Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IT 6-6: Imperial Crackdown: Some changes made based on In-Test Feedback
TheMDude wrote:
Especially since there is nothing keeping you from taking a person's stuff and running off with it. The smugglers seem to keep ignoring this though....
Just like nobody forces you to carry around contraband or get your gear sliced, nobody forces you to trade with people you don't trust.
Some people seem to keep ignoring this though....
Joslo wrote:
Something about no penalties for high-ranking Imperial officers with contraband seems wrong.
The penalties for Rebels look good to me though.
First - Everything about the changes is "ok", except for the fact that High Ranking Imperials can avoid all penalties. Just when did Darth Vader *ever* show compassion to another Imperial in the movies? He didn't. If they failed him, they were choked to death. I love the fact that this might force more Imps to be Overt, but I really disagree with how it's being done. They should at least have _some_ penalty, regardless of how small. Vader showed no compassion and neither should the scanning process (how severe should be dependent on your rank, the higher you are the lesser the penalty, but there should NOT be any "no penalties" as that is just stupid).
Secondly - The whole thing of Covert/Overt should be ENDED. If you are Imperial... you automatically should be OVERT 100% of the time, period. No questions about it. YOU are the enforcing law and therefore you should ALWAYS be Overt. A Covert Imperial should not exist in the Galaxy as there is NO SUCH THING anywhere in the books/movies of such a thing. All Rebels should be COVERT 100% of the time, period. No questions about it. As a Rebel, we are "rebelling" against an "oppressive" regime. Our attacks/raids/uprisings against Imperials should be a SURPRISE... hence the reason of a rebellion. We aren't going to send up flares, we aren't going to run around with a banner saying... HEREI AM! No, that is not how the Rebels worked in the movies/books. We should be a total surprise to the acting, enforcing LAW (Imperial) - unless we are some how found out (i.e. like on Hoth) - this would be your "TEF" system in play. So as a Covert Rebel (which if you choose Rebel you would always be), you should be able to attack any and all Imperials (since they will always be Overt - as there is no such thing as a Covert Imp). With the increased "patrol" of NPC Stormtroopers... they should be no problem, as they can assist in any "surprise attacks" from the Rebellion. The only time there should be *DEFINED* Rebels outside of the TEF system is on a Battlefield, in which the sides are clearly defined (i.e. The Battle of Hoth, the sides were pretty obvious who was who).
If you want this game to be true to the movies/books... then these changes NEED TO BE MADE! If you want Star Warsy... this is it! COVERT REBELS vs. OVERT IMPERIALS - 100% of the time. PERIOD.
My two credits on this:
1) To the "saluting is a penalty?" remark? Ever hear the phrase "sniper check"? In real life, troops in the field do not salute officers because that identifies the officer to any enemy snipers that might be watching. So fine, give Covert Imperial officers a TEF when the trooper salutes them. I am fine with that.
2) To the "gestapo" remark: Here's how an officer in real life "pulls rank". If I am a higher ranking officer and I give an order to a subordinate, he is required to obey it unless I am also subordinate to the person who has issued him an order which contradicts mine.
The Emperor is the commander-in-chief of the Imperial Forces, obviously. His order is that his troops show proper respect to their superiors - they should not be hassling Imperial officers, they should be searching for Rebel terrorists.
Everyone knows that insubordination is not treated lightly in the Empire. So the troops do as they were told.
3) To the claims that Imperials with contraband should be treated the same as Rebels: What's illegal for the general public is not necessarily so to the legitimate armed forces.
Tank crews in Desert Storm typically removed the governor on their tanks to gain greater speed, Not one was shot.
Armor piercing ammunition is illegal for civilians, but obviously not so for law enforcement or military use.
It's not a "double standard", it's a standard!
I think that overall it sounds like this will be implemented well, though I also agree that Devs should not penalize people for sliced items unless we can tell that it's sliced. There's no reason an NPC should be able to detect what we cannot. Add that and the TEF when saluted and it's good to go IMO.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Try again. It's the fact imperials are better at hiding contraband on themselves than a master smuggler would be.
Cafa wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Cry4Dawn wrote:
Ok, so if I am an Imperial Col. With Sliced Storm Trooper armor ON and a Sliced FWG5, Does this mean I WONT be scanned or EVER becaught, meaning Fined, Lose FP, or charged ever? So as an Imperial I go scott free and basically play as I am now using Contraband items?
