, fighters can accually protect there healers and from enemys
I would love to hear about an imp invasion a day or two in advance and ie. be standing by at the rebel outpost when drop ships start landing and dumping out stoorm troopers and ATSTs for like days maybe find a way to track the efforts of the differant guilds that take part and put them on a forum or on a email.
hambokc7mrp
Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:09 pm
#502
Heal an Overt? Go Overt.
That was not very well thought out.
I am a doc and it is imposable for me to go around overt with out getting killed.
if this was put into place, the result would be, if you want a heal or a buff you have to go covert.
rebels or imps
Fobik
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:21 am
#503
You take away faction pets to pvp only....you reduce faction pets to one...they basically get 5 hit in a battle and die for a stupid faction cost even at colonel.
You finally have 90% of the bugs removed from bases..only took you a year..congrats on completing beta 1.2
If you heal someone tefed your tefed to the group but cannot fight back until they attack you...
My fix all suggest is this.
A quest that you can run 1 x a day to get an item in inventory that when used makes you overt. Remove tef totally. Remove the ability to HEAL an overt from a player unless they are overt. ALl your problems are fixed...OR
Overts fight overts..you heal an overt you go overt...I personally vote for this system. Screw tef it is BS. Just take it out..if you want to pvp go overt. Only question is ..what about faction NPCs. You attack a faction NPC you go overt..pure and simple. Remove tef...it is like Hillary Clinton....just makes you nausiated to think about it.
VOTE TEF = OVERT
Fobik
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:24 am
#504
Heal an Overt? Go Overt.
That was not very well thought out.
I am a doc and it is imposable for me to go around overt with out getting killed.
if this was put into place, the result would be, if you want a heal or a buff you have to go covert.
rebels or imps
Oh we are so sorry this inconviences you. Drs can get killed in this game liek the rest...a little inconvience of running to a recruiter to save ALL THE HASSLE..I vote for it and I am a Doc
Fobik
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:32 am
#505
JEDI HEALERS NOT GETTING TEF's IS BS
GCW IS DONE BECAUSE OF LIGHTSABER BEING UNSTOPPABLE
I have a guild of over 70 players, debating on what to do, we will no longer play in the GCW as it is until this lightsaber joke is fixed, or we get armor to defend... plus jedi healers can heal an overt jedi and not get tefed ... but docs do ....
You guys need to re evaluate your whole revamp, some stuff is great, but a lot of it has ruined the GCW.
GCW was dead long before revamp.
Jedi Healers not getting TEF is just another exaple that TEF is dumb..heal an overt go overt
Everything that is GCW......Troopers.....Rebel invasions.....not in the game
MAKE OVERT OVERT
REMOVE TEF
RESTORE FACTION PETS
RESTORE THE FUN
Tionne
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:59 am
#506
The group TEF is obvioulsy a problem.
I am not a PvPer. I enjoy PvE very much. I enjoy grouping, roleplaying, etc. The occasional PvP is funso I like that I can turn it on and off.I like that you get a TEF from attacking a stormtrooper.
I HATE that when I get scanned by a stormtrooper I am forced OVERT. Not a TEF, but DECLARED. And I'm stuck that way until I can talk to a rebel recruiter. That is NOT consensual PvP. This happens to me very frequently at Mos Espa, and then I have to go to Anchorhead to try to go Covert, but, oh yeah, Overt Imps hound Anchorhead, and even if I can get to the recruiter and away unscathed I have to be a hermit for an hour before I can go anywhere. Or I have to "game" the game and have someone kill me to do it the "quick" way.
I LIKE the scanning the stormies do. I think it's cool. I LIKE that if you're carrying contraband or they somehow magically know I'm a Rebel that I can get attacked. But for the love of Lucas make it a TEF and do NOT force me Overt!
Thanks for your time 
SkyPreacher1
Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:14 am
#507
YOOHOO DUNDERHEAD,
There is no GCW. How can there be when you make imperials easy to kill? When there is no plan to incorporate running battles. You see GCW should be running all the time between NPC's. Large squads of Imperial Dark Troopers, with 5 or 6 ATST's and 4 or so Dark Jedi should come sweeping into Dearic and surrounding area. A contingent of NPC Rebel commandos etc. begin a running battle.
It spreads into the cantina and out on the streets, and the instant you are a certain distance away, if you are a rebel you become overt, if you are an Imperial you become overt. If you rank high enough you should have the ability to command certain troops of the NPC's directing them and their fire on the Rebel forces and vice versa.
What we got now is farming Imps and Rebs.
THis isn't war this is a farce.