Yup.
While a master Smuggler would have a 95% chance, while you have a 100% chance.
That ain't right.
Gives you a real easy choice. Go imp if you want the benefit! Woot!
The only reason it aint "RIGHT" is for once rebels can't exploit the system, as was the norm.
Cafa Asia
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
The Definition of a Smuggler:
According to Merriam-Webster, to smuggle is by definition:
To import or export secretly contrary to the law and especially without paying duties imposed by law
What does this mean a Smuggler does?
This means, a smuggler transports goods, of a restricted nature, from one place, to another, against the will of the powers in-control at that location. Materials such as guns, drugs or even other people were shipped around.
These jobs could be classified as being of a Fed-Ex nature, but illegal in the eyes of some authorities. Delivery jobs with a dangerous consequence if their actions are discovered.
By running blockades or just getting from one part of the city to another, the nature of the job remains the same. To get from Point-A to Point-B without being caught with what is in your possession.
That is the core of what a smuggler does, and should be the basis of what our profession does in this game.
Many Smugglers in our community have pushed for changes to enable something of this nature in the game. We have had hopes that certain items, that would be deemed critical to the general well-being of all players, should be only moved from one location to another by a player with smuggler skills. By doing this, they would make the smuggler a necessary and vital profession in the game.
The Imperial benefits of High rank as per the Developers post?
As their current system details, imperial officers of a high enough rank, are not subject to penalties or inspections of their possessions, let alone their drug intake.
While many imperial officers were corrupt in the view of all, they did at least make the attempt at keeping their activities secret in fear of being punished. There is ample evidence of this throughout the novels based in the Star Wars Universe. This has me believe that there were organizations within the Imperial forces that sought out and dealt with corrupt members of their forces in a harsh manner, or else there would have been no need for this apparent secrecy.
To bring up the Emperor or Darth Vader is folly, as they were not given to indulging in the pleasures that would be considered illegal. They were also at the very head of the organization and accountable to no one save themselves. The officers in this game are not even close to the power and influence wielded by one such as Vader let alone the Emperor himself.
The Empire was a regime dictated by a cruel dictator in the form of Emperor Palpatine. His ironfisted control of the systems he ruled over caused civil unrest in the populace, and is part of the reason why the Rebellion came into existence. If he were a benevolent, forgiving ruler, this would very likely never have happened.
He ruled the galaxy with outright power and the use of fear in the populace to keep them under control. His brutal and straightforward use of that power was used and possibly magnified by those under his control. To oppose it was an act of desperation, and at extreme risk.
What he dictated was to be obeyed by all, especially those who served under him. For by serving him and not themselves, he exercised his control of the stars systems. Fear kept most of his officers on the straight and narrow, for they never knew who would be reporting to someone who could punish them for their misdeeds.
To have all members of a certain rank or higher, exempt from punishment or inspection is not accurate, nor is it good for the smuggler profession as a whole.
Why is the exemption of high ranking Imperial officers a bad thing for the Smuggler profession?
As the system has it currently, with the no accountability of the officers with enough rank, they are free to transport any good they see fit, without penalty, or risk.
What Smugglers have spent many skill points on is now negated by an imperial with high enough rank, and is even more successful at preventing any penalty, than a master smuggler who has spent over 60 skill points to supposedly be the best there is at that job.
As we have previously established, smugglers would be the people you would contact to get illegal/restricted materials from one point, to another, while avoiding the hostiles/authorities. So, Point A to Point B fed-ex, with cops trying to gun you down.
This is vital as it is the exact meaning of what a smuggler is. It does not by definition mean a corrupt officer.
Imperials of a higher rank are not subject to being scanned for contraband. They can travel from Point A to Point B without interference or penalty. To deliver goods, anything they wish. They are smuggling as they are getting to these locations with contraband materials, yet are not spending the skill points to be considered a smuggler.
This is a direct attack against what a smuggler stands for. These imperials are directly negating the very purpose of what our smuggler does as a profession. Any Imperial who is of decent rank will never have to worry about being inspected for their entire career. A 100% chance at perhaps even a rank of Warrant Officer. We don't know the specifics yet. Any player, who achieves this, will be able to move their illegal possessions, anywhere they wish, without fear. They could even transport anyone else’s possessions for that matter.
They will still have all the skill points that they originally possessed. Not having to change their profession, or adjust their play-style. They are smugglers in this game, without paying the price of skill points.
What this means for the Smuggler’s future as a profession?
When I became a smuggler, I hoped to be able to smuggle illegal minerals, weapons, and products from one place to another. Players would hire me because I or any other smuggler had a great chance of getting it there intact, where they would be jailed, fined or even shot in the head if they even attempted.
I would hope to be hired, and do missions. I could do this, because I spent the time, effort and skill points to be able to do this. This is the very skill that is central to the definition of our profession.
This would make me a smuggler!
If they were to implement this as it stands, any Imperial officer with sufficient rank could fill in at this capacity as far as their own possessions are concerned or their friends. They would be able to move those same materials from one location to another without risk or the need for a smuggler. The very defining skill of a profession, nearly completely negated by the rank of a member of a GCW faction is ridiculous.
To have the system implemented in this fashion limits our possible missions and even our chance to actually smuggle within this game.
Well what about the group protections the smuggler is granted? Isn’t that good?
As high rank imperials are not subject to scans, I do not see why member of the Empire would not raise their faction in order to avoid them. To not do so would be baffling.
So all Imperials are very possibly protected from these scans.
Neutrals receive no loss save a hit to their Imperial faction. This is not a severe penalty, and I don’t see many neutrals caring as they are, well, neutral.
Rebels are given a TEF, and are forced into combat upon being discovered. There is a chance using a smuggler would be useful here for the group protection to prevent combat. However, these are rebels, to fight the empire is a normal course of action and a fight is not reason enough to have a smuggler included in ones group as all they do is get a fight they could easily flee from in most situations. Most smugglers do not consider baby-sitting a group of rebels as a valid reason to have this skill. Its usefulness is very limited as it is.
The frequency of these scans is also of concern. On test center – Bria I have logged over 20 hours in search of these patrols. Finding only the harassment patrols in the Cantinas, but never finding ones outside cities on the outskirts of civilization.
The rarity of these scans further diminishes the penalties imposed upon those who are not of Imperial alignment and further reduces the smugglers use in a group. To even begin to justify our inclusion in a group for this skill set, the penalty would have to be more severe, and these scans take place MUCH more often.
I still don’t understand what you are saying, why are you making such a big fuss over it?
I hope this has helped to explain why I at least have issues with the system as it stands. If you still do not understand, I suggest reading many of the other posts presented by other fellow smugglers to help you understand the issues that this raises. I believe that if we do not stand against this change now, we will have it implemented and no amount of convincing on our point after this will change the developers’ minds in what they have already put out. Other future changes for the benefit of our profession will be influenced by this ability I believe, and if we do not get it implemented right the first time, our dreams of actually having a good environment to smuggle in will be for naught. To have to wait till an expansion to get our class to do what it should be doing by definition should not be acceptable. Whether you travel between planets or between cities, smuggling is still fed-ex, but with more risk involved.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
3) To the claims that Imperials with contraband should be treated the same as Rebels: What's illegal for the general public is not necessarily so to the legitimate armed forces.
Tank crews in Desert Storm typically removed the governor on their tanks to gain greater speed, Not one was shot.
Armor piercing ammunition is illegal for civilians, but obviously not so for law enforcement or military use.
It's not a "double standard", it's a standard!
If it's a standard, then why are these services provided by criminals?
Why can't the Empire itself provide for their troops if this is government standard?
Why aren't serious boosts offered to the troops when you sign up or go Overt?
To all the Imps out there that support the idea of turning a reb "overt" not TEF on a succesfull scan because it, has a more "Star Warsy feel" then should equally support all IMPS being Overt all the time no covert, for the same reason. If you want to be the enforcers of justice then "walk a beat" so to speak. We should also change it so that a covert reb can attack a imp at will, TEF or not. Just as rebels in france during WWII did, and many other times in history the rebels, which ever side, would sneek in a town and then pounce on the soliders in a suprise attack, this would be more in keeping with a "Star Warsy feel". Then after an attack a Reb would be overt untill they hit up a recruiter to "get them new papers". It seems that both sides want what is in their best interest and to have an advantage, without being willing to make it more fair to everyone and more realistic. To be fair and fully disclose my position, I am a part time Reb, mainly to have some fun with stormtroopers, but will be going neutral soon, since I dont PVP much.
Gil